closed Thread

[BrightShinyGirl]

So if we can’t believe the Gaza Ministry of Health, but we ARE supposed to believe the JNS—who gets their figures from the IDF? Right. They start their piece with “Hamas is privately admitting…”??? That sounds like Trump and his “people are saying” bullshit.



Even by their own numbers in your linked article, the IDF reports that 17,000 combatants have been killed. According to a LOT of the news footage I’ve seen coming out of Gaza, I’m seeing children—babies—dying from shrapnel and bullet wounds. So they must be part of that 17,000, yes?

I don’t think anyone is ever going to know the true number of the dead in Gaza unless they start digging them up to take a complete census.

If you don't know what the real figures are, don't cite fake ones as if they are fact.

 

[Noor]

If you don't know what the real figures are, don't cite fake ones as if they are fact.

Unfortunately, they are not alone, the UN still used old estimated numbers that they themselves revised.
The world has gone insane.

On the other hand, why should it matter? Hamas, the elected governing body of Gaza, declared war on Israeli by slaughtering innocent civilians, many of whom weren’t even Israeli.
Attackers don’t get to choose the response to their attack. You start a war, you take your chances.
How many people were killed by the US response to 9/11? is this something the average protestor even considers or how many continue to die because their countries were destabilized or destroyed?
How about Afghanistan? How about every war the US has fought?
I think the only reason people care about Gaza is because it supports their prejudice against Jews who are a minority in the world and indigenous people of Israel.

 

[deckardB26354]

If you don't know what the real figures are, don't cite fake ones as if they are fact.

Excuse me, but how do we know that the IDF numbers aren’t fake? So if you say the Palestinian numbers are fake and I say the IDF numbers are fake…what then? Who to believe—see my point? I’m not trying to be blatantly argumentative, but there’s no true source for the data, so you believe what you want to believe.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Excuse me, but how do we know that the IDF aren’t fake?

• The IDF press office lies.
• The IDF press office always lies.
• The IDF press office will always lie.
• and......the IDF press office doesn't care.

They know that a substantial minority of Israel supporters around the world will always repeat their press releases as gospel. AIPAC in America works tirelessly to ensure that the IDF voice is the ONLY voice heard.
Errything else is, well, "anti-Semitic".

 

[Noor]

Excuse me, but how do we know that the IDF numbers aren’t fake? So if you say the Palestinian numbers are fake and I say the IDF numbers are fake…what then? Who to believe—see my point? I’m not trying to be blatantly argumentative, but there’s no true source for the data, so you believe what you want to believe.

Usually the dead are counted at the end of a war. However, there are state players who are trying to manipulate the outcome via propaganda, so everything must be taken with a grain of salt, or perhaps an entire silo of salt.

 

[coati]

I think the only reason people care about Gaza is because it supports their prejudice against Jews who are a minority in the world and indigenous people of Israel.

That's an over-simplification.

People throughout the world cared deeply that America attacked and trashed Iraq following the 911 attack. They also cared when America invaded Vietnam and killed half a million people there.

 

[Noor]

That's an over-simplification.

People throughout the world cared deeply that America attacked and trashed Iraq following the 911 attack. They also cared when America invaded Vietnam and killed half a million people there.

 

[Noor]

I’d agree about Vietnam, but not so much 911.
But yes it’s a simplification so are most discussions of the Mideast. Most people have no skin in the game or historical understanding and just jumped on into it.
Even the US presidential administration can’t been consistent.
Not to mention that it seems to me that the Iranian proxies, israel and the Abraham accord counties are unwilling pawns of Russia, china , the us and the eu whom I doubt actually give a damn about Gaza , Lebanon or Israel.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I’d agree about Vietnam, but not so much 911.
But yes it’s a simplification so are most discussions of the Mideast. Most people have no skin in the game or historical understanding and just jumped on into it.
Even the US presidential administration can’t been consistent.
Not to mention that it seems to me that the Iranian proxies, israel and the Abraham accord counties are unwilling pawns of Russia, china , the us and the eu whom I doubt actually give a damn about Gaza , Lebanon or Israel.

People who vigorously criticize Israel’s actions in Gaza are strangely silent when other countries fight wars where civilians get killed.

 

[butters]

I think the only reason people care about Gaza is because it supports their prejudice against Jews who are a minority in the world and indigenous people of Israel.

Sorry, Noor, but that does not reflect why I care. AT ALL. That's calling me, and millions like me, antisemitic and cannot be further from the truth

 

[butters]

People who vigorously criticize Israel’s actions in Gaza are strangely silent when other countries fight wars where civilians get killed.

