closed Thread

[ll74]

Indeed!! You are pretty naive, if you think that, and have never come across a Hamas-ISIS operative!! Have you ever been to the Middle East?

You keep saying that.

Peace is always achievable.

Those who say "but those people..." are typically the ones who make it difficult.

 

[silky52]

You keep saying that.

Peace is always achievable.

Those who say "but those people..." are typically the ones who make it difficult.

Yes, you are right peace is achievable, but my dear, dear peace lover (as am I), you just don't get it! There are indeed few people who do get it. I suggest that you listen to Douglas Murray. He totally gets what Islamists are up to, not just in Israel, but all over the world.

 

[ll74]

L

Yes, you are right peace is achievable, but my dear, dear peace lover (as am I), you just don't get it! There are indeed few people who do get it. I suggest that you listen to Douglas Murray. He totally gets what Islamists are up to, not just in Israel, but all over the world.

I get that you continually blame Palestinians and exonerate Israel. I don't really care why you feel your position is superior.

Either you want peace or you don't

 

[silky52]

L

I get that you continually blame Palestinians and exonerate Israel. I don't really care why you feel your position is superior.

Either you want peace or you don't

It is NOT superior! I am not a terrorist, and I have not committed crimes against humanity, they have. You don't seem to be able to grasp these facts! Do you deny October 7th? Are you so wokked out that you cannot see the truth?

 

[ll74]

It is NOT superior! I am not a terrorist, and I have not committed crimes against humanity, they have. You don't seem to be able to grasp these facts! Do you deny October 7th? Are you so wokked out that you cannot see the truth?

It is not superior.....except this is why I'm right and you're wrong.

Lmao

You want peace for Israel. Not peace overall.

 

[silky52]

It is not superior.....except this is why I'm right and you're wrong.

Lmao

You want peace for Israel. Not peace overall.

Only time will tell, who is right and who is wrong. Not you, or me! I very much hope that I am wrong. History tells the same story!

 

[ll74]

Only time will tell, who is right and who is wrong. Not you, or me! I very much hope that I am wrong. History tells the same story!

What is your perspective and what are you right about?

My perspective is that people who don't seek peace should be removed from leadership. Can you explain how I am wrong?

 

[silky52]

What is your perspective and what are you right about?

My perspective is that people who don't seek peace should be removed from leadership. Can you explain how I am wrong?

It's not that black and white! Wokism is what you are talking about! You are completely wrong about that. I don't believe that peace can be achieved at the moment, not with Hamas-ISIS. They don't want peace, they want to destroy the Jewish people. As I said, you obviously don't believe that October 7th happened.... or, if you do what it all meant!

Below is a video that you should listen to and perhaps understand what I am talking about.

 

[ll74]

It's not that black and white! Wokism is what you are talking about! You are completely wrong about that. I don't believe that peace can be achieved at the moment, not with Hamas-ISIS. They don't want peace, they want to destroy the Jewish people. As I said, you obviously don't believe that October 7th happened.... or, if you do what it all meant!

Below is a video that you should listen to and perhaps understand what I am talking about.

So you don't agree that people who aren't seeking peace should be removed from leadership? I understand that you blame Hamas for the violence.

I don't need to watch a video.

 

[silky52]

So you don't agree that people who aren't seeking peace should be removed from leadership? I understand that you blame Hamas for the violence.

I don't need to watch a video.

Of course you don't need to watch the video, but you might learn something, unless you know everything!!

You are wrong because no one knows everything, least of all me or you, and you are steadfast in your incorrect views, which you do not seek to investigate!

I said that it's not black and white. PM is seeking peace, but not at all costs, such as from the river to the sea!!!! Or releasing thousands of terrorists with the blood of Israelis on their hands. So that they can come back and murder, rape, behead, burn and mutilate Israelis including men, women, children and babies AGAIN in our beds!

 

[ll74]

Of course you don't need to watch the video, but you might learn something, unless you know everything!!

