Below the belt

[deckardB26354]

Many of them are Irish and some of rumored to be former IRA, which I have no idea if it’s true. Ireland does seem to hate Israel and the Ira was getting funding from Syria among other mid eastern groups.

Yes, everyone hates Israel. Thanks for reminding us.

 

[DukeofPaducah]

Yes, everyone hates Israel. Thanks for reminding us.

I don’t hate Israel. They’re just super scrappy
They like to yell! “Holocaust! Never again!” While they knock holy Hell out of everyone around them.
No negotiations required.

 

[deckardB26354]

Funny how that happens.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I know you don’t want to hear this. It doesn’t suit the narrative, but do you have a source as to when the fighting actually began?
The earliest I am aware of is in early Books of the Old Testament Bible.

Jacob was a son of Isaac, son of Abraham. Jacob had two wives who gave him 12 sons.
Jacob changed his name to Israel. Each son became the head of his descendants.

Moses led the Tribes out of bondage in Egypt and they wandered the Sinai desert for 40 years.
As they crossed occupied land, God told them to ask permission, if denied, to kill them all,
man, woman and child.
The pace quickened in the Book of Joshua when they crossed the Jordan River and leveled Jericho.

The Tribes of Israel continued to war on their neighbors with mixed success.
Here I found the first mention of conflict with Gaza. The occupants were called Philistines.

If you can predate this, I’m listening. If not, I believe Israel started it.
God told them to.

The Arabs first conquered Palestine in 650 CE, thousands of years after the Torah was written. The name Palestine dates to the earlier Roman conquest. Before that the land was called Judah or Israel. There is no evidence that today’s Palestinian Arabs are descended from the ancient Philistines. However, we do know the modern Israelis are descended from the ancient Jews. They have the same religion, speak the same language, and use the same writing system.

 

[ChloeTzang]

New York Times blatantly publishing false news yet again. Why anyone ever treats this rag as a reliable news sources after crap like this beats the heck out of me,

Read the linked-to article. The New York Times appears to have published completely fake news in order to falsely accuse the IDF of committing war crimes and shooting children “at point blank range” which Gazan and foreign medics testify they witnessed. The only problem with this is the “evidence” provided by those same “experts” appears, according to analysis from numerous ballistics experts, radiologists, trauma nurses, medics, and more, to be digitally altered or completely falsified. The NYT needs to answer for this. This is completely irresponsible and incitement to violence at a time when Jews are being actively attacked globally fueled by disinformation like this.

Not just Jews either. NYT launches attacks like this on Trump all the time. Makes you think, doesn't it.

Here's just one response:

I saw your post after seeing the reply from
@COLRICHARDKEMP
and
@AntSpeaks
, and then I read the article, twice. As someone who is actually a forensic ballistics specialist, I wanted to respond to your post, and this article, with some facts that will demonstrate just how deliberately dishonest and inaccurate both your post and the article are:

1. The damage to the body by bullet shot depends on the weapon and caliber used. A small low caliber pistol will always have less damage than a high caliber rifle such as the 5.56 you and the article mention.

2. The most important factor that determines the level of damage is velocity. And a 5.56 caliber high velocity rifle as is used by the IDF will therefore have a high degree of damage to the head and skull. None of the most obvious types of damage from any gunshot wound to the head nevertheless a 5.56 high velocity rifle shot are visible.

3. When the bullet hits the skull at high velocity, it bevels into the skull, which means as it’s passing through the skull, the immediate entry is small and clean whereas the exit at the front of the skull inside the head is wider and flared. It splinters the skull bone on entry and creates bone shards that then move with the bullet and cause even more damage.

4. Once the bullet enters the head, especially at high velocity, it heats up and creates a shockwave in front of the bullet which widens as the bullet travels through the head causing more damage. The brain is a solid, soft and highly inelastic organ, which means the damage to the brain is such that it literally mushes. The shockwave on entry causes external gases to enter the head in front of the bullet and thus significant displacement of brain matter very rapidly which in turn causes the head to expand rapidly thus causing primary and secondary fractures in various areas of the skull. NONE such fractures are visible in these X-rays.

