closed Thread

[coati]

The FACT that 911 happened did not justify GW Bush invading Iraq (because "WMD") and causing needless death and suffering among civilians.

The FACT that October 7th happened did not justify Netanyahu refusing to collaborate effectively with the U.S. and relief organizations in southern Gaza to avoid needless death and suffering among civilians.

Both leaders were so fixed on extracting vengeance that they said "Fuck You" to allies who warned about being blinded by rage. Both leaders made the long-term conflict worse and more entrenched by insisting that the original event triggering the war justified ANYTHING they chose to do.

An eye-for-an-eye leaves everyone blind. And now right here on this thread we have BSG saying that not "that many" war refugees died; Noor saying the main problem is denial that October 7th actually happened; and BB saying "I hope another 300K die.".

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The FACT that 911 happened did not justify GW Bush invading Iraq (because "WMD") and causing needless death and suffering among civilians.

The FACT that October 7th happened did not justify Netanyahu refusing to collaborate effectively with the U.S. and relief organizations in southern Gaza to avoid needless death and suffering among civilians.

Both leaders were so fixed on extracting vengeance that they said "Fuck You" to allies who warned about being blinded by rage. Both leaders made the long-term conflict worse and more entrenched by insisting that the original event triggering the war justified ANYTHING they chose to do.

An eye-for-an-eye leaves everyone blind. And now right here on this thread we have BSG saying that not "that many" war refugees died; Noor saying the main problem is denial that October 7th actually happened; and BB saying "I hope another 300K die.".

Iraq wasn’t involved in 9-11. Bush’s invasion was totally unjustified.

The attack on 10-7 came from Gaza and was carried out by Hamas. There are still over 100 hostages from 10-7 being held in Gaza including small children. Should Israel just abandon its citizens to torture and death at the hands of Hamas?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I can’t believe my fucking eyes. I started noticing some internet ads today and then I started seeing them tonight on network TV here in the US.

Israel is putting out ads—basically selling to the world that 10/7 was bad. Really? No fucking shit it was bad. Usually when you have ads you’re selling something. I suppose you could call it a PSA (public service announcement)—I thought maybe this is an anniversary tribute to dead and those still held hostage, but it’s not the anniversary any longer. Israel thought it was a good idea to use marketing to reach a certain audience—whatever that audience might be is a bit fuzzy to me.

To me, it seems more like Israel is saying, “yeah all of that killing that we’re doing right now in Gaza—this is why—don’t think that we’re doing anything bad or anything like that. They started it!”

Edit: they’re running the shit out of it. Oh I see now…you’re trying to reach the people that WANT the captives to stay captives—right! So this ad is for Hamas only then. Genius.

View attachment 2406201

The audience is YOU. 10/7 was the worst pogrom in Israel’s history. The international response has been a surge of Jew-hatred. There have been rallies and encampments calling for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews.

Your screenshot has the message of the ad front-and- center: Bring the hostages home NOW.

 

[deckardB26354]

The audience is YOU. 10/7 was the worst pogrom in Israel’s history. The international response has been a surge of Jew-hatred. There have been rallies and encampments calling for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews.

Your screenshot has the message of the ad front-and- center: Bring the hostages home NOW.

How is the audience ME?? Tell me how that is EXACTLY, because I have absolutely ZERO power in making that happen.

Everything you just said is absolutely true—except that.

 

[coati]

Should Israel just abandon its citizens to torture and death at the hands of Hamas?

Of course not, and it is insulting for you to infer that this is my view. My point was that Netanyahu blew off Biden and obstructed humanitarian aid to civilians after he drove thousands of them to southern Gaza.

The USA had widespread international support to go after Bin Laden following the 911 attack, and unfortunately GW Bush focused on invading a country that had nothing to do with the 911 attack. He ignored protests at home and abroad. When asked if he had talked to his father (GHW Bush) about this irresponsible move, he said, "I answer to a higher father." Hubris led to unnecessary deaths and suffering.