Videos created by people contain narratives by those people. Not interested.

You are wrong because no one knows everything, least of all me or you, and you are steadfast in your incorrect views, which you do not seek to investigate!

I've never claimed to know everything, nor have I claimed my position is superior.

I said that it's not black and white. PM is seeking peace, but not at all costs, such as from the river to the sea!!!! Or releasing thousands of terrorists with the blood of Israelis on their hands. So that they can come back and murder, rape, behead, burn and mutilate Israelis including men, women, children and babies AGAIN in our beds!

Israel is not seeking peace.

 

[silky52]

Videos created by people contain narratives by those people. Not interested.



I've never claimed to know everything, nor have I claimed my position is superior.


Israel is not seeking peace.

Your words say that you think you know everything!!

Anyone who thinks that they know everything thinks their opinions are superior too, such as your last comment.

Absolute, BS!

 

[ll74]

Your words say that you think you know everything!!

I know that peace is better than war and that leadership does not want peace currently. That has been demonstrated every day.

Anyone who thinks that they know everything thinks their opinions are superior too, such as your last comment.

I don't know everything. I also don't trust people who blame one side consistently.

Absolute, BS!

If Israel was seeking peace, they wouldn't be carrying out bombing.

 

[RobDownSouth]

My feeling is we should go after Iran, they use proxies for a reason, to protect themselves from blame. We have hit them in the past and they've done nothing. We need to hit them again and when doing so forget this nonsense about a "proportional response." If we do hit them, it should be with overwhelming force with a crippling result if we're looking for effective deterrence. The targets should be their leadership, strategic economic targets, and or their ability to make war, including their nuclear capabilities.

In two decades of shitposting, under a myriad of usernames and backstories, there have been two constants in your time here: your fascination with men's genitalia and bodily fluids; and your insistence on military strikes as a first option to perceived threats, both real and imagined.

Your insistence on seeing the world in terms of absolute black or absolute white shows the drawbacks inherent in the lack of critical thinking. Therapy might've helped when you were younger, alas, you're beyond redemption now.

So we'll sit here and shake our heads sadly at the trainwreck of a man you've become. You had so little potential to begin with, but you somehow managed to fritter that away as well.

 

[ll74]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752429990900109518

 

[policywank]

I don't think that I can realistically put myself in the shoes of an Israeli in this conflict, but in principle if I were an Israeli I would want a leader(s) who is interested in peace.

While I do believe that Israel in general is more interested in peace than their neighbours it does seem that there are some more extreme individuals who don't share this view. Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by just such an individual and there are ample examples of Jewish extremists actions to further this point. But I have no idea just how much sway those individuals hold in Israeli politics. Reality is that every country has its extremists and every democratic country gives them some voice. If we took the comments of the most extreme politician in any country as representative of the population or the government that would be both alarming and misleading. As a Canadian I see Americans as our friend and neighbour and cousin in many ways - but there are some serious whack jobs in positions of power just as there is here in Canada (although we have a bigger problem with woke pussies, but that is another story) and I have paid close enough attention for long enough to know that they aren't necessarily representative of the population or the leadership. Democracy can be messy and Israel in particular is known for its somewhat messy democracy. But it must be said that it is the only democracy in the region and I do believe that there would be a lot less turmoil if their hostile neighbours also had to answer to their people. All that is to say I don't have a good bead on just how much the current leadership is or isn't interested in peace.

What I do know is that whether or not they are sufficiently invested or interested in peace cannot simply be observed from whether or not they engage in hostile acts and sadly yes that does include hostile acts that affect innocent civilians. History and our daily lives are filled with examples of people who were compelled to use force to make the peace. Meanwhile the often devastating impact on civilian infrastructure and lives is well established.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Israel's actions in Gaza are necessary or justified. I am just saying that the fact that the results are unpleasant and unsettling is not the only deciding factor in my mind. It is a factor. It just isn't the only factor.

