closed Thread

[RobDownSouth]

And for that ^, Netanyahu and others responsible for allowing the attack to take place should be held accountable.

A shameful dereliction of duty and their office.

The main offender in the Gaza Fuckup is Israeli Minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich, one of the most racist human beings alive and a proponent of perpetual war. He represents the West Bank criminals in the Knesset, and without his control of 10% of the Religious Zionist party, Netanyahu would not have been elected Prime Minister. Smotrich is probably the most racist politician in Israel and has dedicated his life to wiping out non-Jewish people in the Middle East.

Smotrich's support came at a steep price: He only agreed to support Netanyahu if Netanyahu would deploy 3 battalions of IDF troops to the West Bank, to back up West Bank looters who pushed Palestinians out of their homes and create new 'settlements".

Netanyahu did not have sufficient troops to do this, so he proposed removing the exemption from military service for Orthodox Jews. This caused yet another political crisis in Israel ("Orthodox Jewish Blood" > "Jewish Blood" > "Goyim Blood") but eventually it was decided to create the world's first Orthodox Jewish battle group, with strict observance of Orthodox rules. It is the equivalent of one battalion sized organization, and has been deployed to the West Bank, presumably to kill civilians.

This left Netanyahu two battalions short in the West Bank, and to keep his political position he had to re-deploy the "prison guards" on the landside border of Israel-Gaza to the West Bank.

This was a tremendous gamble but didn't seem that way at the time. The Iron Dome air defense was a relative success in Israel (which IDF Public Affairs puffed up to a Trumpian "near infallible") and the new untested Iron Wall defense (13 heavily fortified super-machine-gun towers with interlocking fields of fire) were believed to be sufficient by Israeli generals. It obviously could not be tested under "real world conditions".

Hamas noted the lack of IDF troops at the border and immediately made plans to take out the Iron Wall. It took them a year to do this (2022-2023). Mossad intelligence noticed Hamas conducting military training featuring tower assaults, but it was dismissed by....somebody, we don't know exactly who. Might be a case of wishful thinking.

October 7th came and Hamas destroyed 12 of 13 Iron Wall towers after about 4 hours of intense combat. The 13th tower worked as advertised and wiped out several companies (exact count unknown) of Hama infantry and armored pickup truck cavalry. The other twelve towers were destroyed by combat engineers and sappers. (Think: medieval castle siege and/or "The Guns of Navaronne" from WW2)

This was probably the biggest defeat modern Israel had ever experienced (The Yom Kippur war had the potential for being the biggest route of Israel in history, only a massive influx of US arms saved Israel's bacon). Naturally, this embarrassed the hell out of the Israeli government, which (not unlike the USA after 9/11) began a half-assed retaliation with no strategic plan other than to "break stuff".

Israel had no one but themselves to blame for 10/7. You can't build the "world's largest outdoor prison" and complain when the "inmates" notice the guards have left.
.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Former IDF Army General and current Netanyahu cabinet member Benny Gantz gave Netanyahu a hard deadline: present your strategy for concluding operations in Gaza by June 8th or he would resign in protest.

Netanyahu delivered his strategy and Gantz resigned anyway.

Netanyahu's end strategy? A permanent military occupation of Gaza and the establishment of (illegal) Israeli settlements within Gaza. Just like the West Bank.

The Germans had a word for that...."Lebensraum".

 

[Lazaran]

The main offender in the Gaza Fuckup is Israeli Minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich, one of the most racist human beings alive and a proponent of perpetual war. He represents the West Bank criminals in the Knesset, and without his control of 10% of the Religious Zionist party, Netanyahu would not have been elected Prime Minister. Smotrich is probably the most racist politician in Israel and has dedicated his life to wiping out non-Jewish people in the Middle East.

Smotrich's support came at a steep price: He only agreed to support Netanyahu if Netanyahu would deploy 3 battalions of IDF troops to the West Bank, to back up West Bank looters who pushed Palestinians out of their homes and create new 'settlements".

Netanyahu did not have sufficient troops to do this, so he proposed removing the exemption from military service for Orthodox Jews. This caused yet another political crisis in Israel ("Orthodox Jewish Blood" > "Jewish Blood" > "Goyim Blood") but eventually it was decided to create the world's first Orthodox Jewish battle group, with strict observance of Orthodox rules. It is the equivalent of one battalion sized organization, and has been deployed to the West Bank, presumably to kill civilians.

