Did you cut or harm yourself?

In the good movie "Secretary", a young woman is initially shown leaving an institution where she was treated for a number problems, including cutting herself with various knives, blades, etc. Also piercing and burning, to some degree.

She, in the course of the movie 'comes out' as a bottom or perhaps 'sub', but a pretty willful one. She enjoys spankings especially, also humiliation, and certain kinds of rough sex.

Question: for those who are bottoms or subs, is there 'cutting' in your history? other self injury, e.g., piercing or burning? (Let's assume that it's done either to bring peace to oneself [=relieve extreme anxiety] and/or for erotic reasons.) I also mean something LESS than (other than) actual suicide attempt, e.g., by slitting your wrists.

Further, the movie shows that for this woman, submission takes the place of cutting, as perhaps a healthier alternative: i.e., she ends that injurious practice, in taking up erotic submission, e.g. the spankings etc. (Her 'master' tells her to stop cutting, and she does. She is ready to.) If you care to say, did you end your cutting or whatever as you undertook SM bottoming or subbing?

Corrected: Are the screenplay writers onto something--in your direct experience-- or have they unduly 'pathologized' those who submit?

Reference added: Secretary: The Screenplay by Erin Cressida Wilson, Steven Shainberg (Paperback). Originally a short story, "Secretary" by M Gaitskill, in the collection Bad Behavior. James G 5 informs me that the cutting is not a part of Gaitskill's original story.


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Best,

J.

My flatmate cut himself plumbing in a new tub this morning. Does that count?

Yup, I used to cut.. but more often than I cut, I used to stick pins into myself. I'd put them in, and leave them there for a few hours, pushed as far as they could go. Incredibly painful, and rather dangerous, but I didn't care. I did it to relieve tension, and as a way to express to myself how much I hated myself. I really truly hated myself. Everything about me.

I stopped that practice about 4 years before I discovered that I was submissive, and I don't believe that it had anything to do with it. I mean, I've been through a lot of self-abuse, and I don't feel that BDSM in any way fills that headspace that I had when I was cutting, etc... I no longer HAVE that headspace. BDSM for me was something completely different, which I believe stemmed from the rapes that I've experienced. It stemmed from abuse that other people inflicted on me, but BDSM is a way for me to experience roughness and some physical pain, WHILE I HAVE THE CONTROL. It's completely different than my cutting was.

Nope.
I never was a cutter.

Yes, I do believe that to some degree, the story line is misleading and contributes to those who assume that one must have been abused or be mentally unwell to submit.

And no, you cannot post as unregistered anymore. So, if you want an anonymous head count, you could do a poll.

Hi Pure,

To your poll. Piercing and burning, yes. Cutting, no. The ideas came from some stories with eroticized piercing. At first it was more functional. Put a needle through to be able to twist it or pull it using the needle (pulling on both ends). Later practices were more painful. Longer needles into the breast and 5-10 through the nipple at different angles. In fact, some of the shallow piercings are more painful that deeper ones.

The aim, relief of unbearable tension.

As to the second question, the nipple mistreatment carried through to my first dominant partner, who would take a pair of pliers to the nipple while commanding masturbation. And other methods were concieved.

So I don't really think, in my case, that so called masachism or submission 'cured' the earlier preference, though it reduced it. No dominant partner ever inflicted the degree of pain I had, yet the effects, in eroticism, were still quite powerful.

No I have not been institutionalized. Remained socially and sexually functional, though often with paid partners. The movie, from what you say goes way too far in making the bottom a recovering person from serious mental illness. I don't consider even the early extreme pain preference as 'mental illness' since I functioned and my life was not emperilled.

I would like to note that the cutting aspect was not part of the original story
The woman who adapted the story in to a movie script (not the original author) added that element, as she (the scriptwriter) had an issue finding the charachter believeable unless she could add additional pathology to her. That is to say, she thought someone would have to be REALLY messed up to want to live as a submissive/slave.
I've known a lot of people (women especially) who cut and have seen very few of them move in to D/s.

No, no cutting in my history, and no other self injury, e.g., piercing or burning.

It was an interesting point, as that was one of the questions the two people I saw the movie with asked me afterwards - seeing the two (submission and self-injury) as perhaps related after viewing the film.

That explains a lot!

James G 5 said:

I would like to note that the cutting aspect was not part of the original story
The woman who adapted the story in to a movie script (not the original author) added that element, as she (the scriptwriter) had an issue finding the charachter believeable unless she could add additional pathology to her. That is to say, she thought someone would have to be REALLY messed up to want to live as a submissive/slave.
I've known a lot of people (women especially) who cut and have seen very few of them move in to D/s.

Click to expand...

Another closed minded view of BDSM.



As some have already pointed out, even if they did cut, it may simply be an entirely separate issue from their BDSM. Many cutters suffer from depression. Cutting releases seratonin, thereby helping them to feel better.

Could some BDSM practices do the same? I expect so. However, any one facing issues such as depression or untreated abuse issues should stay away from BDSM until they have resolved these issues. BDSM is not therapy and should never be used as such.