I saw plenty of people in the Ukraine/Russia thread complaining about the horrors involved there.
As to the other wars, where are the threads?
I, for one, am too exhausted by the killings, the violence, the almost crazy dissonance between how one set of people view Israel's actions compared to others, and the situation only getting worse for individuals impacted by the day. The civilians involved in the terrible situation in Gaza, Lebanon and Israel must be more than exhausted.
I think I need to stay away from these threads for now; it's disheartening.

 

[Lazaran]

• The IDF press office lies.
• The IDF press office always lies.
• The IDF press office will always lie.
• and......the IDF press office doesn't care.

They know that a substantial minority of Israel supporters around the world will always repeat their press releases as gospel. AIPAC in America works tirelessly to ensure that the IDF voice is the ONLY voice heard.
Errything else is, well, "anti-Semitic".

Then “AIPAC in America” is doing a reeeeaaally bad job.



The reality is, 10/7 proved every fear of genocidal Islam was / is justified. It was far worse than 9/11, imho, because it clearly involved much larger organization / cooperation within the Arab/ Muslim community, and was met with little to no full throated condemnation from the Arab / Muslim community. Quite the contrary, actually.



And, while AIPAC undoubtedly IS attempting to present their narrative to the world, it has mostly been playing catch-up (counter-narrating) to the Arab / Muslim media narrative that went into full swing IMMEDIATELY after the Hamas terrorists’ 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation. (The Arab / Muslim world has plenty of cash and connections in media to “make fetch happen”).



Personally, I’m of the mind that there IS too much killing and collective punishment occurring in the region, but Israel IS in an existential war of survival against far larger and far more radical enemies, and I have zero right to be overly judgmental of Israel’s actions.

I also believe Israel DOES get too much scrutiny from SOME people, despite there being faaaaaar worse atrocities being committed in other wars around the world. (And Israel is in the middle of the beginning of a “hot war” IT DID NOT START, with radical hostiles on every flank.)

I’m willing to give Israel quite a bit of latitude when prosecuting this war. If I see self recorded video by IDF forces rampaging through a Palestinian dance festival raping, torturing, murdering, and kidnapping the INNOCENT attendees (or even bombing a Palestinian dance party) THEN I will say Israel has crossed the line. (And, no, Israel bombing Hamas operatives who are using "innocents" as human shields is not equivalent to what Hamas did on 10/7). Hamas, etc, set the terms of combat - now they must deal with the repercussions.

 

[coati]

People who vigorously criticize Israel’s actions in Gaza are strangely silent when other countries fight wars where civilians get killed.

The hell they are.

The same folks who protested the carpet bombing of Vietnam and the murder of countless civilians in Iraq and the murder of countless civilians in Ukraine are protesting Netanyahu going way overboard in Gaza. I've seen them and their children protesting this insanity since 1968.

Invaders tend to be fucking arrogant and often commit war crimes.

 

[deckardB26354]

The world has gone insane.

I think the only reason people care about Gaza is because it supports their prejudice against Jews who are a minority in the world and indigenous people of Israel.

Correct on the first comment.

I call bullshit on the second comment. I care about the people of Gaza as much as I care about the people of Israel—we’re all human fucking beings. Say you’re Muslim, say you’re Jewish, say you’re Christian, say you’re a Satan worshipper—I don’t give a fuck, I despise all religions equally. The world has gone insane you say? Because of religion—that’s what’s wrong with the world.

And you can sit and spin on that indigenous people crap. There were people that lived in that area before the Israelites showed up, but nobody cares about them now do they? Groups of people get displaced, conquered, annihilated, etc. all the time throughout the centuries. Doesn’t mean that one particular group has a right to a damn thing thousands of years later.

 

[lessOHmo]

Correct on the first comment.

I call bullshit on the second comment. I care about the people of Gaza as much as I care about the people of Israel—we’re all human fucking beings. Say you’re Muslim, say you’re Jewish, say you’re Christian, say you’re a Satan worshipper—I don’t give a fuck, I despise all religions equally. The world has gone insane you say? Because of religion—that’s what’s wrong with the world.

And you can sit and spin on that indigenous people crap. There were people that lived in that area before the Israelites showed up, but nobody cares about them now do they? Groups of people get displaced, conquered, annihilated, etc. all the time throughout the centuries. Doesn’t mean that one particular group has a right to a damn thing thousands of years later.

Stop whining

 

[Rightguide]

As WWIII looms Kamala offers word salad:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842940403072565734

 

[ll74]

As WWIII looms Kamala offers word salad:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842940403072565734

Is it world war 3 fear mongering time again? I thought that was scheduled for the 17th

 

[deckardB26354]

Stop whining

STFU and GFY, lessHomo.

 

[lessOHmo]

Stop whining

 

[deckardB26354]

I stand by my previous statement, lessHomo.

