closed Thread

[SlutAddicted]

A key thing to recognize when looking at historical context is that there was never a time when Hamas or its predecessors were not dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The narrative that Israel sought to oppress the Palestinians is false. It had no choice but to do so for its own safety. No doubt Israel is not above reproach. They have done some shitty things. And I am not condoning their current actions. But the notion that October 7 is the understandable outcome of some previous misdeeds doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

It is kind of like someone seeing me hold another man in a choke hold and criticizing me for my behaviour. But if you realize that the reason I have him in a choke hold is because he keeps trying to kill me that changes the picture doesn't it? Imagine if I release the chokehold and the man once again attacks me. Maybe I shouldn't have released him. Maybe I should have handled it another way. Maybe I could have found a way to defuse the situation that was less violent. But the premise that the attack was the understandable outcome of me putting him in a choke hold - when the only reason I did so was because he attacked me and tried to kill me - is bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

A key thing to recognize when looking at historical context is that there was never a time when Hamas or its predecessors were not dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The narrative that Israel sought to oppress the Palestinians is false. It had no choice but to do so for its own safety. No doubt Israel is not above reproach. They have done some shitty things. And I am not condoning their current actions. But the notion that October 7 is the understandable outcome of some previous misdeeds doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

It is kind of like someone seeing me hold another man in a choke hold and criticizing me for my behaviour. But if you realize that the reason I have him in a choke hold is because he keeps trying to kill me that changes the picture doesn't it? Imagine if I release the chokehold and the man once again attacks me. Maybe I shouldn't have released him. Maybe I should have handled it another way. Maybe I could have found a way to defuse the situation that was less violent. But the premise that the attack was the understandable outcome of me putting him in a choke hold - when the only reason I did so was because he attacked me and tried to kill me - is bullshit.

Hamas didn’t exist 30 years ago.

But the conditions of apartheid, settlement, and military rule undoubtedly did in the West Bank and Gaza due to Israeli occupation.

And have done since 1948.

Both can be correct - Hamas interested only in expelling Israelis from Israel and Israel interested in expelling Palestinians from modern day Israel and Palestinian land.

You seem to be of the opinion that the oppressed - the Palestinians - are more dangerous to Israel than Israel are to them. To date, there has not been a decade since 1948 that hasn’t ended with multitudes more Palestinians killed by Israel than the opposite way round.

A lot of historically dishonest commentary going on this evening, so I think I’ll do myself and my mental health a favour and call it a day.

Whatever side of the fence you decide you come down, there can never be a situation where it is morally correct to cut off water, aid, food, medical supplies, displace over 90% of a population, destroy over half the civilian infrastructure, deliberately flood aquifers with sewage water to get at “tunnels” nor is it morally correct to flatten schools, mosques, gp surgeries and basically every tenant of life.

It’s the level to which Israel has sought to “defend itself” which is the problem, not the original point which was to defend against terrorism.

The genocide act, which I’ve quoted, is pretty explicit and the defence for Israel’s actions given by their lawyers was summarily and completely rejected by the court.

Which frankly speaks volumes, and if it doesn’t to you, then maybe you’re part of the problem here.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Hamas didn’t exist 30 years ago.

But the conditions of apartheid, settlement, and military rule undoubtedly did in the West Bank and Gaza due to Israeli occupation.

And have done since 1948.

Both can be correct - Hamas interested only in expelling Israelis from Israel and Israel interested in expelling Palestinians from modern day Israel and Palestinian land.

You seem to be of the opinion that the oppressed - the Palestinians - are more dangerous to Israel than Israel are to them. To date, there has not been a decade since 1948 that hasn’t ended with multitudes more Palestinians killed by Israel than the opposite way round.

A lot of historically dishonest commentary going on this evening, so I think I’ll do myself and my mental health a favour and call it a day.

Whatever side of the fence you decide you come down, there can never be a situation where it is morally correct to cut off water, aid, food, medical supplies, displace over 90% of a population, destroy over half the civilian infrastructure, deliberately flood aquifers with sewage water to get at “tunnels” nor is it morally correct to flatten schools, mosques, gp surgeries and basically every tenant of life.

It’s the level to which Israel has sought to “defend itself” which is the problem, not the original point which was to defend against terrorism.

The genocide act, which I’ve quoted, is pretty explicit and the defence for Israel’s actions given by their lawyers was summarily and completely rejected by the court.