Offering yourself to another needs to happen when the gift is whole or unbroken. Otherwise, what kind of gift are you giving?

I have meet women who cutt
as has been posted it has been as a way
to relieve tension and/or to take self control

Few of these women have come over to BDSM
but prehaps the right whatever has not presented
it's self

Thanks for the tip, James G 5. Thanks also, Lark Sparrow.




Maybe you can specify the main diffs of story and screenplay?? {This does ring a bell as far as some other movies, I can't recall the names, where changes in the 'mental status' department were made to make the story 'believable', which may be simply 'palatable.'}

Note to James and Richard: It's a separate question whether many or some or very few cutters become 'subs'. I assume it's not 'many', since 'cutting' is not an uncommon symptom of distress. My question is, how many now self-identifying 'subs' or 'bottoms' in SM have cutting in their background.

Maybe this thread will help answer the question.

Thanks Pure... you can always be counted on to provide the most thought provoking topics.

I was never a cutter, although I know several subs/bottoms who were and are cutters, but as was stated cutting is a separate issue from BDSM.

I spent 8 years as a psychiatric case worker either in a hospital or clinic setting. I have had many cutters that I have dealt with over the years.

I think most will tell you that cutting is first and foremost a way of dealing with stresses in their lives and secondly, it is a way to control one area of their lives when all the other areas are out of their control.

Much like bulemics/anorexics who control the food to feel in control of their lives, cutting is simply another manesfestation of that syndrome. Most fall into a certain personality type.

Are there more cutters in the BDSM community? Or does this translate to a greater attraction due to their mashocistic needs? I would tend to think that it might seem so only because of the small numbers of people involved in the lifestyle as opposed to the general population. I also think that there may be a gravitational pull towards BDSM because of the acceptance of certain practises, ie play piercing, knife play, blood play. Then too there is the acceptance factor in general where the cutting is no longer taboo.

And too, the need to please the Dom/me/top removes somewhat the need to control the environment or their situation. The Dom/me/top is now in charge of them and their needs.

i was a cutter and this subject has been disscussed before, in an earlier thread myself and a couple other cutters opened ourselves up. i suggest you do a search for the threads

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87599&highlight=cutter

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119234&highlight=cutter

Thanks lilredwolph,

as regards,

https://forum.literotica.com/...ighlight=cutter

It's a good thread, though it got a bit heated.

I should remember since I contributed--to the thread and the heat . For readers ref. it contain an exchange on the pathology of cutting, and/or bdsm between me and KillerMuffin, which was rather hostile on my part. For that I apologized. KM, as a person, is to be respected. That said, I disagreed --and still do-- with the assumptions (about cutting and about bdsm and their possible relationship) and line of thought she appeared to be taking.

I do not feel the topic is exhausted, or that possible connections of cutting history in SM folks can be dismissed as irrelevant pathology-- It's not an analogous situation to the fact that some SM folks have a history of asthma.

"pure"

I was too afraid of pain to actually do something potentially dangerous and permanent, like cut or pierce or burn. I scratched pretty hard, though. It all came from a sense of worthlessness that ate up many days per month per year of my high school life. Dunno why it seemed like a good idea to change that pain into a physical medium--I'd probably heard that that's what people did and so I did it. Not terribly original.

It "changed" without a D/s context. Translation: I hid from it as soon as I could find someone to affirm my own self-worth. The source of that suffering has not gone away and does affect my relationship with T. Working on it. o)

Hey, Doms can cut too, you know?!? Of course, in my case, it was more ritual body modification than anything else, plus some sugeries that I was too cheap to pay a doctor for...

I have never done any kind of cutting, burning or other self-mutilation except during a short period in high school when there was this bizarre little fad going around where you would take an eraser (like on a pencil) and "erase" on your arm (or elsewhere) until you couldn't take it anymore...it was more of a competitive thing tho..absolutely no sexual or mental implications...just who could stand the pain longer...especially when the skin was really coming off...

For me...the pain isn't the issue...it's the mental head game that I enjoy...pain...just adds to it...but i have never practiced it on myself as an outlet or release from anything else occurring in my life.

Johnny Mayberry said:

plus some sugeries that I was too cheap to pay a doctor for...

Click to expand...

setting here shacking my head

I have my van and a rusty saw

i am a sub, and yes, ive done some cutting, my partner at the time did as well, and he is switch. thats both us cutting ourselves, and us cutting each other. no burning, no real self injury, other than me being so damned clumsy...
i should also note that the cutting was not major cuts, nothing requiring stitches, although he'd cut himself to that point before.

Richard49 said:

setting here shacking my head

I have my van and a rusty saw

Click to expand...

Seriously, I have an ungodly high pain threshold, and when I got someting that needed to be cut out, I would just do it. I little alcohol, alot of bandages...which is where I started cutting designs on myself, simply because i COULD.