5. Back to the velocity of the 5.56 rifle shot, for any bullet to stop in the area shown in any of the X-ray images, the bullets would need to travel at very low velocity. That means either the bullets were fired by low velocity small caliber pistols or the rifle shots would need to have been fired from a very long distance (many hundreds of meters) with pinpoint accuracy. When looking at the images, the caliber of bullets are not the same. The first image has a much shorter bullet than the second, meaning it could not be the same caliber.

Now if the children were deliberately shot in the head and neck, it would mean it would be from close range. With a high velocity 5.56 rifle of the type the IDF use, the bullet would never stop so quickly, ever. The bullet would travel so quickly due to VELOCITY that they would almost always exit the skull or body causing much larger exit wounds. None are visible as the bullets are all magically stopped for the perfect X-ray pose. As you can see, there is no damage to the brain in the X-rays. This is even more true of the neck shots where the bullets barely travel an inch and stop at the spine. This would happen only with very low velocity small caliber handguns such as .22 caliber pistols.

6. Basically, for any of the X-rays to be true, these would need to be low velocity pistols, and not high velocity rifles. The distance of fire would still not be very close range, as the damage is not significant enough. Very close range has higher velocity thus more damage.

I’m quite happy for any other ballistics experts to come and debate the post and article and my analysis above. What I can pretty comfortably say is that these are not head and neck shots by high velocity 5.56 rifles. At best these may be wounds from ricochets which would mean they are not deliberate and completely accidental, and also not from close range, but would account for the much lower velocity. At worst, and more likely, this entire post of yours, and the article, is complete and utter bullshit.

Thanks for reading.
Cheryl

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...e_code=1.RU4.aKAi.2JuzZxYawEZ-&smid=url-share

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I don’t hate Israel. They’re just super scrappy
They like to yell! “Holocaust! Never again!” While they knock holy Hell out of everyone around them.
No negotiations required.

Out of everyone around them? Israel hasn’t attacked Egypt or Jordan in the years since they signed peace treaties. Israel only attacked Lebanon after Hezbollah launched attacks against Israel for months from Lebanese territory.

 

[deckardB26354]

New York Times [DERP]

TL;DR: NYT—bad.

Keep typing, Comrade Chang Ping Dong—you’ll find a relevant point eventually.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

TL;DR: NYT—bad.

Keep typing, Comrade Chang Ping Dong—you’ll find a relevant point eventually.

I don’t like The NY Times either. They’re in the tank for Trump.

That said, ChloeTzang’s debunking of the fake X-rays published in the Times that are supposed to show that the IDF is shooting kids in the head is accurate.

 

[deckardB26354]

…fake X-rays published in the Times that are supposed to show that the IDF is shooting kids in the head is accurate.

What’s your source(s) for that if it’s not the NYT?

Question: are the kids hammering the bullets in to their own heads? Maybe the kids cleaning their weapons before they shot at the IDF and they unexpectedly shot themselves?

Because the only other explanation for these kids being shot in the head is Hamas, right? That’s what you’re trying to push as your narrative?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

What’s your source(s) for that if it’s not the NYT?

Question: are the kids hammering the bullets in to their own heads? Maybe the kids cleaning their weapons before they shot at the IDF and they unexpectedly shot themselves?

Because the only other explanation for these kids being shot in the head is Hamas, right? That’s what you’re trying to push as your narrative?

The bullets were laid on the kids’ heads before the X-rays were taken. The x-rays show no sign of trauma that would accompany such a wound.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Dementia Joe and whoever is in charge of the Executive Branch these days are out of the loop.

Biden Sidelined as Israel Reshapes Middle East

WASHINGTON—As Israel prepares a retaliatory strike against Iran, the Biden administration increasingly resembles a spectator, with limited insight into what its closest Middle East ally is planning—and lessened influence over its decisions.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/nation...e9825?st=nQf5kr&reflink=article_copyURL_share

Sadly, this is what happens when you “elect” people that just aren’t serious.

 

[deckardB26354]

The bullets were laid on the kids’ heads before the X-rays were taken. The x-rays show no sign of trauma that would accompany such a wound.

So you’re not wanting to answer my question about the provenance of your information, yes?

So something like this is fake too, right?

