closed Thread

[butters]

Press Freedom Groups Urge Biden To Demand Israel Allow Media Access In Gaza

with over 128 journos killed, with another source placing that closer to 170, since Oct 7th's terrorist attack, Gaza has become the most dangerous place to be a journalist in the world.

At least 18 press freedom and human rights groups expressed their support on Monday for a congressional letter urging the Biden administration to demand that Israel allow independent access into Gaza for U.S. and international journalists.
The statement of support was published by the Committee to Protect Journalists, a media watchdog that has been tracking the historic number of journalist casualties resulting from Israel’s ongoing decimation of Gaza. Since the invasion, Israeli forces have blocked foreign media from being able to independently access the Palestinian territory.

“While more than 4,000 international journalists have traveled to Israel to cover the ongoing war, Israel continues to deny them access to Gaza except for rare and tightly controlled military-led press tours to the war-torn territory,” the statement reads. “This effective ban on foreign reporting has placed an impossible and unreasonable burden on Palestinian reporters in Gaza to document an ongoing war through which they are living.”

The Palestinian Journalists Syndicate places the number at 167 killed, thousands more injured, and at least 124 facing abuse and torture in the Israeli military’s shadowy prisons.

i'm sure there will be posters here who will dismiss that number as untrustworthy. Is the number put forward by the CPJ any moreso? That is 'the Committee to Protect Journalists', a 'media watchdog that has been tracking the historic number of journalist casualties resulting from Israel’s ongoing decimation of Gaza.'

More than 128 journalists have been killed since Oct. 7, 2023, according to CPJ

and before anyone states the obvious, of course hamas should agree to reporters seeing the hostages and aid workers bringing them some relief... but then again hamas are supposed to be the only terrorists of the two and so it's expected they'll not conform

 

[Lazaran]

Press Freedom Groups Urge Biden To Demand Israel Allow Media Access In Gaza

with over 128 journos killed, with another source placing that closer to 170, since Oct 7th's terrorist attack, Gaza has become the most dangerous place to be a journalist in the world.






i'm sure there will be posters here who will dismiss that number as untrustworthy. Is the number put forward by the CPJ any moreso? That is 'the Committee to Protect Journalists', a 'media watchdog that has been tracking the historic number of journalist casualties resulting from Israel’s ongoing decimation of Gaza.'


and before anyone states the obvious, of course hamas should agree to reporters seeing the hostages and aid workers bringing them some relief... but then again hamas are supposed to be the only terrorists of the two and so it's expected they'll not conform

Any true journalist that went into Gaza and tried to report independently and honestly would be taken hostage or killed by Hamas. (If killed by Hamas, the journalist’s death would be blamed on Israel.)

It can be definitely stated that the only journalists who can operate in Gaza, are sympathetic to, or affiliated with, Hamas - just like in Russia, China, Iran, etc.

 

[Hel_Books]

President Biden is for all intents and purposes a lame duck president, he will suffer no political repercussions if he chooses to enforce his dictates upon the country of Israel. You are correct, we will have a new president come next January, and that president can choose a policy of her liking.

You are also correct, America has "drawn a bright line in the sand before" with other countries and not followed through, but they have lacked the ability to back up their demands without committing US troops and have been hesitant to do so.

The United States, however, possesses unpareralled leverage with Israel: Without United States backing, Israel as a country would soon cease to exist. The American pipeline feeds the Israeli war machine.

The Israeli military policy of the past year in Gaza appears to have been to first and foremost, minimize Israeli casualties, and secondly, kill as many Gazan civilians as possible to try to force the nebulous "Hamas" to surrender.

This is contrary to all rules of war, and exposes a horrific moral blind spot in the Israeli populace. Israel is content to drop American munitions on schools, mosques and hospitals from 20,000 feet in the air on a near-daily basis with no real danger of Gazan reprisal.

Evidently the Israeli government decision to starve all Gazans in the northern half of Gaza was too much for even the Americans to overlook. I believe the Israelis were counting on American obsession with the upcoming presidential election to ramp up their cruelty and count on the American public not noticing.

Deprived of American largesse, Israel would have to commit large quantities of ground troops to do actual fighting. Committing Israeli ground troops is deeply unpopular with the Israel populace.

No reasonable person thinks that the American deadline will stop Gazans and Israelis from killing each other, this is not at issue right now. The issue is minimizing civilian casualties. Virtually the entire world stands united against Israel (the United States being the last belated country to join) to condemn the indefensible killing of tens of thousands of civilians in Gaza.