Israel had widespread international support to go after Hamas following the October 7th attack, including the USA. Unfortunately, Netanyahu refused to collaborate at the most critical times (with the very nation supplying him weapons) about protecting civilians in southern Gaza, including those he had just driven out of the north. Hubris led to unnecessary deaths and suffering.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Of course not, and it is insulting for you to infer that this is my view. My point was that Netanyahu blew off Biden and obstructed humanitarian aid to civilians after he drove thousands of them to southern Gaza.

The USA had widespread international support to go after Bin Laden following the 911 attack, and unfortunately GW Bush focused on invading a country that had nothing to do with the 911 attack. He ignored protests at home and abroad. When asked if he had talked to his father (GHW Bush) about this irresponsible move, he said, "I answer to a higher father." Hubris led to unnecessary deaths and suffering.

Israel had widespread international support to go after Hamas following the October 7th attack, including the USA. Unfortunately, Netanyahu refused to collaborate at the most critical times (with the very nation supplying him weapons) about protecting civilians in southern Gaza, including those he had just driven out of the north. Hubris led to unnecessary deaths and suffering.

Israel did not have widespread international support after 10/7. The marches and protests against Israel committing “genocide” being an “apartheid” state begin before the IDF even had time to respond to the attack.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

How is the audience ME?? Tell me how that is EXACTLY, because I have absolutely ZERO power in making that happen.

Everything you just said is absolutely true—except that.

The ad was targeted at people who minimize or excuse the attack on Israel on 10/7.

 

[deckardB26354]

Israel did not have widespread international support after 10/7. The marches and protests against Israel committing “genocide” being an “apartheid” state begin before the IDF even had time to respond to the attack.

Stop twisting the facts to suit your agenda.

Were there protests, after 10/7–yes, but there were also protests before it as well. Very close to the attack the streets in Israel were packed full calling for Netanyahu’s removal. Even in the ads Israel paid for (with funds that I’m sure could have helped retrieve hostages somehow) they showed the world’s media speaking out against the horrible attack.

 

[deckardB26354]

The ad was targeted at people who minimize or excuse the attack on Israel on 10/7.

Well then—THAT’S STILL NOT ME. Go ahead and call me anti-Semitic now, right?

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Like I’ve said before…there IS NO GENOCIDE IN GAZA.

They’re just killing everyone that just happens to live there—not Palestinians everywhere.

https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreve...n and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with
intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I’ve bolded the important bits for you.

Yes, Israel is carrying out a genocide. No amount of propaganda from Zionists and Zionist supporters is going to stop the entire world from recognising what Israel is doing.

It may be too late for the Palestinians in Palestine, due to the incredible impunity Israel has built up, but Israel itself is eating itself by war of forever wars and falling into full blown fascism.

Don’t say we didn't warn you. Until my patience ran out here in this thread I was posting the citations, news articles, and ICJ rulings throughout.

Israelis and Zionists worldwide may think they are winning this war, but they have destroyed Israel’s reputation, opened up the eyes of the entire planet, but particularly the global south and many of their allies, to the repugnant and brutal apartheid regime they are sustaining.

It is only a matter of time.

In the meantime, I weep for the Palestinians and Lebanese that continue to be killed, and the Israelis whose deaths were entirely preventable, were it not for the racist, apartheid regime and the countries around the world that have allowed it to fester and develop into what we see today - a nuclear capable state that continuously lies to justify its atrocities.

 

[deckardB26354]

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf



I’ve bolded the important bits for you.

Yes, Israel is carrying out a genocide. No amount of propaganda from Zionists and Zionist supporters is going to stop the entire world from recognising what Israel is doing.

It may be too late for the Palestinians in Palestine, due to the incredible impunity Israel has built up, but Israel itself is eating itself by war of forever wars and falling into full blown fascism.

Don’t say we didn't warn you. Until my patience ran out here in this thread I was posting the citations, news articles, and ICJ rulings throughout.