Surgeons safely remove mystery bullet from boy’s brain​

https://www.israel21c.org/surgeons-safely-remove-mystery-bullet-from-boys-brain/




Here’s another “faker” x-ray…

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/medicalmuseum/260529194/

 

[ChloeTzang]

What’s your source(s) for that if it’s not the NYT?

Question: are the kids hammering the bullets in to their own heads? Maybe the kids cleaning their weapons before they shot at the IDF and they unexpectedly shot themselves?

Because the only other explanation for these kids being shot in the head is Hamas, right? That’s what you’re trying to push as your narrative?

Duh. Read the article and the critique. They weren't shot in the head at all. The entire thing is typical overwrought and ridiculous Palestinian fiction that some NYT Nazi allowed to be published, thereby forever discrediting the NYT. But then, they were compltely discredited back in the 1930's with their fictional reports from Duranty, and more recently with their outright lies on Hunters Laptop, and now this. Why anyone actually treats them as a news source is a complete mystery to me.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Sadly, this is what happens when you “elect” people that just aren’t serious.

indeed. We need the adults back in charge.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Hmm…fighting like lions doesn’t sound like they’re “defending” themselves—sounds more like an offensive.

The best form of defense is offense. An old adage, and a good one.

Also known as Do Unto Others As They Would Do Unto You, only Do It First!

 

[deckardB26354]

Duh. Read the article and the critique. They weren't shot in the head at all. The entire thing is typical overwrought and ridiculous Palestinian fiction that some NYT Nazi allowed to be published, thereby forever discrediting the NYT. But then, they were compltely discredited back in the 1930's with their fictional reports from Duranty, and more recently with their outright lies on Hunters Laptop, and now this. Why anyone actually treats them as a news source is a complete mystery to me.

And where did the “critique” come from? Your ass? Because I didn’t see it in any of the comments in the article. I did see a lot of comments condemning Israel for what that article appears to be showing—it was running about 80% against Israel’s actions.

Now you have to drag out the tired old “Hunter’s laptop” bullshit…I guess I can drag out the “tired” old Trump stole US government intel documents and gave them to Putin.

Sorry, but I’ll treat the NYT like every other reputable news source that’s out there reporting. I’ll do what other intelligent people do, they aggregate all available data and pit one against the other to find the facts. The gateway dumbshit and Breitfart aren’t on my list of daily reads, but when I need a laugh at racist’s expense I might read some of their alternative facts.

 

[ChloeTzang]

And where did the “critique” come from? Your ass? Because I didn’t see it in any of the comments in the article. I did see a lot of comments condemning Israel for what that article appears to be showing—it was running about 80% against Israel’s actions.

Now you have to drag out the tired old “Hunter’s laptop” bullshit…I guess I can drag out the “tired” old Trump stole US government intel documents and gave them to Putin.

Sorry, but I’ll treat the NYT like every other reputable news source that’s out there reporting. I’ll do what other intelligent people do, they aggregate all available data and pit one against the other to find the facts. The gateway dumbshit and Breitfart aren’t on my list of daily reads, but when I need a laugh at racist’s expense I might read some of their alternative facts.

More fool you. You'll find a lot on twitter, but I doubt you'd read them. You seem to live in a state of confirmation bias.

 

[jhenry922]

stop whining

I'd call you an asshole, but an asshole has a purpose you have none.

 

[deckardB26354]

More fool you. You'll find a lot on twitter, but I doubt you'd read them. You seem to live in a state of confirmation bias.

Oh Comrade Dang Pang Klang, I’d read Twatter, but Leon has so badly fucked over the platform by letting racist nazis like yourself back on there that I’d rather stand under a shower of shattered glass with my eyes wide open than waste my time sifting through the misinformation and hate to find a single kernel of truth.

 

[DukeofPaducah]

The Arabs first conquered Palestine in 650 CE, thousands of years after the Torah was written. The name Palestine dates to the earlier Roman conquest. Before that the land was called Judah or Israel. There is no evidence that today’s Palestinian Arabs are descended from the ancient Philistines. However, we do know the modern Israelis are descended from the ancient Jews. They have the same religion, speak the same language, and use the same writing system.