This is not so much a "war" as a "continual war crime", and America has taken positive steps towards stopping this criminal activity.

Perhaps.

But the allies in WWII were perfectly content to drop lots of bombs on Germans and Italians and Japanese (not to mention Romanians, occupied French territory, etc.) in pursuing the objective of the defeat of their enemy. Is this in any way different?

True, the Americans do possess "leverage" in the sense that they could cut off aid to the Israelis, just as the Iranians possess "leverage" in that they could withdraw their support of terrorist groups. Also, the Americans have in the past withdrawn their support. President Eisenhower did so during the Suez crisis, for example.

However, we mustn't forget that in this case the people the Israelis are fighting are people who danced in the streets to celebrate the 11 September massacres in New York and Washington and who killed something in the neighbourhood of three dozen American citizens on October 7 and still hold American citizens hostage.

I certainly hope the Americans (whoever happens to be in charge when the 30 day deadline expires) will be able to convince the Israelis to declare victory and convince Hamas and Hizbullah to stop shooting, through the application of "leverage" or whatever means are necessary.

But I think it unlikely.

 

[lessOHmo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848715891187335276

 

[deckardB26354]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848715891187335276

Was it Trump Water?

 

[Rightguide]

DEI strikes again. I immediately thought about this person when the leak of Israeli war plans was announced. I mentioned her some months back:

Pentagon Employee Suspected of Leaking Retaliation Plans to Iran​

By
David Israel

October 22, 2024

https://www.jewishpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/A-Pentagon-official-accused-Ariane-Tabatabai-an-assistant-to-Secretary-of-Defense-Lloyd-Austin-of-leaking-top-secret-documents-to-Iran..jpg

A Pentagon official told Sky News in Arabic that the investigation being conducted by intelligence agencies in Washington into the leaking to Tehran documents of the IDF plan to strike Iran has begun to indicate “suspicion” of the involvement of a senior employee in the Pentagon.

The American official added that the employee suspected of leaking the documents is an American of Iranian origin named Ariane Tabatabai.

Ariane Tabatabai is an Iranian-American scholar of political science, writer, and senior policy advisor to the United States Department of Defense. After the Biden administration took office in January 2021, she joined the US negotiating team in nuclear negotiations with Iran. Between 2021 and 2022, she served as an advisor to Robert Malley, the chief promoter of pushing a deal with Iran at any cost.

Members of the US Congress, especially Republicans, have pointed out that Robert Malley was investigated after being suspected of having dealt with classified information without prior permission and of having secret contacts with Iranian figures.

More here: https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us...leaking-retaliation-plans-to-iran/2024/10/22/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848726428721803670

last year there was an article about how Iranian spy Robert Malley helped to infiltrate her into high office in the Pentagon. His efforts have now come home to roost. Biden was warned and he did nothing.

High-Level Iranian Spy Ring Busted in Washington​

The trail that leads from Tehran to D.C. passes directly through the offices of Robert Malley and the International Crisis Group​

by
Lee Smith
October 01, 2023


The Biden administration’s now-suspended Iran envoy Robert Malley helped to fund, support, and direct an Iranian intelligence operation designed to influence the United States and allied governments, according to a trove of purloined Iranian government emails. The emails, which were reported on by veteran Wall Street Journal correspondent Jay Solomon, writing in Semafor, and by Iran International, the London-based émigré opposition outlet which is the most widely read independent news source inside Iran, were published last week after being extensively verified over a period of several months by the two outlets. They showed that Malley had helped to infiltrate an Iranian agent of influence named Ariane Tabatabai into some of the most sensitive positions in the U.S. government—first at the State Department and now the Pentagon, where she has been serving as chief of staff for the assistant secretary of defense for special operations, Christopher Maier.

On Thursday, Maier told a congressional committee that the Defense Department is “actively looking into whether all law and policy was properly followed in granting my chief of staff top secret special compartmented information.”

The emails, which were exchanged over a period of several years between Iranian regime diplomats and analysts, show that Tabatabai was part of a regime propaganda unit set up in 2014 by the Iranian Foreign Ministry. The Iran Experts Initiative (IEI) tasked operatives drawn from Iranian diaspora communities to promote Iranian interests during the clerical regime’s negotiations with the United States over its nuclear weapons program. Though several of the IEI operatives and others named in the emails have sought to portray themselves on social media as having engaged with the regime in their capacity as academic experts, or in order to promote better understanding between the United States and Iran, none has questioned the veracity of the emails.