This left Netanyahu two battalions short in the West Bank, and to keep his political position he had to re-deploy the "prison guards" on the landside border of Israel-Gaza to the West Bank.

This was a tremendous gamble but didn't seem that way at the time. The Iron Dome air defense was a relative success in Israel (which IDF Public Affairs puffed up to a Trumpian "near infallible") and the new untested Iron Wall defense (13 heavily fortified super-machine-gun towers with interlocking fields of fire) were believed to be sufficient by Israeli generals. It obviously could not be tested under "real world conditions".

Hamas noted the lack of IDF troops at the border and immediately made plans to take out the Iron Wall. It took them a year to do this (2022-2023). Mossad intelligence noticed Hamas conducting military training featuring tower assaults, but it was dismissed by....somebody, we don't know exactly who. Might be a case of wishful thinking.

October 7th came and Hamas destroyed 12 of 13 Iron Wall towers after about 4 hours of intense combat. The 13th tower worked as advertised and wiped out several companies (exact count unknown) of Hama infantry and armored pickup truck cavalry. The other twelve towers were destroyed by combat engineers and sappers. (Think: medieval castle siege and/or "The Guns of Navaronne" from WW2)

This was probably the biggest defeat modern Israel had ever experienced (The Yom Kippur war had the potential for being the biggest route of Israel in history, only a massive influx of US arms saved Israel's bacon). Naturally, this embarrassed the hell out of the Israeli government, which (not unlike the USA after 9/11) began a half-assed retaliation with no strategic plan other than to "break stuff".

Israel had no one but themselves to blame for 10/7. You can't build the "world's largest outdoor prison" and complain when the "inmates" notice the guards have left.
.

Remind me again what precipitated / necessitated the Israeli settlements in Gaza and The West Bank after Israel declared independence post WWII and the ACTUAL genocide that had been perpetrated against the Jews???



Remind me again what happened when the Israelis abandoned the settlements in Gaza???



The fact is: The Arabs / Muslims in the region have been playing “Boil the frog” with Israel since Israel declared its independence, by engaging in perpetual open warfare, terror attacks, and gray-zone warfare, in a transparent attempt to wear down the Israeli’s resolve, and to steal / appropriate ALL of the Israeli’s hard won territory and treasure.

FUCK THAT ^ !!!

 

[Rightguide]

Legal, Military Experts Call to Reevaluate Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ After Hostage Rescue Reveals Hamas Complicity​

JOSHUA KLEIN20 Jun 2024

In light of the recent dramatic rescue of four Israeli hostages held by Palestinian civilians, a legal expert and military specialist are urging a reevaluation of use of the term “Palestinian civilian,” arguing that those participating in hostilities, such as hostage-taking and other Hamas crimes, lose their civilian status under international law.

In an essay published in Newsweek on Monday, international human rights lawyer Arsen Ostrovsky along with retired United States Army major and world-renowned urban and warfare expert John Spencer, suggest that a review of the frequently used term “Palestinian civilian” as well as a commitment to truth are necessary steps in resolving the current conflict.

The piece, titled “It’s Time to Start Using the Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ Correctly,” begins by pointing to the “shocking revelation” that the four Israeli hostages rescued last week from Gaza were held in the homes of Palestinian civilians — including a popular journalist and respected physician.

With the successful operation “amazingly” condemned by the UN as a “war crime” and labeled a “massacre” by the EU, and as media outlets echoed casualty figures from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, the authors insisted now is the “perfect opportunity for a long-overdue conversation about the use of the phrase ‘Palestinian civilian.’”

More here: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...fter-hostage-rescue-reveals-hamas-complicity/

Terrorists are civilians.

 

[ll74]

Legal, Military Experts Call to Reevaluate Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ After Hostage Rescue Reveals Hamas Complicity​

JOSHUA KLEIN20 Jun 2024

In light of the recent dramatic rescue of four Israeli hostages held by Palestinian civilians, a legal expert and military specialist are urging a reevaluation of use of the term “Palestinian civilian,” arguing that those participating in hostilities, such as hostage-taking and other Hamas crimes, lose their civilian status under international law.

In an essay published in Newsweek on Monday, international human rights lawyer Arsen Ostrovsky along with retired United States Army major and world-renowned urban and warfare expert John Spencer, suggest that a review of the frequently used term “Palestinian civilian” as well as a commitment to truth are necessary steps in resolving the current conflict.