Here’s what I could find. No timeline. Before 650 CE. Israel had come out of Egypt and wandered in the Sinai for 40 years.

Joshua 10:
40) So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south and of he vale, and the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded.
41) And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea and even unto Gaza and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon.
42) And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time because the Lord God of Israel
fought for Israel.

31 kings were recorded as killed, their cities burned and lands seized. He wasn’t finished.

Joshua 11
19) There isn’t a city that that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle.
21) And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, and from all he mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities.
22) There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod there remained.
23) So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the Lord said to Moses; and Joshua gave it for an inheritance unto Israel
according to their divisions by their tribes. And the land rested from war.

Chapter 13 mentions the land that remained unsubdued. The borders of five Philistine Lords, and the Gazathites. No link is inferred.
The point I’m trying to make is that these lands were inhabited. They were taken by force.
If right is defined by might, which seems to be the rule, then to the victor belongs the spoils.
Negotiations seem to not be a consideration.
Let’s get ready to rumble.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Here’s what I could find. No timeline. Before 650 CE. Israel had come out of Egypt and wandered in the Sinai for 40 years.

Joshua 10:
40) So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south and of he vale, and the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded.
41) And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea and even unto Gaza and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon.
42) And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time because the Lord God of Israel
fought for Israel.

31 kings were recorded as killed, their cities burned and lands seized. He wasn’t finished.

Joshua 11
19) There isn’t a city that that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle.
21) And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, and from all he mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities.
22) There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod there remained.
23) So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the Lord said to Moses; and Joshua gave it for an inheritance unto Israel
according to their divisions by their tribes. And the land rested from war.

Chapter 13 mentions the land that remained unsubdued. The borders of five Philistine Lords, and the Gazathites. No link is inferred.
The point I’m trying to make is that these lands were inhabited. They were taken by force.
If right is defined by might, which seems to be the rule, then to the victor belongs the spoils.
Negotiations seem to not be a consideration.
Let’s get ready to rumble.

The Jews have lived all over the Middle East since prehistory. They had a kingdom centered on Jerusalem in biblical times, but large communities ranging from Egypt to Persia. Except for the Jews in Israel and Judea in their heyday, most Jews in the Middle East lived under the dominion of others. When the Romans invaded Judea they snuffled out Jewish self-rule. They destroyed the Second Temple, stole the menorah, and led the Jews off in chains to Rome. This began the Diaspora—the long history of the Jews as a stateless people in Europe. The Jews managed to survive during their centuries of oppression in Europe and the Middle East under Christian and Muslim rule, but for centuries they were oppressed.

In the 19th Century a group of Jews decided a way out of the endless cycle of pogroms and repression in Europe and the Middle East was to reestablish Jewish self-rule in their ancestral homeland. They started working to build the nucleus of a modern Jewish state in the Levant which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire at the time. They weren’t driving the Palestinian Arabs off their ancestral land. Many Arabs in the Levant were recent transplants to the region who as Muslims they enjoyed their dominion over the Jews who still lived in and around Jerusalem.

Zionism began in the 19th Century, but the extermination of European Jewry in the Holocaust gave it added urgency. Israel was founded in 1948 by convincing the British who controlled Palestine to split it into Arab and Jewish spheres. The Arab sphere became Jordan, and the Jewish sphere became Israel. Many Arabs hated the idea of an independent Jewish state. They wanted to keep the Jews under their thumbs like in the Ottoman Empire. That’s why for the last 80 years Israel has been under constant attack.

 

[south7eventh]

Israel has ALWAYS been alone in this fight. For years they have remained out of Lebanon, but Hezbollah simply used the opportunity to filter back down, establish positions, bases and weapons and dumps, and then, when they chose to, they attacked Israel. UN forces did nothing to stop them. To my mind, that makes UN forces at best, complicit, and at worse, allies of Hezbollah. Hezbollah has attacked. Israel is responding. If UN get in the way or hinders the IDF in any way (as they did NOT ever hinder Hexbollah), they are targets and I say take them out for the terrorist-accomplices they are.

When you start a war, as Hezbollah has done, the only say you have in how it ends is if you win. Hezbollah is not winning. Tough shit. As far as I am concerned they can keep on dying until they're all dead, alomg with anyone helping them (here's looking at you, UN targets) and as for anyone near them. bad luck. Hope they find enough pieces for a funeral.

