closed Thread

[RobDownSouth]

Efficiency.
https://i.imgur.com/Yzpp6MO.png

 

[Lazaran]

Efficiency.
https://i.imgur.com/Yzpp6MO.png

Yeah, the Hamas animals really suck for bringing that upon those innocent children with their October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation.

See also:

https://www.jns.org/jns/hamas/23/7/20/304361/

The headline:

Palestinians’ summer camps to kill Jews​

The next time Palestinians complain about minors being killed or injured while carrying out terror attacks against Israelis, it would be worthwhile recalling the scenes of children in the summer camps of the Gaza Strip,​

The sad reality of what Israel and the world outside of the Arab Muslim murder / death cults are dealing with.

 

[RobDownSouth]

International Criminal Court probe of Israel is ‘pure anti-Semitism,’ says PM​

Netanyahu​

Is that so?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You misunderstand Hamas. They are part of the consistent group of Palestinians who since 1947 have called for the destruction of Israel.

I do not misunderstand Hamas, any more than I misunderstand Netanyahu. Their records of opinions on what should happen to the other is there for anyone to read.

They are not a government in waiting. They do not want peace. They want Israel eliminated and as many jews as possible killed - that isn't hyperbole, it is their words.

Hamas isn't a government in anything. They took over the Democratic process and have through authoritism since 2006 kept power. Palestinians have not had a Democratic chance to voice their opinion since 2006.

While nobody is blameless the premise that terrorism grew out of the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli's is bullshit.

No shit, it was the fact that the powers of the day made promises to both sides, but only kept it for one side. You can attribute a lot of that to WW2 and the sympathy felt world wide(rightly) to the Jewish peoples.

From day 1 of the existence of Israel powerful factions within the Palestinian population (first the PLO and later Hamas) called for the destruction of Israel.

Maybe I shouldn't engage with you on this, you stated earlier you knew the history, by bringing in the PLO established in 1964, and Hamas founded in 1987 you show a major lack of education about a situation that has been on going since 1880.

No terrorism isn't simply a response to dissatisfaction

Yes it is. You're a Canadian, how many terrorist activities have the First Nations used since 1867? They have rightful claims, broken treaties, a long list of grievances against a government that had symptomatically tried to assimilate them.

At the heart of terrorism is hate and dissatisfaction.

unless you count not being able to impose your will on others as a source of dissatisfaction.

Yes that is a source of dissatisfaction, look to Trump and his supporters for a real world example in a Democratic country.
I never claimed terrorism was only from a single or a few reasons, there are many. It's reason for existence in the middle east didn't show up over night. It has been generations in the making.

If you feel my approach isn't viable, what is yours? More of the same? You throw out "two states",but that will only work if both populations agree to abide by it. Right now both sides hate each other. How do you break that cycle?

 

[silky52]

Everyone on this thread is completely unqualified to comment on the details of what is required for the battle. And just not engaging in or being capable of battling an enemy committed to the murder of your people is naive.



The long haul has to be the objective. They are under constant threat and there is nothing they can do to change that. Their existence relies upon being ready to defend at a moment's notice. Even western countries that are not subject to anywhere near the same kind of threat would not allow themselves to be left defenceless because they used up all the armaments.



So what is your point. Since they failed once they should do so again? Prior to October 7 they still believed in a policy of containment. Hamas changed that and Israel can't afford to repeat their mistake.



Again what is your point? Yes, it is a densely populated are in which it is difficult to conduct operations and avoid unnecessary casualties. That has all kinds of complex implications, but for Israel to leave its own citizens vulnerable to another attack because they don't have the stomach for tough decisions isn't one of them.


Afghanistan didn't have a labyrinth of tunnels under ground. Also in case you forgot the U.S. left Afghanistan in disarray and retreated back to the other side of the world after which the Taliban has reassumed control. Israel can't afford to have such a sloppy and pointless outcome.



I agree with the first part of this. By all means push for peace, but you can't just ignore the fact that the other party doesn't want peace. Why didn't the U.S. push for peace with the Taliban, or Al-Qaeda or ISIS? Peace is always preferable but if pushing for it means dropping your guard against someone bound and determined to murder you and your family that is a bit of a problem.

So well said, thank your for listening, and understanding the situation so well.

 

[silky52]

International Criminal Court probe of Israel is ‘pure anti-Semitism,’ says PM​

Netanyahu​

Is that so?

Of course it is! And I would not be at all surprised if there aren't those on this thread who are exactly the same!