Which frankly speaks volumes, and if it doesn’t to you, then maybe you’re part of the problem here.

Hamas is just the latest iteration of Palestinian extremists going back to 1948. They didn't come into being because of something Israel did. They came into being because they thought the PLO wasn't being militant enough.

The Palestinians could have pursued a two state solution in 1948. They rejected it then just like they have several times since then.

Israel has kept them under their thumb. Often brutally. I don't condone that. But they had no choice. It has always been the case that if the Palestinians lay down arms they can negotiate peace whereas if the Israelis lay down arms they will be murdered. Tell me when it was otherwise if you want honest commentary.

The point isn't that I think the Palestinians are more dangerous than Israel. The point is that the Palestinians are the ones dedicated to violence. Israel was attacked upon inception and multiple times since then. Being good at defending themselves has been a necessity of survival. Culpability in war has nothing to do with which side has the most casualties.

I don't condone what Israel is doing now. There are element in their leadership whose objectives are arguably malign. What I said was that the basic premise that Oct. 7 was somehow a response to some kind of unchecked or unprovoked aggression on the part of Israel is nonsense.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Do the Palestinians not have a right to live in theirs?

Two states, sharing the land.

By your logic, America should give itself back to the native Americans.

Would you be willing to do that?

Yes they do have that right. They could have established a state in 1948. A two state solution has been on the table many times since then. Every time it was the Palestinians who rejected it in favour the goal of the complete annihilation of Israel.

I don't hold Israel blameless. In many ways they are a brutal occupier of the West Bank and Gaza. They should do better. But it must be said that they didn't choose that role. It was foisted upon them by the Palestinians and neighbouring countries who keep trying to murder them all.

 

[NRBonz]

And what about from Africa??? Hell, Mozambique even has an M16 image on the National flag.
But I assume all such weapons are properly stored and accounted for?

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Hamas is just the latest iteration of Palestinian extremists going back to 1948. They didn't come into being because of something Israel did. They came into being because they thought the PLO wasn't being militant enough.

The Palestinians could have pursued a two state solution in 1948. They rejected it then just like they have several times since then.

Israel has kept them under their thumb. Often brutally. I don't condone that. But they had no choice. It has always been the case that if the Palestinians lay down arms they can negotiate peace whereas if the Israelis lay down arms they will be murdered. Tell me when it was otherwise if you want honest commentary.

The point isn't that I think the Palestinians are more dangerous than Israel. The point is that the Palestinians are the ones dedicated to violence. Israel was attacked upon inception and multiple times since then. Being good at defending themselves has been a necessity of survival. Culpability in war has nothing to do with which side has the most casualties.

I don't condone what Israel is doing now. There are element in their leadership whose objectives are arguably malign. What I said was that the basic premise that Oct. 7 was somehow a response to some kind of unchecked or unprovoked aggression on the part of Israel is nonsense.

Yes they do have that right. They could have established a state in 1948. A two state solution has been on the table many times since then. Every time it was the Palestinians who rejected it in favour the goal of the complete annihilation of Israel.

I don't hold Israel blameless. In many ways they are a brutal occupier of the West Bank and Gaza. They should do better. But it must be said that they didn't choose that role. It was foisted upon them by the Palestinians and neighbouring countries who keep trying to murder them all.

You are talking about a country, Palestine, which never had a formal army, has been under occupation by various nations for over a century, including mine, the UK.

The Palestinians and their factions have accepted every set of accords and every road map so far in the entire peace process, since 1967. Yes, you have militant factions who want to take all of Israel back as Palestine, but most don’t and virtually everyone involved recognises this isn’t feasible now.

However, every single set of peace accords since 1967 has been broken by Israel with settlement projects, militant rule, and killing of Palestinians. That’s factual. This has ramped up since 7 October 2023.

There’s plenty of evidence you can go and check on this across social media. Israel has been utterly brutal for the last 20 years in particular, since they “left” Gaza (just look up the materials blockade Israel have enforced on Gaza and the West Bank).

(The oppressor claiming they are the victims rather than their actual victims is classic genocidal rhetoric. We had to kill them, otherwise they’d have killed us, with no evidence of this given. Very 1930s).