Israel has been on a defensive war footing for 76 years. The country knows that it cannot afford to ever relax its struggle to survive. However to have fought an offensive battle for a year is something new and it is not clear to me at least whether it is close to a breaking point. Especially when action against Iran directly is imminent.Hopefully there is the will to continue until Hamas and Hezbollah, their tunnels and their martyrs exist only on paper.

Your comments on the United Nations are so true. It was formed very nearly eighty years to as a neutral force and to try to bring peace to areas in dispute.It has never achieved these aims. There is certainly no reason to believe that this will change in the future. Israel has the right to defend its borders and as you explain there are consequences for those who obstruct the IDF in their defence of the nation. There are times when blunt graphic words are required!

 

[DukeofPaducah]

The Jews have lived all over the Middle East since prehistory. They had a kingdom centered on Jerusalem in biblical times, but large communities ranging from Egypt to Persia. Except for the Jews in Israel and Judea in their heyday, most Jews in the Middle East lived under the dominion of others. When the Romans invaded Judea they snuffled out Jewish self-rule. They destroyed the Second Temple, stole the menorah, and led the Jews off in chains to Rome. This began the Diaspora—the long history of the Jews as a stateless people in Europe. The Jews managed to survive during their centuries of oppression in Europe and the Middle East under Christian and Muslim rule, but for centuries they were oppressed.

In the 19th Century a group of Jews decided a way out of the endless cycle of pogroms and repression in Europe and the Middle East was to reestablish Jewish self-rule in their ancestral homeland. They started working to build the nucleus of a modern Jewish state in the Levant which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire at the time. They weren’t driving the Palestinian Arabs off their ancestral land. Many Arabs in the Levant were recent transplants to the region who as Muslims they enjoyed their dominion over the Jews who still lived in and around Jerusalem.

Zionism began in the 19th Century, but the extermination of European Jewry in the Holocaust gave it added urgency. Israel was founded in 1948 by convincing the British who controlled Palestine to split it into Arab and Jewish spheres. The Arab sphere became Jordan, and the Jewish sphere became Israel. Many Arabs hated the idea of an independent Jewish state. They wanted to keep the Jews under their thumbs like in the Ottoman Empire. That’s why for the last 80 years Israel has been under constant attack.

Thank you for the contemporary synopsis.
I was looking for the earliest record of conflict between
the Tribes of Israel and her neighbors.
Early Books of the Old Testament Bible chronicle the origin of the Tribes from Shem, a son of Noah,
who survived the Great Flood.
Shem was the father of Abraham, and we’re off and running.
There was a whole lot of begetting going on, showing a direct line to King David.
Jacob was a son of Isaac, a son of Abraham. He later changed his name to Israel.
He had two wives and they gave him twelve sons.
They had gone down to Egypt, seeking relief from a protracted drought and were enslaved.
Moses led them north and they wandered the Sinai for 40 years.
Style of warfare at the time was closer to extermination. Man, woman and child were put to the sword.
Israel was no exception.
The Book of Joshua recorded much of the carnage.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Thank you for the contemporary synopsis.
I was looking for the earliest record of conflict between
the Tribes of Israel and her neighbors.
Early Books of the Old Testament Bible chronicle the origin of the Tribes from Shem, a son of Noah,
who survived the Great Flood.
Shem was the father of Abraham, and we’re off and running.
There was a whole lot of begetting going on, showing a direct line to King David.
Jacob was a son of Isaac, a son of Abraham. He later changed his name to Israel.
He had two wives and they gave him twelve sons.
They had gone down to Egypt, seeking relief from a protracted drought and were enslaved.
Moses led them north and they wandered the Sinai for 40 years.
Style of warfare at the time was closer to extermination. Man, woman and child were put to the sword.
Israel was no exception.
The Book of Joshua recorded much of the carnage.

What relevance does this have to the modern political situation in the Middle East?

 

[DukeofPaducah]

What relevance does this have to the modern political situation in the Middle East?

Those who lose track of the past may be condemned to repeat it.
You seem to fit that mould.