One of the important factors is the intent of the enemy. Consider the major conflicts of the middle of the last century. The Cold War was characterized by deep distrust and animosity. And in many ways both sides would like to have brought the other side to their way of thinking or even conquer them in some political sense. But - notwithstanding rhetoric - neither side was bound and determined to destroy the other. So, aside from the occasional flair up we mostly agreed to dislike each other but not enter actual military hostilities. Conversely WW2 was characterized by a murderous genocidal regime intent on conquest and destruction. There was no choice. It was them our us.

Now with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight what was the Allies biggest mistake in WW2? It came before the war. It was giving the Nazis enough time and space to get strong enough to pursue their goals of genocide and conquest because we didn't take them at their word as to the true nature of their intentions. We arrogantly believed that we could win them over with diplomacy and that if that failed we had sufficient military strength to defeat them. And we clung to that faint hope until it was damn near too late. Ring any bells?

Does that mean Israels actions in Gaza are necessary and justified. No it doesn't. It just means we need to look at everything and not just focus on the parts that are unpleasant.

 

[Rightguide]

I hope you are wrong. He's a liar, a thief, narcissist and trying to escape prosecution. He will not admit responsibility for the atrocities that were committed by Hamas-ISIS on October 7th. He is a coward. However, you are right he has a lot of supporters, both in Israel and abroad. I sincerely hope he does not get in again. Just like the US we need new blood and maybe someone who is only partially corrupt. IMHO all politicians are corrupt.

He is what he is, but It's up to the Israeli people to decide.

 

[silky52]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752429990900109518

Shame you don't like other people's much more real posted links. Shame on you for posting this!!

 

[ll74]

Shame you don't like other people's much more real posted links. Shame on you for posting this!!

Lol, what does that even mean?

This is literally a view of refugees fleeing.

 

[Purple_Fronds]

I think we can safely assume that Israel politics have been going through a hardline and a more intransigent period for some time. This is born out through their recent elections, their posture on settlements and many other stances they’ve taken irrespective of criticism they’ve received both domestically and internationally. What of course helps the Israel hardliners is that a lot of the international criticism comes from Europe which still suffers with significant ant-semitism and has a very shaky moral ground already.

The problem with the Israel government’s current strategy is that there’s no end game, the numbers are just not in their favor and what ever people’s position around the world is, most people have a thought on the total number of deaths that would trigger a response of going to far. Maybe there is no consensus of what the acceptable ratio of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths is, but we’re approaching 20 to 1. However, even at 50 thousand Palestinian deaths, which is a similar number to what the US lost in the Vietnam conflict was deemed ok by the rest of the world, this is still a drop in the bucket of the 2.2 million Palestinians that live in Gaza.

In terms of WW2 and the notion that somehow faster action was possible I think is incorrect, Germany was still a significant force to be reckoned with and although they might have been economically ruined, their industrial output was still formidable especially as all the fighting in ww1 had took place on other people‘s land. In short even if there was a desire for Britain and France to rush into war, it is very unlikely they would have been successful.

 

[policywank]

I think we can safely assume that Israel politics have been going through a hardline and a more intransigent period for some time. This is born out through their recent elections, their posture on settlements and many other stances they’ve taken irrespective of criticism they’ve received both domestically and internationally. What of course helps the Israel hardliners is that a lot of the international criticism comes from Europe which still suffers with significant ant-semitism and has a very shaky moral ground already.

The problem with the Israel government’s current strategy is that there’s no end game, the numbers are just not in their favor and what ever people’s position around the world is, most people have a thought on the total number of deaths that would trigger a response of going to far. Maybe there is no consensus of what the acceptable ratio of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths is, but we’re approaching 20 to 1. However, even at 50 thousand Palestinian deaths, which is a similar number to what the US lost in the Vietnam conflict was deemed ok by the rest of the world, this is still a drop in the bucket of the 2.2 million Palestinians that live in Gaza.