Arguing that you need to defend against an oppressed people with no formal army, no tanks, no warships, no air force, very very few examples of any actual weaponry outside of thrown together weapons and improvised rockets and old AK-47s when Israel has the second highest military funding in the entire world, backed up by the biggest military and economy in the western world Is a nonsense.

Lebanon to the North is one of the poorest countries in the area. Syria to the North East is anotherin the same vein. Egypt holds the southern border with Israel. None of these countries have the military might or the impetus, or even the desire to attack Israel and have spent the last five months trying to not get involved (Hezbollah aside in southern Lebanon, watching the carpet bombing from over the border).

Israel’s actions are making it almost impossible for it to survive this as a nation. If they continue to act in the way they do, I fear for them, becoming a Pariah state.

Russia has survived economic sanctions by western nations because it’s too big to fail.

I think Israel need to tread carefully because if they lose the backing of the USA, this whole campaign - which is absolutely about land, not religion, and certainly not about 7 October 2023 - is going to result in Israel finding it has few friends of relevance, surrounded by enemies it itself is giving reasons to hate it. Saudi Arabia’s statements on normalisation point to this quite clearly.

 

[SlutAddicted]

You are talking about a country, Palestine, which never had a formal army, has been under occupation by various nations for over a century, including mine, the UK.

The Palestinians and their factions have accepted every set of accords and every road map so far in the entire peace process, since 1967. Yes, you have militant factions who want to take all of Israel back as Palestine, but most don’t and virtually everyone involved recognises this isn’t feasible now.

However, every single set of peace accords since 1967 has been broken by Israel with settlement projects, militant rule, and killing of Palestinians. That’s factual. This has ramped up since 7 October 2023.

There’s plenty of evidence you can go and check on this across social media. Israel has been utterly brutal for the last 20 years in particular, since they “left” Gaza (just look up the materials blockade Israel have enforced on Gaza and the West Bank).

(The oppressor claiming they are the victims rather than their actual victims is classic genocidal rhetoric. We had to kill them, otherwise they’d have killed us, with no evidence of this given. Very 1930s).

Arguing that you need to defend against an oppressed people with no formal army, no tanks, no warships, no air force, very very few examples of any actual weaponry outside of thrown together weapons and improvised rockets and old AK-47s when Israel has the second highest military funding in the entire world, backed up by the biggest military and economy in the western world Is a nonsense.

Lebanon to the North is one of the poorest countries in the area. Syria to the North East is anotherin the same vein. Egypt holds the southern border with Israel. None of these countries have the military might or the impetus, or even the desire to attack Israel and have spent the last five months trying to not get involved (Hezbollah aside in southern Lebanon, watching the carpet bombing from over the border).

Israel’s actions are making it almost impossible for it to survive this as a nation. If they continue to act in the way they do, I fear for them, becoming a Pariah state.

Russia has survived economic sanctions by western nations because it’s too big to fail.

I think Israel need to tread carefully because if they lose the backing of the USA, this whole campaign - which is absolutely about land, not religion, and certainly not about 7 October 2023 - is going to result in Israel finding it has few friends of relevance, surrounded by enemies it itself is giving reasons to hate it. Saudi Arabia’s statements on normalisation point to this quite clearly.

Lol, what does the absence of a formal army have to do with anything.

"Gee Mr. Schwartz I'm sorry they raped, murdered and mutilated your wife and daughters, but they would never be able to conquer Israel so don't worry about it."

The reality is that there has never been a time when they were not subject to threat of terrorism. It sucks that the terrorists drag their entire population into the mess. It sucks that Israel can't realistically distinguish the terrorists from innocents. But it was the terrorists that did that, not Israel. No nation on earth would be expected to not strike back at the terrorists even if there is collateral damage.

As for the neighbours they have on repeated occasions attacked Israel in all out war. They lost every time but that is no guarantee that will always be the case. And Iran arguably represents a bigger risk than they ever did. If that isn't enough evidence of their intention to kill Israelis just ask Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. They have said so repeatedly.

It is true that none of these countries or groups (with the possible exception of Iran) has the military might to defeat Israel. But they will the minute they do have enough power. And in the meantime they will lob rockets into civilian areas and commit terrorist attacks whenever possible. No nation on earth would be expected to accept that as a status quo.