The piece, titled “It’s Time to Start Using the Term ‘Palestinian Civilian’ Correctly,” begins by pointing to the “shocking revelation” that the four Israeli hostages rescued last week from Gaza were held in the homes of Palestinian civilians — including a popular journalist and respected physician.

With the successful operation “amazingly” condemned by the UN as a “war crime” and labeled a “massacre” by the EU, and as media outlets echoed casualty figures from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, the authors insisted now is the “perfect opportunity for a long-overdue conversation about the use of the phrase ‘Palestinian civilian.’”

More here: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...fter-hostage-rescue-reveals-hamas-complicity/

Terrorists are civilians.

People who participate in hostilities are not civilians.

Correct.

 

[censurat]

People who participate in hostilities are not civilians.

Correct.

you only know that after the fact

 

[ll74]

you only know that after the fact

Sometimes, that is correct.

 

[KeithD]

Israel declared its independence,

Tilt. Israel never had a "declared its independence" phase. Israel was never dependent. Zionists invaded Palestine over the attempts of the then allied nations to prevent them doing so, declared the existence of Israel, and started pushing out and subjugating those who were already there.

Have you actually researched the establishment of Israel?

 

[mrno]

Where would they demonstrate? Rafah? Warzone.

Difficult to demonstrate.

Not to mention, the people who created the warzone typically aren't supported.

I say this with all understanding that Hamas initiated this. The people of Gaza will not be demonstrating at all...they're busy moving to shelters.

Not just demonstrate now. Were there EVER demonstrations for peace, for opposition to Hamas?

 

[ll74]

Not just demonstrate now. Were there EVER demonstrations for peace, for opposition to Hamas?

You ask that a lot.

 

[Rightguide]

People who participate in hostilities are not civilians.

Correct.

Stop with the Bullshit. Terrorists do not have military status under the law of war.

 

[ll74]

Stop with the Bullshit. Terrorists do not have military status under the law of war.

I never said anything about military status.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Tilt. Israel never had a "declared its independence" phase. Israel was never dependent. Zionists invaded Palestine over the attempts of the then allied nations to prevent them doing so, declared the existence of Israel, and started pushing out and subjugating those who were already there.

Have you actually researched the establishment of Israel?

Jews never "invaded" Palestine. They were living there along with the Arabs under the British mandate. What the Zionists did was put pressure on the British to end their colonial rule and partition the territory into Jewish and Arab spheres. The Jewish part became Israel, and the Arab part became Jordan. Almost immediately after Israel was formed, its Arab neighbors expelled their Jews and attacked the new Jewish nation.

For example this is the Jewish city of Tev Aviv in the 1930's, more than 10 years before Israel was founded.

 

[Rightguide]

I never said anything about military status.

That makes them civilians.

 

[KeithD]

Jews never "invaded" Palestine. They were living there along with the Arabs under the British mandate. What the Zionists did was put pressure on the British to end their colonial rule and partition the territory into Jewish and Arab spheres. The Jewish part became Israel, and the Arab part became Jordan. Almost immediately after Israel was formed, its Arab neighbors expelled their Jews and attacked the new Jewish nation.

For example this is the Jewish city of Tev Aviv in the 1930's, more than 10 years before Israel was founded.

View attachment 2358498

Wow. Ever seen the movie "Exodus"? Are you purposely ignoring my specification of "Zionists"? Do you have any understanding of who the Zionists were/are? Are you denying the continuous dislocation of Palestinians from their traditional homes in what is now Israel? If so, you are off-the-chart bonkers.

 

[ll74]

That makes them civilians.

Civilians don't engage in hostilities.

Round and round we go.

 

[Lazaran]

Are you purposely ignoring

Irony ^.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Wow. Ever seen the movie "Exodus"? Are you purposely ignoring my specification of "Zionists"? Do you have any understanding of who the Zionists were/are? Are you denying the continuous dislocation of Palestinians from their traditional homes in what is now Israel? If so, you are off-the-chart bonkers.

The Zionist movement began in the 19th Century to build a Jewish homeland in the Levant. Initially, the Zionists purchased marginal land from Arabs who were happy to sell it. For example, the city of Tel Aviv was founded on sand dunes north of Jaffa. When the British took over Palestine from the Turks after World War I, the Zionists started pressuring the British to give up on Palestine as a colony and return it to the Jews and Arabs living there.

The Jewish population in Palestine swelled in the 1930s with Jews fleeing from the Nazis. When Zionist pressure on Britain finally worked in the 1940s, the population of the new nation of Israel grew further as they took in the Jews who were expelled from Arab-controlled countries like Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, and Iran.