The contents of the emails are damning, showing a group of Iranian American academics being recruited by the Iranian regime, meeting together in foreign countries to receive instructions from top regime officials, and pledging their personal loyalty to the regime. They also show how these operatives used their Iranian heritage and Western academic positions to influence U.S. policy toward Iran, first as outside “experts” and then from high-level U.S. government posts. Both inside and outside of government, the efforts of members of this circle were repeatedly supported and advanced by Malley, who served as the U.S. government’s chief interlocutor with Iran under both the Obama and the Biden administrations. Malley is also the former head of the International Crisis Group (ICG), which directly paid and credentialed several key members of the regime’s influence operation.

More here: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/iran-spy-ring-robert-malley-lee-smith

Lloyd Austin needs to be fired as well.

 

[Politruk]

So what? If the Israelis have some insane plan to attack Iran, leaking the attack plan averts a war the world cannot afford.

 

[butters]

I certainly hope the Americans (whoever happens to be in charge when the 30 day deadline expires) will be able to convince the Israelis to declare victory and convince Hamas and Hizbullah to stop shooting, through the application of "leverage" or whatever means are necessary.

But I think it unlikely.

we can hope but i don't see it happening

 

[Rightguide]

So what? If the Israelis have some insane plan to attack Iran, leaking the attack plan averts a war the world cannot afford.

You're a dumb SOB, aren't you? The leak means the enemy is in our government. It isn't going to protect Iran. It attacks American trust in the eyes of our allies. Iran will be hit and its leadership toppled only we won't know about it until "after" it happens.

​

 

[Politruk]

Iran will be hit and its leadership toppled

​

Not if they know the attack is coming, they won't. More importantly, the Israelis won't even mount the attack if they know the plan has been leaked.

 

[Rightguide]

Not if they know the attack is coming, they won't. More importantly, the Israelis won't even mount the attack if they know the plan has been leaked.

You are too naïve to comment on the subject. You need to put your emotions aside and view the issue dispassionately. The leak does not eliminate Israel's strategic problem of the regional snake that is funding all of the terror attacks against it. Two things have to happen. Iran needs to be hit very hard, enough to deter a response and it must leave Iran with the belief that a retaliatory strike against Israel will result in an even more catastrophic response. I think we'll see the IDF go after major military and national economic infrastructure and Iran's political leadership.

 

[lessOHmo]

 

[lessOHmo]

 

[Politruk]

Iran needs to be hit very hard

Absolutely NOT! No way that doesn't lead to a major war!

 

[lessOHmo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848402561247940869

 

[Lazaran]

You are too naïve to comment on the subject. You need to put your emotions aside and view the issue dispassionately. The leak does not eliminate Israel's strategic problem of the regional snake that is funding all of the terror attacks against it. Two things have to happen. Iran needs to be hit very hard, enough to deter a response and it must leave Iran with the belief that a retaliatory strike against Israel will result in an even more catastrophic response. I think we'll see the IDF go after major military and national economic infrastructure and Iran's political leadership.

So today the "republicans" are the "war party"???



"Right"guide

 

[RobDownSouth]

Perhaps.

But the allies in WWII were perfectly content to drop lots of bombs on Germans and Italians and Japanese (not to mention Romanians, occupied French territory, etc.) in pursuing the objective of the defeat of their enemy. Is this in any way different?

Yes, it's very very different.
Allies in World War 2 focused on defeating the Axis military, and to do so they had to cripple the industrial heart of the Axis powers, as well as destroying their transportation infrastructure. As far as humanly possible, they tried to minimize civilian casualties.

The Israeli military action appears to be to the opposite: maximize civilian casualties. They have been documented shooting aid workers, medical staff, and especially foreign journalists. They routinely bomb mosques, hospitals and refugee camps, under the blanket excuse of "well, we thought Hamas was hiding there".

However, we mustn't forget that in this case the people the Israelis are fighting are people who danced in the streets to celebrate the 11 September massacres in New York and Washington and who killed something in the neighbourhood of three dozen American citizens on October 7 and still hold American citizens hostage.

I certainly hope the Americans (whoever happens to be in charge when the 30 day deadline expires) will be able to convince the Israelis to declare victory and convince Hamas and Hizbullah to stop shooting, through the application of "leverage" or whatever means are necessary.