In terms of WW2 and the notion that somehow faster action was possible I think is incorrect, Germany was still a significant force to be reckoned with and although they might have been economically ruined, their industrial output was still formidable especially as all the fighting in ww1 had took place on other people‘s land. In short even if there was a desire for Britain and France to rush into war, it is very unlikely they would have been successful.

The point about WW2 wasn't about faster military action. It is about how indulging in the fallacy that Hitler could be appeased was detrimental to the Allies.

It is clear that in the years leading up to WW2 Hitler was building up his military with the intention of going to war. Negotiations and concessions (such as the Sudetenland) were a ruse that bought him more time. Likewise he had no intention of honouring the non-aggression pact with the Soviets. It was also a ruse to keep them out of the war until he controlled continental Europe. Would the outcome have been much different if the Western Allies had attacked earlier? As you said, probably not by much. Would it have been different if the Soviets hadn't taken the bait? That is more likely, but they arguably had more reason to think he would leave them alone and they didn't care if he conquered Europe.

But the point isn't that the Allies should have started a war earlier. The point is that they weakened their position in the eventual war by indulging in the fallacy and arguably the hubris that they could resolve the matter with diplomacy. Hitler had already laid out very clearly his feelings about the injustices done to Germany and the premise that the Germans needed "living space to the east". There is an old saying something along the lines of "when someone tells you who they are you should listen." Even if they did play along in the negotiations or even cling to the hope that they would work, the Allies should have been aggressively planning for the eventuality of war on the basis that Hitler would not be appeased. Some of that was going on but not nearly at the level that he was planning for war otherwise we wouldn't have been scrambling to ramp up military production while under attack while he was sitting on a giant war machine built up and ready to go.

Likewise Hamas has told us who they are. They do not want peace (their actions of Oct. 7 were arguably intended to precipitate war). They do not want a two-state solution. They want the eradication of Israel including the genocide of the Jewish people therein. Does that mean that Israel's current strategy is the right one? I really don't know. But it does mean that we should not indulge in the fallacy that their actions are all driven by their own perceived oppression and that they can be convinced to change their thinking. They are part of a long line of organizations going back to 1948 that called for the same genocidal objectives. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that they will be appeased. Meanwhile they have infiltrated Palestinian society and there is no reason to believe that will end or that the Palestinian Authority has any ability whatsoever to rein them in.

Whatever next steps Israel takes or the west promotes should not be based upon the expectation that what Hamas has already told the world is not how they really feel or that we have the ability to convince them to alter their position. They will use a ceasefire to re-arm. If a two state solution is imposed they will use their state to promote terror and prepare for the next attempt to eradicate Israel. Does the humanitarian situation justify a ceasefire anyway? Maybe. Is a two state solution the best way forward anyway? Maybe. But we can't afford to live in a world where we indulge in the fallacy of what we think that will look like when the most powerful voice among the Palestinians is telling us otherwise.

 

[silky52]

People who know the truth about Hamas-ISIS war on Israel, the Jews and in fact the world.

 

[silky52]

I have noted during this thread that it is rare that any of you speak about the things that Israel has suffered since October 7th.

1. The hostages, of whom there are 136, that Hamas-ISIS kidnapped after many were tortured in their beds before they were taken hostage, and many were also murdered on October 7th, HI took their bodies back to Gaza with them!! Israel does not know if the hostages taken alive, are dead or alive now.
Among those hostages are two babies, girls and boys who are still teenagers (of course they won't be after they come home). Female and Male soldiers who were simply guarding Israel. They were not in combat!!! They were not killing Gazan civilians. They were part of the terrible atrocities committed by HI, on October 7th.