None of this means I agree with what Israel is doing now. I'd like to see Saudi Arabia normalize relations in exchange for a two-state solution. Netanyahu needs to be removed from power and Hamas has to go. And a way must be found to put in place a Palestinian administration that represents its people and gives no quarter whatsoever to terrorists. Meanwhile Israel must rein in its extremists as well

It is a well worn phrase and I know that Israel has sometimes abused it but the reality has always been that they have no partner for peace. Some Palestinians have sought peace, but that is sort of meaningless as long as they are unable to control extremist groups that are metaphorically and literally committed to blowing up any real efforts at peace.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You are talking about a country, Palestine, which never had a formal army, has been under occupation by various nations for over a century, including mine, the UK.

The Palestinians and their factions have accepted every set of accords and every road map so far in the entire peace process, since 1967. Yes, you have militant factions who want to take all of Israel back as Palestine, but most don’t and virtually everyone involved recognises this isn’t feasible now.

However, every single set of peace accords since 1967 has been broken by Israel with settlement projects, militant rule, and killing of Palestinians. That’s factual. This has ramped up since 7 October 2023.

There’s plenty of evidence you can go and check on this across social media. Israel has been utterly brutal for the last 20 years in particular, since they “left” Gaza (just look up the materials blockade Israel have enforced on Gaza and the West Bank).

(The oppressor claiming they are the victims rather than their actual victims is classic genocidal rhetoric. We had to kill them, otherwise they’d have killed us, with no evidence of this given. Very 1930s).

Arguing that you need to defend against an oppressed people with no formal army, no tanks, no warships, no air force, very very few examples of any actual weaponry outside of thrown together weapons and improvised rockets and old AK-47s when Israel has the second highest military funding in the entire world, backed up by the biggest military and economy in the western world Is a nonsense.

Lebanon to the North is one of the poorest countries in the area. Syria to the North East is anotherin the same vein. Egypt holds the southern border with Israel. None of these countries have the military might or the impetus, or even the desire to attack Israel and have spent the last five months trying to not get involved (Hezbollah aside in southern Lebanon, watching the carpet bombing from over the border).

Israel’s actions are making it almost impossible for it to survive this as a nation. If they continue to act in the way they do, I fear for them, becoming a Pariah state.

Russia has survived economic sanctions by western nations because it’s too big to fail.

I think Israel need to tread carefully because if they lose the backing of the USA, this whole campaign - which is absolutely about land, not religion, and certainly not about 7 October 2023 - is going to result in Israel finding it has few friends of relevance, surrounded by enemies it itself is giving reasons to hate it. Saudi Arabia’s statements on normalisation point to this quite clearly.

“Palestine” is the name foreign colonizers gave to Judea to erase the fact that it was the homeland of the Jews. The exercise in doublespeak still has power to take in those who don’t know the history of the region.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Enjoying the pretzel logic used to justify destroying the entire medical infrastructure in Gaza.
You guys really have to dig deep to come up with a rationalization for these atrocities.
Perhaps a bit more "rape! rape! rape!" and '40 beheaded babbies" might help sway people.
....but at this point, I seriously doubt .
20th century Nazis == 21st century iDF

Lebensraum macht frei

 

[zipman]

How shocking.

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-calls-unrwa-chief-resign-hamas-center-under-gaza-hq-2024-2

 

[snailspace]

Biden has now become the enemy of Israel and the shield of Hamas

 

[ll74]

Biden has now become the enemy of Israel and the shield of Hamas

Wtf are you talking about?

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

How shocking.

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-calls-unrwa-chief-resign-hamas-center-under-gaza-hq-2024-2

But again, note this bit:

Although journalists were invited to visit the site, which Israeli military officials described as a "Hamas intelligence hub," the IDF did not provide definitive proof that Hamas militants had carried out operations in the tunnel, per The Associated Press.

Everything should be done on an evidence based approach. There’s been a huge amount of allegations out of Israel with no corresponding evidence provide.

The dossier that the British Channel 4 obtained on the UNWRA employees accused of abetting Hamas was astonishing, not because it proved the allegations, but because there was no evidence given whatsoever.

Biden has now become the enemy of Israel and the shield of Hamas

Wtf are you talking about?

I think this is likely because Biden described Israel’s attacks on Gaza as “over the top” yesterday.

Genuine question for the Americans among us - are you actually okay with the idea that Israel is more important than the United States of America?