 

[silky52]

The American billionaires' interests, i.e. the interests of Wall Street, the Pentagon and Silicon Valley. They send our federal taxes to Ukraine and Israel.

I do believe that all Americans, to say nothing of the rest of the world benefit from the shipping in the Red Sea. If shipping is impeded there, none of us will have much! It's nothing to do with Ukraine or Israel. Just so you know, Israel was ready to do the dirty work, but this is actually a world-wide problem now.

 

[ll74]

I do believe that all Americans, to say nothing of the rest of the world benefit from the shipping in the Red Sea. If shipping is impeded there, none of us will have much! It's nothing to do with Ukraine or Israel. Just so you know, Israel was ready to do the dirty work, but this is actually a world-wide problem now.

Yes, most goods from China traverse that area to the rest of the world. Without that ability, the ships must travel all the way around Africa, which will increase the price of goods incredibly.

 

[silky52]

I do not misunderstand Hamas, any more than I misunderstand Netanyahu. Their records of opinions on what should happen to the other is there for anyone to read.

Hamas isn't a government in anything. They took over the Democratic process and have through authoritism since 2006 kept power. Palestinians have not had a Democratic chance to voice their opinion since 2006.

No shit, it was the fact that the powers of the day made promises to both sides, but only kept it for one side. You can attribute a lot of that to WW2 and the sympathy felt world wide(rightly) to the Jewish peoples.

Maybe I shouldn't engage with you on this, you stated earlier you knew the history, by bringing in the PLO established in 1964, and Hamas founded in 1987 you show a major lack of education about a situation that has been on going since 1880.

Yes it is. You're a Canadian, how many terrorist activities have the First Nations used since 1867? They have rightful claims, broken treaties, a long list of grievances against a government that had symptomatically tried to assimilate them.

At the heart of terrorism is hate and dissatisfaction.

Yes that is a source of dissatisfaction, look to Trump and his supporters for a real world example in a Democratic country.
I never claimed terrorism was only from a single or a few reasons, there are many. It's reason for existence in the middle east didn't show up over night. It has been generations in the making.

If you feel my approach isn't viable, what is yours? More of the same? You throw out "two states",but that will only work if both populations agree to abide by it. Right now both sides hate each other. How do you break that cycle?

Please don't block all Israelis or indeed all Israeli Arabs into the same class. I can assure you that there are Israelis and Israeli Arabs who do not hate one another. They are not in the minority either! Of course, there are those that do, the extremists among people always do. Hamas-ISIS and Fatah for a start and there are many, many factions on the Arab sides who hate each other as well!! Likewise there are extremists on the Israeli side. Hate is a terrible thing, and 80% of Israelis want to live in peace, and do not hate others. They have indeed done so for many years side-by-side with Israeli Arabs.

 

[silky52]

Yes, most goods from China traverse that area to the rest of the world. Without that ability, the ships must travel all the way around Africa, which will increase the price of goods incredibly.

Exactly.

 

[silky52]

Efficiency.
https://i.imgur.com/Yzpp6MO.png

You are delusional! The extreme heat comes from the rockets and arms in the tunnels. The pictures of dead children are mostly fakes, although there are of course those who have given their lives in order to shield Hamas-ISIS cowards!

 

[silky52]

This is actual news of the war: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s111aiveft
Now why do you think that Israel is doing that? Does Israel really need that piece of wasteland? No! Does it need the Gaza Strip with all that it would have to be responsible for? No! The only reason that Israel is there is to fight for Israeli lives, and by the way that includes the Christians, Arabs and Jews that live in Israel.

 

[ll74]

You are delusional! The extreme heat comes from the rockets and arms in the tunnels. The pictures of dead children are mostly fakes, although there are of course those who have given their lives in order to shield Hamas-ISIS cowards!

The post explains that thermobaric bombs are hotter than other bombs exponentially. Are you disputing that? If so, please provide your sources and reasoning.

 

[ll74]

This is actual news of the war: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s111aiveft
Now why do you think that Israel is doing that? Does Israel really need that piece of wasteland? No! Does it need the Gaza Strip with all that it would have to be responsible for? No! The only reason that Israel is there is to fight for Israeli lives, and by the way that includes the Christians, Arabs and Jews that live in Israel.

Who runs that news site, specifically?

 

[RandyRebecca]

Yes, most goods from China traverse that area to the rest of the world.