2. Rockets and missiles were fired at Israel every day for over two months, several times a day both from Gaza and Lebanon. It was not until the IDF began making a difference that the rockets fired were less. However, this did not stop the rockets from being fired entirely. The fact is among the miles, and miles of tunnels that were built by HI they have tons and tons of weapons still in their possession. Just last week Tel Aviv and the centre of Israel was targeted with rockets. Now it is true that Israel is blessed with the Iron Dome, however there is still damage. There is damage to schools, where the debris falls from the destruction of these rockets by the Iron Dome. The Iron Dome does not magically take them out of the skies!! The rockets have destroyed houses, have landed in the street, have landed in cars, and really even in Tel Aviv they only have two minutes to get to a safe place. If you are driving, it is rarely possible to get to a safe place in that time. One simply has to turn the engine off, get out of the car and move away from it and then lie on the ground with your hands over your head.

3. The fact is over 100,000 Israelis are displaced from the north of the country due to Hezbollah firing rockets and ATGMs (for which there is no warning). Many, many houses have been destroyed in the north of Israel, plus businesses and people who decided to stay to tend to their farms, and farm animals such as chickens etc. Their lives are ruined!!

4. The fact is 200,000 Israelis are displaced from the south of the country due to the atrocities perpetrated by HI on October 7th. Many who were lucky enough to survive, are living in hotel rooms with families. Many had their houses burnt down by HI, they have nowhere to go back to!! Their lives are ruined!!

5. Regarding what the world calls Humanitarian Aid!! Israel has complied with the request for this aid. Have HI done their part? NO. The Red Cross was supposed to visit the hostages. That was in a signed agreement with the first release of hostages. It did not happen. However, the aid continues to go through to the civilian Gazans, if it ever gets to them! HI systematically takes the aid and distributes it among themselves!! That is a fact which is documented. Two weeks ago HI requested medication. Israel allowed medication to enter Gaza providing the hostages were included in the distribution. Israel has absolutely no evidence that that medication was received by the hostages. Many of whom are in desperate need of it.

6. The Gazan civilians; now many of these people are in desperate need, why is that? It's not because of Israel that's for sure. Was it Israel that perpetrated atrocities upon the Gazan civilians? NO. Oh, right it was HI that carried out the atrocities! How terribly, terribly awful for those civilian Gazans. HI were warned that if they did execute their threats against Israel there would be consequences. The Gazan civilians are aware! How are they aware? Because HI did the same to them, but did they rise up against HI? NO, they voted for them in the last elections which were held more than 15 years ago! HI has had 15 years to plan all this. They teach in UNRWA schools children to kill Jews, how? Well, they give them guns and weapons and show them what has to be done. Why? Because they hate Israel and the Jews!! Do the Gazan civilians have the right to live in peace, of course they do, but peace can only beget peace when there are no atrocities committed against one side or the other.

7. Did Israel commit atrocities against Gazan civilians? NO. The people from the communities that were attacked on October 7th gave them work. Took their children and those in need from Gaza to Israeli hospitals, tried to help them whenever they could. Why? Because Israel does not teach war, or not want peace. Israelis believe that if one wants peace one has to act in a peaceful manner.

Please consider the above FACTS. If you got this far thank you. Am Yisrael Chai!!!

 

[ll74]

I have noted during this thread that it is rare that any of you speak about the things that Israel has suffered since October 7th.

1. The hostages, of whom there are 136, that Hamas-ISIS kidnapped after many were tortured in their beds before they were taken hostage, and many were also murdered on October 7th, HI took their bodies back to Gaza with them!! Israel does not know if the hostages taken alive, are dead or alive now.
Among those hostages are two babies, girls and boys who are still teenagers (of course they won't be after they come home). Female and Male soldiers who were simply guarding Israel. They were not in combat!!! They were not killing Gazan civilians. They were part of the terrible atrocities committed by HI, on October 7th.

2. Rockets and missiles were fired at Israel every day for over two months, several times a day both from Gaza and Lebanon. It was not until the IDF began making a difference that the rockets fired were less. However, this did not stop the rockets from being fired entirely. The fact is among the miles, and miles of tunnels that were built by HI they have tons and tons of weapons still in their possession. Just last week Tel Aviv and the centre of Israel was targeted with rockets. Now it is true that Israel is blessed with the Iron Dome, however there is still damage. There is damage to schools, where the debris falls from the destruction of these rockets by the Iron Dome. The Iron Dome does not magically take them out of the skies!! The rockets have destroyed houses, have landed in the street, have landed in cars, and really even in Tel Aviv they only have two minutes to get to a safe place. If you are driving, it is rarely possible to get to a safe place in that time. One simply has to turn the engine off, get out of the car and move away from it and then lie on the ground with your hands over your head.

