Florida Supreme Court Abortion Referendum decision today!

[BabyBoomer50s]

You didn't and he won't.

lol. I know.

 

[Lazaran]

firstly, you seem to be arguing that I believe the Initiative process is what's being debated. It isn't. What is, is the content of this PARTICULAR measure and what it will do to California.

As far as The Initiative process, yes California does have that in the constitution citizens can place a measure on the ballot subject to the requirements set out in the constitution. BUT they do not have a provision to automatically require a vote on an action taken by the government. That is what this measure calls for, an automatic vote on any tax (defined in the measure as any charge levied by the government) which is direct Democracy and will slow the government to a crawl. What then? Is everyone who voted for this going to start to screaming because the water isn't flowing to their faucets because there are no funds to fix it and those funds will not be available until a tax is passed by the people and the legislature, which could take years?

I distinctly remember several discussions in the past where you, AJ and Ish all took exception to people using the term "Democracy" to refer to the government and insisted we are under a Republic. you all insisted we voice our voter opinions through our elected officials. that's what I'm referencing.

Comshaw

BabyBoobs is just trying to "win".

It doesn’t matter that the two issues / situations are not even remotely similar, only that a ballot referendum is being opposed by both governors through the court.

This is the best quote / take on what the California court is being asked to decide:

“As the court decides whether to take the measure off the ballot, it wants to know two things: First, would the measure change the state constitution, which ballot initiatives are not allowed to do? And second, would it impair essential government functions?

"It's a fascinating case," said McGeorge School of Law Professor Chris Micheli. "It really does boil down to this question: What's the extent of the power of the people and what's the extent of the legislative power?"

So…not at all comparable to the abortion referendum that Ron DeFascist is trying to block.




It’s another attempt by a right wing sociopath (BabyBoobs) to push the bullshit "bothsides" narrative.

Decent, intelligent people see right through BabyBoobs’ false equivalencies and gaslighting.

BabyBoobs doesn’t like that ^.

Poor BabyBoobs.



BabyBoobs

 

[Comshaw]

If you want to try and find something specific that I’ve posted which contradicts my post on Gavin Newsom’s shameful effort to block the TPA citizen’s ballot initiative from the CA statewide ballot, knock yourself out.

To paraphrase one of the denizens on this board, WTF are you talking about? When did I EVER state that you contradicted yourself?

But here is something specific to explain, in plain easy to understand language, what the measure will do. and if you don't think it will do these things, please feel free to say why.

Resolution to Oppose Initiative 21-0042A1 restricting local measures to fund local services

As I said, the opposition isn't about "...Newsom wanting to deny voters their right to decide." (your words). The voters, through their elected officials, have every right to decide.

The interesting thing here is you still haven't addressed the points I brought up about the effect of this measure and how it will cripple the functioning of the government. Will you or will you continue to argue a point I've already acquiesced to?

Comshaw

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

To paraphrase one of the denizens on this board, WTF are you talking about? When did I EVER state that you contradicted yourself?

But here is something specific to explain, in plain easy to understand language, what the measure will do. and if you don't think it will do these things, please feel free to say why.

Resolution to Oppose Initiative 21-0042A1 restricting local measures to fund local services

As I said, the opposition isn't about "...Newsom wanting to deny voters their right to decide." (your words). The voters, through their elected officials, have every right to decide.

The interesting thing here is you still haven't addressed the points I brought up about the effect of this measure and how it will cripple the functioning of the government. Will you or will you continue to argue a point I've already acquiesced to?

Comshaw

Since this thread is about Florida’s issue, I’ve started a separate thread on Prop 13 and Newsom’s efforts to block the TPA. I’ll respond there.

 

[adrina]

https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/f...-rule-on-abortion-marijuana-amendments-today/

The Florida Supreme Court has until the end of the day to determine if voters will get to weigh in this November on two proposed amendments addressing abortion rights and recreational marijuana.

Apparently by 4pm today.

 

[adrina]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orida-ballot-state-supreme-court/73168293007/

It will be on the ballot.

 

[adrina]

Pot too. Ha!

 

[butters]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orida-ballot-state-supreme-court/73168293007/

It will be on the ballot.

remember those politicians (and their mouthpieces on here) who proclaimed that this sort of "women's issue" held little interest for "most" Americans, with the economy and the border significantly more impactful to voters?

woe betide the politicians who dismiss the abortion issue as a non-issue in their attempts to deny women a say in their own medical decisions... to deny women's voices, let's be fair.

 

[RobDownSouth]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orida-ballot-state-supreme-court/73168293007/

It will be on the ballot.

Wow. I did not expect that result!

"The people of Florida aren’t stupid. They can figure it out," Chief Justice Carlos Muniz, a DeSantis appointee, sai

Also noteworthy is the fact that the State Supreme Court is legally obligated to render decisions affecting elections by April 1st of an election year, and this Supreme Court withheld the decision until literally the last day legally possible.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Marijuana Decriminalization AND Abortion on the Florida Ballot in November.

Republicans are seriously FUCKED.

What will Florida law enforcement do if their favorite job perk ("Summary Justice" tasers for pot possession by Negros) is taken away?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orida-ballot-state-supreme-court/73168293007/

It will be on the ballot.

I'm sure Boomer will be along shortly to explain that it isn't relevant.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Florida SC may just have handed the state to Biden.