But I think it unlikely.

Why should we "mustn't forget"? 9/11 happened, and that was 22 years ago. Maybe half the Palestinians weren't even alive then. Is there a requirement to hold a grudge in perpetuity? Should Americans "never forget" that the dastardly British invaded us not once but twice? Hell, we were in an all out World War with Japan in 1944 and twenty years afterwards we sent a contingent of Olympic contestants to the 1964 Summer Olympics in Tokyo (we won 90 medals).

I am aware that Americans were killed on 10/7 and some are still being held hostage, as well as Israelis. I honestly don't give a damn about any of them anymore. The Israelis have extracted a blood toll of somewhere between 50:1 and 100:1 civilians-to-hostages depending on whose estimates you believe. That's a textbook example of a "war crime" n my mind, and as I've said before, we used to shoot Nazis for "disproportionate response" (i.e. "someone in the village shot a soldier....kill all the inhabitants to teach them a lesson".)

Like you, I hope Israel "bends the knee" to the United States' ultimatum. This carnage has gone on far too long. The fact that Israeli strongman Benjamin Netanyahu made a very public phone call to convicted felon Donald Trump, ostensibly to "ask for advice", was a fairly transparent political ploy to hopefully gin up support for the suddenly "beleagured Israelis", who face a real challenge of attempting to continue their military campaign with offensive weaponry. Trump's advice was a dogwhistle "Do what you gotta do, Bibi" Netanyahu will likely intervene publicly much more in the upcoming American elections, if Trump does not get elected, his options are limited.

I believe this is why Israel is ramping up attacks on other countries: Netanyahu has realized he has very little support amongst Jewish voters in the United States, so he want to antagonize Muslim voters in the United States as much as possible, hoping they will blame the Biden administration and throw there support behind Trump in protest.

 

[Lazaran]

I am aware that Americans were killed on 10/7 and some are still being held hostage, as well as Israelis. I honestly don't give a damn about any of them anymore.

That’s a perspective…



All objectivity lost, and surrendering to emotion…



Hamas has won in this case…



Sinwar may be proven right in suggesting that the new Hamas leadership shouldn’t compromise in the advent of his death because of his belief that the excessive death and destruction in Gaza (which Hamas helped facilitate) would primarily be blamed on the Israelis, and Hamas’ strategy would ultimately succeed thanks to the weakness of western emotionality…

Fuck that ^ !!!



At the end of this war, there can be no scenario where Hamas is in any position of power, and where any of Hamas’ demands are capitulated to. If the Israeli and American hostages are truly lost, then it is incumbent upon the free world and the rule of law to deny Hamas ANY measure (claim) of "victory".

 

[dmallord]

If you’d bother to read any of my posts about Israel (okay if you didn’t, but it makes me do more work), you’d see that I do not in fact hate Israel. What I hate is the fact that Israelis treat Palestinians with about as much respect as they treat Israelis—for the most part—but then you have these two fuckhead “governments” that make it all about annihilation (on both sides). The people that just want to live have their lives destroyed. Israelis are taught to hate Palestinians and vice versa.

Like I said before, this will not end until one side or the other is obliterated.

Sad that it would come to that.

Hamas instigated the current furor by killing Israeli civilians in an abhorrent manner. There seems to be no sanity over there, almost like looney people in America who believe Trump is a good person with a plan to make America great again. Making fries as a political stunt is evidence of that. Trump has no realistic plan for America; he is looking out for himself. Neither do the Hamas operatives have a plan to win the war. Just to fuel continuous warfare. Just hatred.

Do you recall the early videos and textbooks being shown that have math problems created by Hamas using death counts of Jews by young Palestinian kids armed with weapons? It was pure hatred being taught against Jews. Not math. No peace. Not sanity nor any sense of getting along with others. Just hate.

Yes, as Trump would say, good people died on both sides. More good than bad, it looks like, since not enough Hamas members are surrendering or dying to bring about peace.

 

[Hel_Books]

Yes, it's very very different.
Allies in World War 2 focused on defeating the Axis military, and to do so they had to cripple the industrial heart of the Axis powers, as well as destroying their transportation infrastructure. As far as humanly possible, they tried to minimize civilian casualties.

The Israeli military action appears to be to the opposite: maximize civilian casualties. They have been documented shooting aid workers, medical staff, and especially foreign journalists. They routinely bomb mosques, hospitals and refugee camps, under the blanket excuse of "well, we thought Hamas was hiding there".