Israelis and Zionists worldwide may think they are winning this war, but they have destroyed Israel’s reputation, opened up the eyes of the entire planet, but particularly the global south and many of their allies, to the repugnant and brutal apartheid regime they are sustaining.

It is only a matter of time.

In the meantime, I weep for the Palestinians and Lebanese that continue to be killed, and the Israelis whose deaths were entirely preventable, were it not for the racist, apartheid regime and the countries around the world that have allowed it to fester and develop into what we see today - a nuclear capable state that continuously lies to justify its atrocities.

Gee…thanks for this I guess.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Gee…thanks for this I guess.

View attachment 2406376

It is. It is indeed.

My apologies.

 

[deckardB26354]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/xT8qAYITi1l7A6m5eo/giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe91jywk6gnmp4jkj575knld927gfpo4v2s1s1b6l33w&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

 

[Rightguide]

The ongoing genocide perpetrated by the Israel Defense Force against the Palestinian people.
It may no longer be on the front page, but it is ongoing.

There is no genocide. There is death being inflicted on a deadly intractable foe and its supporters that happen to be of the same race. There are about 1.9 million Arab citizens of Israel. They are not being attacked or harmed by the IDF. The word "genocide" is not applicable in this instance.

 

[deckardB26354]

There is no genocide.

Keep saying that to yourself and maybe The Rapture will come sooner.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

There is no genocide. There is death being inflicted on a deadly intractable foe and its supporters that happen to be of the same race. There are about 1.9 million Arab citizens of Israel. They are not being attacked or harmed by the IDF. The word "genocide" is not applicable in this instance.

https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreve...n and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with
intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Click to expand...

I’ve bolded the important bits for you as well.

You Zionists really will say and do anything to justify emptying Palestine of Palestinians. Including the logic “we’re only killing people of the same race in a different location, because we’re not killing them all it’s not a genocide”.

Braindead, unintelligent, uneducated racist, genodical nutcases the lot of you. Israel’s reputation and its future is literally in the bin right now. You and others like you put it there. Shame on you.

 

[butters]

You Zionists really will say and do anything to justify emptying Palestine of Palestinians. Including the logic “we’re only killing people of the same race in a different location, because we’re not killing them all it’s not a genocide”.

i have to agree with this

i don't agree 100% with your following paragraph since there are some posters here I consider generally wise, caring, and balanced in most instances yet seem to hold everyone to blame EXCEPT Israel. I don't for one minute deny the atrocities carried out by hamas, hezbollah and Iran's influence behind them... but that cannot excuse Israel's gov't (or let us say netanyahu's gov't) own excesses and culpability.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

i have to agree with this

i don't agree 100% with your following paragraph since there are some posters here I consider generally wise, caring, and balanced in most instances yet seem to hold everyone to blame EXCEPT Israel. I don't for one minute deny the atrocities carried out by hamas, hezbollah and Iran's influence behind them... but that cannot excuse Israel's gov't (or let us say netanyahu's gov't) own excesses and culpability.

42,000 Palestinians have died and the Lancet medical journal has put the potential actual figure at 186,000.

Every single day Israel kills 20-30 Palestinians, that we know of. Every day there is new bombing raids causing massive destruction on civilian infrastructure.

Now Israel is doing it in Lebanon too.

If you’re pro-Israel, you’re pro genocide. And tbh I’m not excusing it anymore. Too much heart breaking and overwhelming evidence.

In one calendar year, Israel enacted over 20 times as many deaths and over 85,000 tonnes worth of bombs on Palestine. Think about that.

It’s disgusting. They need to find humility and humanity.

 

[Lazaran]

i have to agree with this

i don't agree 100% with your following paragraph since there are some posters here I consider generally wise, caring, and balanced in most instances yet seem to hold everyone to blame EXCEPT Israel. I don't for one minute deny the atrocities carried out by hamas, hezbollah and Iran's influence behind them... but that cannot excuse Israel's gov't (or let us say netanyahu's gov't) own excesses and culpability.