The wonders of NAFTA and the Bill Clinton presidency, sending jobs to China so that workers' wages go down and then international trade routes become even more important, all so the billionaires get more profit. Ross Perot, a billionaire himself, was warning of the dangers of it in the 1990s.

This is actual news of the war: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s111aiveft
Now why do you think that Israel is doing that? Does Israel really need that piece of wasteland? No! Does it need the Gaza Strip with all that it would have to be responsible for? No! The only reason that Israel is there is to fight for Israeli lives, and by the way that includes the Christians, Arabs and Jews that live in Israel.

I see. It fights for Israeli lives by ethnically cleansing Gaza of Palestinians. Sound logic.

 

[ll74]

The wonders of NAFTA and the Bill Clinton presidency, sending jobs to China so that workers' wages go down and then international trade routes become even more important, all so the billionaires get more profit. Ross Perot, a billionaire himself, was warning of the dangers of it in the 1990s.

Things that we use come from China. Things from China go through the Red Sea.

If you don't like it, feel free to boycott those goods and encourage others to do the same.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Things that we use come from China. Things from China go through the Red Sea.

Did you get the significance of the post I quoted? NAFTA shipped more American manufacturing jobs to China, increasing the importance of international trade routes, all so billionaires could drive down workers' wages.

If you don't like it, feel free to boycott those goods and encourage others to do the same.

Remember that workers make and distribute all those goods, all grossly underpaid while they make society function.

 

[ll74]

Did you get the significance of the post I quoted? NAFTA shipped more American manufacturing jobs to China, increasing the importance of international trade routes, all so billionaires could drive down workers' wages.

Yes, I get your deflection.

Remember that workers make and distribute all those goods, all grossly underpaid while they make society function.

As I said, you can boycott goods to support those workers. Good luck.

 

[RandyRebecca]

As I said, you can boycott goods to support those workers. Good luck.

Nah. The bosses would respond by saying "lack of demand" and put those workers out of jobs. That's how capitalism works.

 

[ll74]

Nah. The bosses would respond by saying "lack of demand" and put those workers out of jobs. That's how capitalism works.

Well then shit all you can do is buy those goods and use them to complain about the means which allow you to have them.

¯⁠\⁠(⁠°⁠_⁠o⁠)⁠/⁠¯

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Did you get the significance of the post I quoted? NAFTA shipped more American manufacturing jobs to China,

NAFTA, or it's predecessor US Canada free trade agreement didn't ship any jobs. It allowed for overseas manufacturing. So while your post is technically correct about the outcome. It isn't factually true.

increasing the importance of international trade routes, all so billionaires could drive down workers' wages.

Ok if you want to pay for the extra freight charge, you pay. I don't want your stupidity to affect the price I pay.

Remember that workers make and distribute all those goods,

Yes they make and ship, and that's all. Everything else including their job came from the person taking the risk.

all grossly underpaid while they make society function.

Then go bitch at China ( for example) to pay their people more.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Yes they make and ship, and that's all.

That's all? That's everything. See what happens to society without make and ship. It grinds society to a halt.

NAFTA, or it's predecessor US Canada free trade agreement didn't ship any jobs. It allowed for overseas manufacturing. So while your post is technically correct about the outcome. It isn't factually true.

You seriously think that there were no loss of US manufacturing jobs from NAFTA, and the effect on wages?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

That's all? That's everything. See what happens to society without make and ship. It grinds society to a halt.

I had a company, with employees. They received a pay cheque every second week. I treated them well, paid them better and they worked hard for me, and overall made me a ton of money.

But every second Tuesday, they expected that cheque, whether the hard work they put in made me one fucking dime. I put up the money, I bought the equipment, I held the loans and the bonds. They put in the work, and got paid.

Don't fucking tell me workers drive the economy. Otherwise why the fuck did they come work for me, instead of doing what I did!

 

[silky52]

Who runs that news site, specifically?

Ynet is run by Yedioth Ahronoth one of the prominent Israeli newspapers.

 

[silky52]

The wonders of NAFTA and the Bill Clinton presidency, sending jobs to China so that workers' wages go down and then international trade routes become even more important, all so the billionaires get more profit. Ross Perot, a billionaire himself, was warning of the dangers of it in the 1990s.


I see. It fights for Israeli lives by ethnically cleansing Gaza of Palestinians. Sound logic.

You obviously did not read what I wrote. I'd like to know whether you personally will fight for your family, should intruders come into your house and try to destroy everyone in your house? Or would you lie there, let them rape you and your 12 year old daughter, and then burn your house down? What would you do?