 

[KeithD]

When Zionist pressure on Britain finally worked in the 1940s, the population of the new nation of Israel grew further as they took in the Jews who were expelled from Arab-controlled countries like Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, and Iran.

And this was when they started to displace non-Jews in Palestine. You simply refuse to accept the reality that there were non-Jews in Palestine and that Israel has systematically subjugated and displaced them since 1948.

I've had enough of your failure to be fair about this. Off you go on ignore.

 

[KeithD]

Irony ^.

I'm game. What is it you think I'm ignoring? And before you come up with some knee-jerk response, be sure to review my posts to ensure I've ignored something. I've only dwelled on the Palestinians' subjugation and displacement because posters like you won't admit it happened/is happening.

Be careful. because I've just about had enough of your pigheadedness on this issue too.

 

[Lazaran]

I'm game. What is it you think I'm ignoring? And before you come up with some knee-jerk response, be sure to review my posts to ensure I've ignored something. I've only dwelled on the Palestinians' subjugation and displacement because posters like you won't admit it happened/is happening.

Be careful. because I've just about had enough of your pigheadedness on this issue too.

I see you just put BSG on ignore for blowing up your biased, myopic narrative.

Thin skinned impotent little tyrant.



And: “Be careful" ???



GTFO

“Off you go to ignore”.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

And this was when they started to displace non-Jews in Palestine. You simply refuse to accept the reality that there were non-Jews in Palestine and that Israel has systematically subjugated and displaced them since 1948.

I've had enough of your failure to be fair about this. Off you go on ignore.

You refuse to accept that there were Jews living in Palestine before Israel was created in 1948. Many of the first citizens of Israel were Jews fleeing from Arab massacres in the surrounding states. That’s why there are lots of Arabs in Israel, but no Jews in Egypt or Iran.

The last Jew in Yemen died a few days ago in his 90s. He was the last survivor of a Jewish community that had existed continuously since before the destruction of the 2nd Temple by the Romans. Most Yemeni Jews were driven out by the Arabs in the late 1940s.

 

[KeithD]

I see you just put BSG on ignore for blowing up your biased, myopic narrative.

Thin skinned impotent little tyrant.



And: “Be careful" ???



GTFO

“Off you go to ignore”.

No, I didn't think you'd have anything to back up your claim I've been ignoring anything on this issue. Bye.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Remind me again what precipitated / necessitated the Israeli settlements in Gaza and The West Bank after Israel declared independence post WWII and the ACTUAL genocide that had been perpetrated against the Jews???


Remind me again what happened when the Israelis abandoned the settlements in Gaza???


The fact is: The Arabs / Muslims in the region have been playing “Boil the frog” with Israel since Israel declared its independence, by engaging in perpetual open warfare, terror attacks, and gray-zone warfare, in a transparent attempt to wear down the Israeli’s resolve, and to steal / appropriate ALL of the Israeli’s hard won territory and treasure.

FUCK THAT ^ !!!

You really want to go there?
Hokay...back in 1967 at the end of the Six Day War, Israel refused to cede back conquered territory in Gaza to the rightful owners, Egypt. They unilaterally abrogated their commitment to the Geneva Accords. Since then, Gaza has been referred to as "Illegal Military Occupied Territory" by the United Nations.

Israel ran little "detention camps" for military age Palestinians inside Gaza until 2005, perfecting the art of holding civilians without charges indefinitely (which they do to this day within the relative safety of Israeli borders). Israel removed their troops in 2005 and created a naval blockade of Gaza shortly afterwards. A "naval blockade" is technically an act of war, but as Israel often opines "treaty, schmeaty".

Since then Israel has kept a slow suffocation of the Palestinian people in Gaza. When Israel fucked up and left the landside borders undefended, they suffered civilian casualties when the "prisoners" revolted. Now Israel is engaged in genocidal action against Gaza, and world opinion has turned decisively against feckless Israel's cowardly actions.

Here is a good synopsis of Israel's tyrannical occupation of Gaza
https://i.imgur.com/1KSnXfz.png

 

[Lazaran]

You really want to go there?
Hokay...back in 1967 at the end of the Six Day War, Israel refused to cede back conquered territory in Gaza to the rightful owners, Egypt.

You were soooooo close here.



And once again, you suggest with your lazy twitter rebuttal that Israel is solely responsible for the Palestinian’s plight.

Are you a KeithD alt???