Pure said:

Note to James and Richard: It's a separate question whether many or some or very few cutters become 'subs'. I assume it's not 'many', since 'cutting' is not an uncommon symptom of distress. My question is, how many now self-identifying 'subs' or 'bottoms' in SM have cutting in their background.

Maybe this thread will help answer the question.

Click to expand...

How do you evaluate how common "cutting" is to those in distress?

I have to say, cutting may seem more prevalent now than before, but that may simply be that people are more free to be open abou their mental health issues or backgrounds than say, 20 years ago.

Cutting is not common as an avenue to alleviate general, situational distress. There are certain disorders and conditions for which cutting may be a symptom.

I know I know...off topic, but please clarify your statement. You know how fussy I am about generalizations

Now, BDSM practitioners are, in my own experience, a rainbow of people from all walks of life and with all varieties of backgrounds and histories. As such, there will be cutters, abuse victims and a few others that fit society's M.O. concerning the lifestyle. Just as there are likely to be some cutters, abuse victims etc who are law enforcement officers, mental health counselors, teachers, stay at home moms etc.....

And Doms! Yes, Johnny, thank you for making that point. There may even be some Doms with cutting as part of their background, for whatever reason. You know they are a bunch of tuffies!

Just saw the movie last night and am currently writing a review for Lit. (Just a hint: it won't be a good review.)

Funny thing was, when I woke up this morning, that was the one major issue I had with the movie - the idea that this woman was nuts, crazy, over the edge. The movie defintely connected BDSM to self-mutiliation, and possibly over pyschological disorders. I haven't read the short story, but a lot of people are visual, and this will influence minds. A pity the movie was made as it was.

Oh, and just to stay on topic - I have never been a "cutter". I've never engaged in any form of self-mutliation whatsoever. I don't understand it. I don't "get it".

Nope. I never cut or injured myself in any way. Like everyone else that has posted, I've known people who did that and have certainly had a few as patients at work.

MissTaken said:

How do you evaluate how common "cutting" is to those in distress?

I have to say, cutting may seem more prevalent now than before, but that may simply be that people are more free to be open abou their mental health issues or backgrounds than say, 20 years ago.

Cutting is not common as an avenue to alleviate general, situational distress. There are certain disorders and conditions for which cutting may be a symptom.

I know I know...off topic, but please clarify your statement. You know how fussy I am about generalizations

Now, BDSM practitioners are, in my own experience, a rainbow of people from all walks of life and with all varieties of backgrounds and histories. As such, there will be cutters, abuse victims and a few others that fit society's M.O. concerning the lifestyle. Just as there are likely to be some cutters, abuse victims etc who are law enforcement officers, mental health counselors, teachers, stay at home moms etc.....

And Doms! Yes, Johnny, thank you for making that point. There may even be some Doms with cutting as part of their background, for whatever reason. You know they are a bunch of tuffies!

Click to expand...

Thank you for this post.

I am rather disturbed with the hostility towards the idea of cutting that many people have displayed. Do you not realize that for many of us, self-mutilation was part of our path to this lifestyle? By making the comment that including cutting in this fairly landmark mvie is somehow illegitimate, you likely make some of us feel like our experiences are somehow invalid.

Johnny Mayberry said:

Thank you for this post.

I am rather disturbed with the hostility towards the idea of cutting that many people have displayed. Do you not realize that for many of us, self-mutilation was part of our path to this lifestyle? By making the comment that including cutting in this fairly landmark mvie is somehow illegitimate, you likely make some of us feel like our experiences are somehow invalid.

Click to expand...

I don't think the hostility is towards cutting per se, but towards the perception that the movie suggests that to be a willing sub one must already have some abnormal pathology as indicated in this case, by cutting among other symptoms, and for which pains were taken to demonstrate that psychiatric treatment was required and administered.

So I don't think you need feel the value of your experiences has been vitiated. You may, on the other hand, choose to become indignant over the inference that cutting is an abnormal pathology in all cases; a conjecture which you seem to feel your experience disproves and in which, I gather, you are far from alone in holding.

Johnny Mayberry said:

Thank you for this post.

I am rather disturbed with the hostility towards the idea of cutting that many people have displayed. Do you not realize that for many of us, self-mutilation was part of our path to this lifestyle? By making the comment that including cutting in this fairly landmark mvie is somehow illegitimate, you likely make some of us feel like our experiences are somehow invalid.

Click to expand...

For many cutting has been part of their journey, but for many it hasn't.

My hostility isn't toward cutting, rather, it is toward any generalization that seeks to figure out whey we do what we do. We each do what we do because we are hard wired to do so...not all are cutters, not all are abuse victims, not all are insecure women who need men to dictate to them, not all Doms have egocentric, attitude problems....do you see where I am going?

As for my clinical perspective, it is mine. Each of us come here with a different perspective and since mine is social work....that is what I bring to you. Yours is different and adds to the rainbow of BDSM discussion.

I keep coming back to the word rainbow....hmmm sounds lovely, no?

Heck, if cutting is an issue, how many kids haven't taken a pin or needle to slip it under the first couple of layers of skin? Does that count?