Just looking at the US news and some of the Democrat and Republican commentary on Israel sounds like they’re basically using the USA to fund Israel’s activities, at the USA’s own cost politically and militarily?

It all sits uncomfortably with me - but then I’m not an American so I don’t have the full context.

 

[Noor]

But again, note this bit:



Everything should be done on an evidence based approach. There’s been a huge amount of allegations out of Israel with no corresponding evidence provide.

The dossier that the British Channel 4 obtained on the UNWRA employees accused of abetting Hamas was astonishing, not because it proved the allegations, but because there was no evidence given whatsoever.





I think this is likely because Biden described Israel’s attacks on Gaza as “over the top” yesterday.

Genuine question for the Americans among us - are you actually okay with the idea that Israel is more important than the United States of America?

Just looking at the US news and some of the Democrat and Republican commentary on Israel sounds like they’re basically using the USA to fund Israel’s activities, at the USA’s own cost politically and militarily?

It all sits uncomfortably with me - but then I’m not an American so I don’t have the full context.

I am sure the IDF has lots of evidence, whatever they shared with the UN secretary general, and threatened to share with the world, was enough for him to suddenly acknowledge the 10/7 massacre over a 100 days later.
The US funds a lot of countries, so I'm okay with it. Also Israel is a keystone country in the middle east in that it keeps the other countries from starting world war 3.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

I am sure the IDF has lots of evidence, whatever they shared with the UN secretary general, and threatened to share with the world, was enough for him to suddenly acknowledge the 10/7 massacre over a 100 days later.

The UN Secretary General acknowledged it on 7 October 2023:

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg...neral-regarding-the-situation-the-middle-east

I don’t know what evidence you are looking at, but what you’ve just said there was patently not true. I am curious: what made you say that when a quick google search proves that wrong so quickly?

Also, saying “I’m sure they have evidence” - great - show it then?

Every Palestinian has been condemned as a terrorist out of hand without any evidence to back that up (if anything, we can see, live, just how awful it is in Gaza right now and how untrue that is) - why the double standard to Israel?

The US funds a lot of countries, so I'm okay with it. Also Israel is a keystone country in the middle east in that it keeps the other countries from starting world war 3.

Israel has seemingly gone out of its way of late to derail virtually every peace accord and agreement it has been involved in. Not sure the evidence backs up your statement, at all.

 

[ll74]

I think this is likely because Biden described Israel’s attacks on Gaza as “over the top” yesterday.

Yah, everyone seems to elaborate on Snaily's obscure random comments except for snaily.

Genuine question for the Americans among us - are you actually okay with the idea that Israel is more important than the United States of America?

What does that mean?

Just looking at the US news and some of the Democrat and Republican commentary on Israel sounds like they’re basically using the USA to fund Israel’s activities, at the USA’s own cost politically and militarily?

We've been an ally of Israel since its inception. Supporting our allies does not mean them being more important than the US..... Most of the money we're using is really going to replenishment of our supplies while we give them our leftovers.

It all sits uncomfortably with me - but then I’m not an American so I don’t have the full context.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Yah, everyone seems to elaborate on Snaily's obscure random comments except for snaily.

Fair comment!

What does that mean?

So I was watching one of the Republican senators being interviewed on YouTube and he basically stated that he was in the senate in order to support Israel, which for me sits uncomfortably because you’re effectively saying a foreign power should have more power over the political stance of the USA than the citizens of the USA.

We've been an ally of Israel since its inception. Supporting our allies does not mean them being more important than the US..... Most of the money we're using is really going to replenishment of our supplies while we give them our leftovers.

That’s not how it is perceived abroad at the minute, it looks (with respect, my apologies) that the USA is aiding and abetting a genocide, albeit Biden’s rhetoric has ramped up of late in criticism.

 

[ll74]

Fair comment!



So I was watching one of the Republican senators being interviewed on YouTube and he basically stated that he was in the senate in order to support Israel, which for me sits uncomfortably because you’re effectively saying a foreign power should have more power over the political stance of the USA than the citizens of the USA.

To be fair, most US citizens don't vote for candidates for their foreign policy stances and, on average, foreign policy is not well understood. It's a difficult topic to gain interest when we are fairly isolated from the world. The Houthi attacks obviously have had an impact on prices in the US, but most Americans just like to blame the President because it's easier.