Why should we "mustn't forget"? 9/11 happened, and that was 22 years ago. Maybe half the Palestinians weren't even alive then. Is there a requirement to hold a grudge in perpetuity? Should Americans "never forget" that the dastardly British invaded us not once but twice? Hell, we were in an all out World War with Japan in 1944 and twenty years afterwards we sent a contingent of Olympic contestants to the 1964 Summer Olympics in Tokyo (we won 90 medals).

I am aware that Americans were killed on 10/7 and some are still being held hostage, as well as Israelis. I honestly don't give a damn about any of them anymore. The Israelis have extracted a blood toll of somewhere between 50:1 and 100:1 civilians-to-hostages depending on whose estimates you believe. That's a textbook example of a "war crime" n my mind, and as I've said before, we used to shoot Nazis for "disproportionate response" (i.e. "someone in the village shot a soldier....kill all the inhabitants to teach them a lesson".)

Like you, I hope Israel "bends the knee" to the United States' ultimatum. This carnage has gone on far too long. The fact that Israeli strongman Benjamin Netanyahu made a very public phone call to convicted felon Donald Trump, ostensibly to "ask for advice", was a fairly transparent political ploy to hopefully gin up support for the suddenly "beleagured Israelis", who face a real challenge of attempting to continue their military campaign with offensive weaponry. Trump's advice was a dogwhistle "Do what you gotta do, Bibi" Netanyahu will likely intervene publicly much more in the upcoming American elections, if Trump does not get elected, his options are limited.

I believe this is why Israel is ramping up attacks on other countries: Netanyahu has realized he has very little support amongst Jewish voters in the United States, so he want to antagonize Muslim voters in the United States as much as possible, hoping they will blame the Biden administration and throw there support behind Trump in protest.

In WWII, even though the armed forces, soldiers, tanks and artillery were usually kept far from civilian areas (V2 rockets weren't launched from the front yards of churches in Berlin, for example) there was plenty of carnage that wasn't exclusively directed at military targets: high-altitude bombing with incendiaries, submarines sinking cargo ships. "scorched earth" tactics on the Russian front, the Dambusters Raid, etc.

As far as "holding a grudge in perpetuity" I wasn't making a statement as to whether or not they SHOULD hold a grudge (just as in the paragraph above I didn't comment on the effectiveness or morality of carpet bombing or unrestricted submarine warfare), I was addressing the question of what the American President would likely do and how Americans would view the issue.

Another thing to consider about Americans is the experience they've had in the past, from the Pueblo incident to the attack on the Teheran embassy to people like that basketballer Brittaney Griner snatched up by Putin, with their citizens being held hostage in an attempt to humiliate or extract a ransom. Even President Roosevelt (Theodore Roosevelt!) had to deal with this when three women (one pregnant) were abducted by Macedonian gunmen in the Ottoman Empire!

In their ordinary life you'll see this sort of thing too. If you've visited the country you'll notice their nightly news frequently has stories of someone "armed and barricaded in a home (or bank or workplace or school) holding hostages" with a list of demands. It's not a happy topic for them.

As for antagonizing Moslem voters in the US, I've read opinion pieces claiming they will turn on Vice President Harris because the American government support Israel. But do they seriously think Donald Trump would less supportive of Israel?

 

[RobDownSouth]

That’s a perspective…



All objectivity lost, and surrendering to emotion…

Five figure civilian death totals tend to wring the last bit of empathy out of a person.

 

[coati]

Living in a swing state, I now see even more commercials demonstrating the "religious-strong-man" political pact between Netanyahu and Trump.

The latest one came out yesterday. It shows three Jewish American women, identified as such by throwing in a few Yiddish expressions, saying that the Democrats are weak on defending Israel and Harris is too busy defending the Squad.

Their conclusion is that Trump is the only rational choice for President. This is what happens what happens when religious wars pervert the meaning of rationality.

We can see this perversion on Lit's PB. There are currently arguments being made over which religions in America and Israel have "smarter" people and should be allowed to dominate the political landscape.

Fuck this mixing of religion and governance. What we really need is freedom from religion.

 

[lessOHmo]

CamelHo hates jews n Israel

Fuck.het

 

[lessOHmo]

Yes, we are better n smarter then you

 

[coati]

Yes, we are better n smarter then you

And that must explain why you just incorrectly used the word "then".