3. The fact is over 100,000 Israelis are displaced from the north of the country due to Hezbollah firing rockets and ATGMs (for which there is no warning). Many, many houses have been destroyed in the north of Israel, plus businesses and people who decided to stay to tend to their farms, and farm animals such as chickens etc. Their lives are ruined!!

4. The fact is 200,000 Israelis are displaced from the south of the country due to the atrocities perpetrated by HI on October 7th. Many who were lucky enough to survive, are living in hotel rooms with families. Many had their houses burnt down by HI, they have nowhere to go back to!! Their lives are ruined!!

5. Regarding what the world calls Humanitarian Aid!! Israel has complied with the request for this aid. Have HI done their part? NO. The Red Cross was supposed to visit the hostages. That was in a signed agreement with the first release of hostages. It did not happen. However, the aid continues to go through to the civilian Gazans, if it ever gets to them! HI systematically takes the aid and distributes it among themselves!! That is a fact which is documented. Two weeks ago HI requested medication. Israel allowed medication to enter Gaza providing the hostages were included in the distribution. Israel has absolutely no evidence that that medication was received by the hostages. Many of whom are in desperate need of it.

6. The Gazan civilians; now many of these people are in desperate need, why is that? It's not because of Israel that's for sure. Was it Israel that perpetrated atrocities upon the Gazan civilians? NO. Oh, right it was HI that carried out the atrocities! How terribly, terribly awful for those civilian Gazans. HI were warned that if they did execute their threats against Israel there would be consequences. The Gazan civilians are aware! How are they aware? Because HI did the same to them, but did they rise up against HI? NO, they voted for them in the last elections which were held more than 15 years ago! HI has had 15 years to plan all this. They teach in UNRWA schools children to kill Jews, how? Well, they give them guns and weapons and show them what has to be done. Why? Because they hate Israel and the Jews!! Do the Gazan civilians have the right to live in peace, of course they do, but peace can only beget peace when there are no atrocities committed against one side or the other.

7. Did Israel commit atrocities against Gazan civilians? NO. The people from the communities that were attacked on October 7th gave them work. Took their children and those in need from Gaza to Israeli hospitals, tried to help them whenever they could. Why? Because Israel does not teach war, or not want peace. Israelis believe that if one wants peace one has to act in a peaceful manner.

Please consider the above FACTS. If you got this far thank you. Am Yisrael Chai!!!

We've talked about Oct 7 as well as post Oct 7.

You just don't like that we talk more about Gaza. There's a reason for this...Israel has protections against rocket attacks. Gaza has been levelled. Israelis have, for the most part, not been displaced from their homes. Gazans have, multiple times.

I have sympathy for anyone dealing with attacks on their homes....and their livelihoods....doesn't matter what flag they unite behind.

 

[silky52]

We've talked about Oct 7 as well as post Oct 7.

You just don't like that we talk more about Gaza. There's a reason for this...Israel has protections against rocket attacks. Gaza has been levelled. Israelis have, for the most part, not been displaced from their homes. Gazans have, multiple times.

I have sympathy for anyone dealing with attacks on their homes....and their livelihoods....doesn't matter what flag they unite behind.

You have sympathy for

We've talked about Oct 7 as well as post Oct 7.

You just don't like that we talk more about Gaza. There's a reason for this...Israel has protections against rocket attacks. Gaza has been levelled. Israelis have, for the most part, not been displaced from their homes. Gazans have, multiple times.

I have sympathy for anyone dealing with attacks on their homes....and their livelihoods....doesn't matter what flag they unite behind.

You don't know what you are talking about!