That’s not how it is perceived abroad at the minute, it looks (with respect, my apologies) that the USA is aiding and abetting a genocide, albeit Biden’s rhetoric has ramped up of late in criticism.

It's not easy for the US to walk the line. And yes, the administration has taken a harsher stance.... But it would take a lot to get the US to go against Israel. I think the better position will be for the US to ratchet up efforts with Qatar and the UK to arrange some sort of ceasefire or path to one.... And that is definitely going on behind the scenes.

 

[Lazaran]

How shocking.

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-calls-unrwa-chief-resign-hamas-center-under-gaza-hq-2024-2

Now how did that get there…

 

[Lazaran]

•
It has become apparent that there are zero degrees of separation between the Hamas animals who conducted the October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation, Palestinian "civilians" of fighting age, and the UN aid group in Gaza, etc.

With each new revelation, Israel’s wide ranging attacks against sites once considered "neutral" and individuals considered "noncombatants" become more justified.

Far from becoming less supportive of Israel’s current approach, I find myself becoming more determined to see Israel finish the job so this scene doesn’t play out again and again in years to come.

And a large part of that ^ is for the children of the Palestinian terrorists; their parents have failed them in a spectacularly heinous fashion.

The Arab and Muslim world has also failed the Palestinian children living in Gaza, etc, in a spectacularly heinous fashion.



JFC

SAD!!!

 

[RobDownSouth]

After yesterday's 'Superbowl Massacre' in Rafah, the Israeli army has now killed more CHILDREN in Gaza than Israeli has suffered in TOTAL casualties.

Seeing once again that Israel has NO regard for human life, I think it's only a matter of time until we see Gazans publicly disemboweling captured Israeli troops on live TV.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1756990510487449645

 

[RobDownSouth]

Wow. It seems that the Israeli Army is prohibited by law from raiding trucks supplying relief.
What can a poor Zionist do/
Put out a call on public television urging Israeli 'patriots' (*wink *nudge) to "assist" these aid convoys.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757053641515532542

Tricksy Zionists!

 

[Lazaran]

After yesterday's 'Superbowl Massacre' in Rafah, the Israeli army has now killed more CHILDREN in Gaza than Israeli has suffered in TOTAL casualties.

Seeing once again that Israel has NO regard for human life, I think it's only a matter of time until we see Gazans publicly disemboweling captured Israeli troops on live TV.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1756990510487449645

Tragically, and disgustingly, the Hamas animals have recruited and indoctrinated “MINORS”‘ into their terrorist ranks, so it isn’t surprising that there have been a significant number of "MINORS" killed by the IDF.

Also:

Every death in Gaza in on the heads of the Hamas animal’s leadership.

A release of ALL the living hostages (and a return of the bodies of those who are dead) and the surrender of the Hamas animal’s leadership would likely see an end to the major Israeli combat operations in Gaza. A demilitarization / disarmament of the entirety of Gaza would likely see an end to all hostilities.

*nods*

 

[snailspace]

After yesterday's 'Superbowl Massacre' in Rafah, the Israeli army has now killed more CHILDREN in Gaza than Israeli has suffered in TOTAL casualties.

Seeing once again that Israel has NO regard for human life, I think it's only a matter of time until we see Gazans publicly disemboweling captured Israeli troops on live TV.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1756990510487449645

Stop whining

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Tragically, and disgustingly, the Hamas animals have recruited and indoctrinated “MINORS”‘ into their terrorist ranks, so it isn’t surprising that there have been a significant number of "MINORS" killed by the IDF.

Also:

Every death in Gaza in on the heads of the Hamas animal’s leadership.

A release of ALL the living hostages (and a return of the bodies of those who are dead) and the surrender of the Hamas animal’s leadership would likely see an end to the major Israeli combat operations in Gaza. A demilitarization / disarmament of the entirety of Gaza would likely see an end to all hostilities.

+nods*

Stop whining

You are truly a pair of crackpots.

You talk about demilitarisation, when an entire country’s military has physically flattened a tiny area of land with one of the world’s highest people per square mile.

Gaza has no formal military. What is there to demilitarise? 30,000 Hamas members with AK47s and improvised rockets?

I bet that if all weaponry was removed from Hamas/Palestinians it still wouldn’t be enough. This hasn’t stopped the settler violence and murders in the west bank, where there is no Hamas.

12,300 children have been killed in just four months. 12,300.

Where is your humanity?