Help me out here, butters:

What does Gaza look like today sans the Hamas terrorists 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation???

What does Lebanon look like today if Hezbollah hadn’t joined in the Hamas terror attacks on Israel???

What do the borders of Israel look like today sans Arab / Muslim aggression post Israel independence???

Honest answers to those ^ questions should inform one’s position on the current situation in the region.

Then one must factor in the Hamas terrorists’ objective of triggering a global Jihad with their 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation, and, largely failing that, the Hamas terrorists’ plan B of bad faith negotiations over the hostages, hostage murders, and using the Palestinian people as human shields to turn the situation into a long protracted crisis designed to illicit enough Israeli reprisal to get Israel’s foreign allies to cut off arms shipments.

Notice that Hamas is no longer calling for a global Jihad, and has pivoted to "demanding" that Israel’s allies stop arms shipments.

Hamas (Iran) knows that an end to arms shipments, etc, would ultimately spell doom for Israel.

Fuck that ^ !!!





Side note:

Much like Russia believes it can outlast the west and Ukraine with slow but constant pressure, Hamas (Iran) believes it can outlast the west and Israel with slow but constant pressure. (Boiling the frog).

Israel is choosing to not be boiled like a frog and is going on the offensive in a major way to "win" a lasting peace (or the closest thing to it.)

I wish Ukraine could do the same, but the situation is far different when dealing with a nuclear armed Russia. (Although, Ukraine HAS been upping the costs on Russia in recents months, so Ukraine IS doing a modified version of what Israel is doing.)

 

[Lance_Castro]

I like how the IDF and Mosaad systematically eliminates palestinians in gaza, lebanon, syria, yemen etc without it dawning on them that they’ve done a complete role reversal from hunted to hunter.

 

[dmallord]

As WWIII looms Kamala offers word salad:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842940403072565734

Her word salad sounds better than the vitriol that Trump mangles.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

42,000 Palestinians have died and the Lancet medical journal has put the potential actual figure at 186,000.

Every single day Israel kills 20-30 Palestinians, that we know of. Every day there is new bombing raids causing massive destruction on civilian infrastructure.

Now Israel is doing it in Lebanon too.

If you’re pro-Israel, you’re pro genocide. And tbh I’m not excusing it anymore. Too much heart breaking and overwhelming evidence.

In one calendar year, Israel enacted over 20 times as many deaths and over 85,000 tonnes worth of bombs on Palestine. Think about that.

It’s disgusting. They need to find humility and humanity.

Quoting the Lancet letter doesn't help your case. Spreading disinformation doesn't help the Palestinians or the Lebanese. Destroying Hamas and Hezbollah helps the Palestinians and Lebanese.

 

[Noor]

Oh please. They’ve been comparing it to 9/11. I don’t know of anyone refusing to believe that 9/11 didn’t happen.

Of course, there are a bunch of idiots with their conspiracy theories on who made 9/11 happen—but they don’t deny that it happened.

To Israel it compares. the number of dead , 1200 is a larger percentage of the Israeli population than the 9/11 dead for the US population.

 

[Noor]

There is no genocide. There is death being inflicted on a deadly intractable foe and its supporters that happen to be of the same race. There are about 1.9 million Arab citizens of Israel. They are not being attacked or harmed by the IDF. The word "genocide" is not applicable in this instance.

And the Israeli Arabs fight in the army like everyone else. Israel is multiracial and has multiple religions coexisting there. Plus homosexuality, trans, and such is accepted unlike Gaza who dealt with it by throwing them off buildings. Women are covered in Gaza, are property of their fathers until they become property of their husbands.

 

[deckardB26354]

To Israel it compares. the number of dead , 1200 is a larger percentage of the Israeli population than the 9/11 dead for the US population.

Ok, I get it. Israel is better than everyone at everything—including terrorist attacks. Happy now?

Sorry, but that’s a bullshit justification.