 

[jaF0]

"Attorney General Ashley Moody represented the state in its argument against the two proposed amendments. Moody's argument centered on her belief that neither amendment had been worded clear enough."


"No law shall prohibit, penalize, delay, or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient's health, as determined by the patient's healthcare provider. This amendment does not change the Legislature's constitutional authority to require notification to a parent or guardian before a minor has an abortion,"


https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2024/04/01/Florida-abortion-marijuana/1291711992910/



Seems quite clear to me.

 

[jaF0]

"The lawsuit challenging the ban was brought by Planned Parenthood, the American Civil Liberties Union and others. They argued the Florida Constitution’s unique privacy clause for more than 40 years has explicitly protected a right to abortion in the state and should remain in force."



No, no, no, wait, we didn't mean THAT kind of privacy!!!!



"Lawyers for the state, however, said when the privacy clause was adopted by voter referendum in 1980, few people understood it would cover abortion. They told the justices the clause was mainly meant to cover “informational privacy” such as personal records and not abortion."


https://apnews.com/article/florida-...court-ruling-6a4949fc7459afe9b5e298086a793126

 

[RobDownSouth]

I'm sure Boomer will be along shortly to explain that it isn't relevant.

Even BabyBoomer is gonna have a hard time spinning this as a "win" for Republicans.
Do you think he'll go with ad hom, red herring or false equivalency?
Honestly, I can see him going any one of a number of ways.

 

[jaF0]

You can't stop what's coming.

 

[adrina]

Even BabyBoomer is gonna have a hard time spinning this as a "win" for Republicans.
Do you think he'll go with ad hom, red herring or false equivalency?
Honestly, I can see him going any one of a number of ways.

False equivalency with a dash of red herring. And a spritz of ad hom.

Plus a sprinkle of deflection.

I see no reason why he would limit himself to just one.

 

[butters]

however this plays out at the election, what's important is that people have been given the right to vote on the issue that affects everyone... now they have to come make their voices heard, either for or against. i truly hope 'for' protection is the way this goes...with a bang!

 

[adrina]

Fun thing about Florida and DeSantis. Because FL SC approved the 15 week ban, the 6 week ban goes into effect on May 1st. So from May 1st until the election Florida women and families will get an up close and personal look at just how fucked up a 6 week ban is.

And that doesn't even touch any of the out of state abortion seekers from neighboring states with bans.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I'm sure Boomer will be along shortly to explain that it isn't relevant.

I’ve always maintained that because abortion isn’t addressed in the Constitution, policy matters belong with the people, not nine justices in robes. Florida, like many states, has a process that lets citizens bypass the state legislature and put proposals directly to the voters. The state court has determined the process for putting this measure on the ballot was lawfully conducted. Floridians will get to make their choice. That’s great.

As you know, California’s governor is trying to deny voters their right to decide on a tax measure they’ve properly qualified for the November ballot. I’m hoping the state supreme court follows the example set by the Florida court.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I’ve always maintained that because abortion isn’t addressed in the Constitution, policy matters belong with the people, not nine justices in robes. Florida, like many states, has a process that lets citizens bypass the state legislature and put proposals directly to the voters. The state court has determined the process for putting this measure on the ballot was lawfully conducted. Floridians will get to make their choice. That’s great.

yes they will, even though DeSantis and crew threw everything including the kitchen sink at the measure to keep it off the ballot.

As you know, California’s governor is trying to deny voters their right to decide on a tax measure they’ve properly qualified for the November ballot. I’m hoping the state supreme court follows the example set by the Florida court.

No actually I don't, and I don't really give a shit, but hey, we all know you do!! How about Hunter??? I heard his court case will move to trial. I'm sure that gave you a hardon when you read it...

 

[adrina]

I’ve always maintained that because abortion isn’t addressed in the Constitution, policy matters belong with the people, not nine justices in robes. Florida, like many states, has a process that lets citizens bypass the state legislature and put proposals directly to the voters. The state court has determined the process for putting this measure on the ballot was lawfully conducted. Floridians will get to make their choice. That’s great.

As you know, California’s governor is trying to deny voters their right to decide on a tax measure they’ve properly qualified for the November ballot. I’m hoping the state supreme court follows the example set by the Florida court.

I find this argument interesting.

Especially in relation to things like qualified immunity, political parties, executive privilege, miranda rights etc.

If the litmus test is that it be in the constitution then we as a nation would not be able to function as all of the above - and so many other things - would disappear.

But it's just a smoke screen anyway. Just like states rights was.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

yes they will, even though DeSantis and crew threw everything including the kitchen sink at the measure to keep it off the ballot.

No actually I don't, and I don't really give a shit, but hey, we all know you do!! How about Hunter??? I heard his court case will move to trial. I'm sure that gave you a hardon when you read it...

Interesting that you claim you didn’t know that California’s governor was trying to block the TPA. I noted it in a post on this thread and you argued with me about it just last week. lol.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Interesting that you claim you didn’t know that California’s governor was trying to block the TPA. I noted it in a post on this thread and you argued with me about it just last week. lol.

On the bill? I doubt it.

I went back ten pages of my posts and I can't find anything where I commented on what California's doing. Me thinks your wrong, but feel free to find those posts and refresh my memory.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

On the bill? I doubt it.

I went back ten pages of my posts and I can't find anything where I commented on what California's doing. Me thinks your wrong, but feel free to find those posts and refresh my memory.

Sorry, that was Comshaw, not you.