International dialogue

[Rob_Royale]

So I came up with a story idea that I'm just a bit in love with. It will take place in an operahouse, just before WW1. It's about the opera company, so the cast will be extensive, with a few from various places in Europe.

I'm planning to do the dialogue very formally. Use of contractions will be limited and I will endevour for the language to be a bit more elequent.

What I'm wondering is - as a reader, would you miss when characters occasionally lapse back to their native language. Mon Dieu! and such. I was thinking of just avoiding such things, so I don't have to figure out exlamations and slang from France, Germany, Engand, etc. from that time period.

Do you think the lack of such things would take away fro the story?

 

[MiaBabe23]

I think ultimately, if the story is good and readable, I would still enjoy it. Random expressions thrown in to say “This is the French/ whoever guy” could be useful, or could be distractingly clichéd
But - authenticity and a sense of who the character is, where they come from, enhance it, and make them and the environment more believable. If done well, it would definitely make me enjoy the story more

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I think your idea of not using contractions would make the dialogue seem more authentic. I've done okay with some accents, though I try not to get too involved. If the story is good, it should work without getting too involved in how each persons speaks.

 

[HordHolm]

So I came up with a story idea that I'm just a bit in love with. It will take place in an operahouse, just before WW1. It's about the opera company, so the cast will be extensive, with a few from various places in Europe.

I'm planning to do the dialogue very formally. Use of contractions will be limited and I will endevour for the language to be a bit more elequent.

What I'm wondering is - as a reader, would you miss when characters occasionally lapse back to their native language. Mon Dieu! and such. I was thinking of just avoiding such things, so I don't have to figure out exlamations and slang from France, Germany, Engand, etc. from that time period.

Do you think the lack of such things would take away fro the story?

Earlier this year I submitted a pair of stories from an anachronistic version of precisely this time period and was faced with exactly the same issue you are facing - I had Danes and Austrians and French, etc. I wrestled with how much to alter dialogue to reflect nationality and decided to give a small amount of narration when a character first spoke (i.e. "Very well," he said, a trace of Provence in his voice...) and for the rest I just wrote in normal English, in the same more formal manner you are contemplating, and with a slightly old-fashioned vocabulary (think Stephen Fry's Jeeves). These stories are in the wasteland of Humor & Satire, with low views and votes, but with good scores and the comments I have received have been appreciative, so for at least some readers this approach has worked.

 

[Writer61]

What I'm wondering is - as a reader, would you miss when characters occasionally lapse back to their native language. Mon Dieu! and such. I was thinking of just avoiding such things, so I don't have to figure out exlamations and slang from France, Germany, Engand, etc. from that time period.

Do you think the lack of such things would take away fro the story?

Including an occasional phrase in relevant languages will help establish the multilingual nature of the group. Doesn't have to be exclamation or slang. Everyday pleasantries such as 'Good morning' and 'Thankyou' work too, so should not need a lot of research.

I would italicise any non-English words, make sure that the context is clear, and generally establish nationality separately.

These phrases do not need translating, and you don't even need to know which language is being used.

• "Mon Dieu!" exclaimed Pierre.
• "Grazie Mille," Paolo thanked him.

I would not try to transliterate foreign-accented English "Eet eez very corny, no?"

 

[THBGato]

Except, when you speak in English with non-native speakers they don't often pepper their sentences with ordinary expressions in their own languages. They usually know the translations of those e.g. "Good morning" or "Thank you." (It's more likely that English speakers will use them to the non-native speakers, in an effort to appear sophisticated.)

What will be more realistic, is non-native English speakers not knowing the words for rarer vocabulary.

e.g. "This is delicious. How is it called?" Pedro asked, holding up a piece of Yorkshire Pudding.

The second thing, as modeled above, will be non-native speakers applying their own grammar and syntax to the way they speak English. So, you'll have French, Spanish and Italians saying things like:

"How is it called?"
"How many years do you have?"
"This has no sense."

While German speakers might move the second verb in the sentence to the end position. e.g.

"I have not your meaning rightly understood."

 

[StillStunned]

What annoys me, personally, is how people are portrayed as sufficiently fluent in another language that they can discuss global politics or explain the workings of a dirty bomb or proclaim their deepest feelings. But they still say words like "yes", "no" and "good morning" in their own language.

 

[THBGato]

What annoys me, personally, is how people are portrayed as sufficiently fluent in another language that they can discuss global politics or explain the workings of a dirty bomb or proclaim their deepest feelings. But they still say words like "yes", "no" and "good morning" in their own language.

Exactly my point!

Now, in moments of stress or shock, it is believable that they would switch into their native tongue e.g. swearing. But you're right, they wouldn't say "yes", "no" or "good morning" in their own language.