 

[Lazaran]

As WWIII looms Kamala offers word salad:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842940403072565734

Just because ignorant MAGAts can’t comprehend Vice President Harris’ answer doesn’t make it “word salad”.



"Right"guide

 

[lessOHmo]

I stand by my previous statement, lessHomo.

Stop whining

 

[RobDownSouth]

Then “AIPAC in America” is doing a reeeeaaally bad job.



The reality is, 10/7 proved every fear of genocidal Islam was / is justified. It was far worse than 9/11, imho, because it clearly involved much larger organization / cooperation within the Arab/ Muslim community, and was met with little to no full throated condemnation from the Arab / Muslim community. Quite the contrary, actually.



And, while AIPAC undoubtedly IS attempting to present their narrative to the world, it has mostly been playing catch-up (counter-narrating) to the Arab / Muslim media narrative that went into full swing IMMEDIATELY after the Hamas terrorists’ 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation. (The Arab / Muslim world has plenty of cash and connections in media to “make fetch happen”).



Personally, I’m of the mind that there IS too much killing and collective punishment occurring in the region, but Israel IS in an existential war of survival against far larger and far more radical enemies, and I have zero right to be overly judgmental of Israel’s actions.

I also believe Israel DOES get too much scrutiny from SOME people, despite there being faaaaaar worse atrocities being committed in other wars around the world. (And Israel is in the middle of the beginning of a “hot war” IT DID NOT START, with radical hostiles on every flank.)

I’m willing to give Israel quite a bit of latitude when prosecuting this war. If I see self recorded video by IDF forces rampaging through a Palestinian dance festival raping, torturing, murdering, and kidnapping the INNOCENT attendees (or even bombing a Palestinian dance party) THEN I will say Israel has crossed the line. (And, no, Israel bombing Hamas operatives who are using "innocents" as human shields is not equivalent to what Hamas did on 10/7). Hamas, etc, set the terms of combat - now they must deal with the repercussions.

AIPAC actually did an outstanding job of controlling the narrative the first two or three weeks after 10/7. If you look at most contemporary postings on MOST of the major social media platforms (Facebook, Threads, Twitter, Truth Social and Instagram) you will see that anything that deviated from the "oh those poor suffering Israelis" was almost immediately removed and users suspended or banned, and/or branded "Anti-Semitic" (a hoary Israeli canned response). An almost complete clampdown.

The "X factor" was TikTok. TikTok was owned by the Chinese, and outside the reach of the American government and AIPAC. TikTok quickly became the "go to" source for videos of Israeli atrocities, which were heavily censored in the Western media. The first groundswell against the Israel genocide actually came from college students, the majority of the "TikTok demographic". AIPAC and the majority of Boomer Congress were caught flat-footed and that resulted in some pretty draconian crackdowns.

 

[Noor]

Correct on the first comment.

I call bullshit on the second comment. I care about the people of Gaza as much as I care about the people of Israel—we’re all human fucking beings. Say you’re Muslim, say you’re Jewish, say you’re Christian, say you’re a Satan worshipper—I don’t give a fuck, I despise all religions equally. The world has gone insane you say? Because of religion—that’s what’s wrong with the world.

And you can sit and spin on that indigenous people crap. There were people that lived in that area before the Israelites showed up, but nobody cares about them now do they? Groups of people get displaced, conquered, annihilated, etc. all the time throughout the centuries. Doesn’t mean that one particular group has a right to a damn thing thousands of years later.

There have always been Jews in Israel, except the time when they were kidnapped and made slaves in Egypt.
Jews are more than a religion, a majority of them share mitochondrial DNA and are descendants of the one of 13 tribes. Most Jews are non religious.
There are no records that the Jews showed up from other places unlike the Arabs and Arabia.
Jews also survive and have outlived most ancient peoples. Jealousy of this longevity is one of the main causes of Why Jews are vilified.

I would agree that religion fueled by greed, particularly a form of Islam, has been a huge factor in the world’s current problems, much like the crusaders back in the 11th-13th centuries. The Jews were in Israel then too.

 

[Noor]

The hell they are.

The same folks who protested the carpet bombing of Vietnam and the murder of countless civilians in Iraq and the murder of countless civilians in Ukraine are protesting Netanyahu going way overboard in Gaza. I've seen them and their children protesting this insanity since 1968.

Invaders tend to be fucking arrogant and often commit war crimes.

How about the kidnappings in Nigeria by Boko Haram fighters, the women disappearing in Mexico by the drug cartels , the Sudanese civil war, the Slaughter of the Ukrainians by Russia, For starters?
This are current conflicts that get little attention by the media and protests.

People protesting about Gaza is state sponsored and organized by Iran they even have a still alive ( for now) commander in charge of it.