 

[StillStunned]

Exactly my point!

Now, in moments of stress or shock, it is believable that they would switch into their native tongue e.g. swearing. But you're right, they wouldn't say "yes", "no" or "good morning" in their own language.

Yes, you beat me to it by about 10 seconds. Great minds.

 

[TheLobster]

There is a difference between portraying non-native speakers realistically, which is what @THBGato and @StillStunned are suggesting, and showing the reader, in a clear and unambiguous way, that the characters aren’t natives.

If your goal is mainly the latter, stick to speech tags and occasional interjections in moments of great tension (including, and perhaps especially, of the erotic kind).

 

[HordHolm]

Expanding on my earlier post, and taking into account some subsequent comments, I would add that there is definitely a tension between realism and a level of smooth comprehension for the reader. So changing syntax is fine, but too much and I have my inner-Yoda - "sexy, you are!" - disrupting the flow. I teach English as a second language and I can second THBGato that non-native speakers of any fluency rarely slip into their own tongue. They might if they are muttering to themselves, or in moments of shock/tension/ecstasy (my wife, from time to time, will swear in her first language in bed, but in general she finds it more satisfying to swear in English, even when she thinks she's on her own). I have messed with the syntax in stories, but only with the lightest touch - I think I've gone as far as, "please, to explain," or something like that. And I have only once transliterated an accent, in one sentence, and that for a very definite effect.

With this story there is also the issue of a slightly anachronistic form of English - it's set 110 years ago, and I would suggest that complicates things a little more. This is the point at which one also has to catch oneself to ensure more recent terms aren't being used, let alone misplaced foreign words/terms. As an example, I was reading one of the Pandemonium entries, a very well-written piece, set in an anachronistic dark age/medieval kingdom, and halfway down the first page one character turns to the other and says, "OK". This stood out like a rusty nail to me - I didn't mention it to the author, as it was a tiny thing in an otherwise very good story, and what are they going to do about it anyway? But there it was, and there it still is, tapping my consciousness with its modern slangy finger....

Which I think speaks to my point (if I have one), which I suppose is that it's easy to write something that's like a nail down the blackboard for some readers, and less-is-more is probably the path of least resistance.

 

[MelissaBaby]

So I came up with a story idea that I'm just a bit in love with. It will take place in an operahouse, just before WW1. It's about the opera company, so the cast will be extensive, with a few from various places in Europe.

What I'm wondering is - as a reader, would you miss when characters occasionally lapse back to their native language. Mon Dieu! and such. I was thinking of just avoiding such things, so I don't have to figure out exlamations and slang from France, Germany, Engand, etc. from that time period.

Do you think the lack of such things would take away fro the story?

I had a similar dilemma when I wrote Isabel.

The title character was originally a major secondary figure in The Adventures of Ranger Ramona. She is French Canadian and summers in Maine. She "mon Dieu's" and "ma cherie's" all over the place. But when I spun her off into her own story, I had an issue.

She lives in Montreal, a bilingual city. Some of the other characters are Francophones, others speak English as their first language. Presumably she would frequently be slipping from one language to the other, even within a conversation.

I decided to just write it in straight English. I did not intentionally make the dialogue more formal, but I avoided colloquialism, which had much of the same effect.

I placed an author's note at the beginning: Author's notes: The characters in this story are bilingual; it can be assumed that their conversations are sometimes in English, sometimes in French, occasionally switching between the two. For clarity and the convenience of readers, all dialogue has been rendered in English.

 

[Voboy]

I'd keep that sort of thing to a minimum.

But remember: chances are that even though you're going to be writing in English, they'd probably have all been speaking French at that time; that was still the "international language" then. I don't know whether that affects your dialogue choices or not, but it might give an opportunity for people to misunderstand each other. And that's fun sometimes.

 

[SimonDoom]

It won't take anything away if you stick to English. I think it could seem forced, on other hand, if you used to many foreignisms. It's easy enough to let the reader know the nationality by the setting, or by description of the character.

 

[Writer61]

Except, when you speak in English with non-native speakers they don't often pepper their sentences with ordinary expressions in their own languages. They usually know the translations of those e.g. "Good morning" or "Thank you."

Not suggesting that they don't know the translation or that they "pepper" sentences with words/phrases from their language, but it happens. For example, last week in a meeting of several nationalities with English as the common language one of my French colleagues started with "Bonjour everyone."

(It's more likely that English speakers will use them to the non-native speakers, in an effort to appear sophisticated.)

Agree with the first part of that, but not the reason. For me, it is as much about respecting the other person.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice. I can't wait to start this story. I haven't been this excited about a story since my Skyrim story, last January.