closed Thread

[ll74]

Seriously, is it any surprise these people often support Hamas.

I mean, for a start, what’s your realistic options if you want to avoid problems as a 20 year old Gazan lad ?

On top of this is the obvious sense that they got a raw deal when they were disposessed and get a raw deal from Israel now. A large number of them are plain brutalised by the whole thing, got Stockholm syndrome for the Hamas gangsters that run the show and see them as at least fighting back against a far superior force.

If these folk were given some genuine hope for a new kind of future we might get somewhere, but that looks a long way off. Now the Israelis are starting to put it out there that a two state solution is impossible I’m not sure where we go really. How on earth can you fix this without the Palestinians having a state of their own ? In that case they may as well fight.

I enjoy how it's either one side or the other that people blame for some sort of "impossible peace". It's actually a reinforcing principle....if you tell people that it's impossible, they'll believe you. If you blame someone for it being impossible, they'll believe you too.

 

[zipman]

I enjoy how it's either one side or the other that people blame for some sort of "impossible peace". It's actually a reinforcing principle....if you tell people that it's impossible, they'll believe you. If you blame someone for it being impossible, they'll believe you too.

When one side is sworn to destroy the other side there can be no peace.

 

[ll74]

When one side is sworn to destroy the other side there can be no peace.

Yes, you demonstrate what I said. Thank you.

 

[zipman]

Yes, you demonstrate what I said. Thank you.

I demonstrate reality.

 

[AlexBailey]

When two different factions sincerely believe beyond reason that they have the only exclusive legitimate god-supported claim to a contested piece of land and they believe they will be rewarded in the afterlife…

There is no hope for peace in this world.

 

[ll74]

I demonstrate reality.

As I said....those who don't have fortitude and conviction admit defeat. Leadership that wants peace will achieve it.

 

[zipman]

As I said....those who don't have fortitude and conviction admit defeat. Leadership that wants peace will achieve it.

Lol, yes I know you said it. I quoted you saying it. I just disagree with your opinion.

 

[ll74]

Lol, yes I know you said it. I quoted you saying it. I just disagree with your opinion.

The reality is that current leadership is not seeking peace. Neither side of this conflict. I agree with that.

 

[Chernosoth]

I heard of Chapo Trap House, but never quite got into their podcasts. But here's one for lit. The IDF has a sperm retrieval unit for dead soldiers.

 

[zipman]

The reality is that current leadership is not seeking peace. Neither side of this conflict. I agree with that.

What part of "I disagree with your opinion" do you not understand?

 

[Chobham]

Iran overplays their hand once again. Their encouragement of the Houthi's in the effort to disrupt Red Sea shipping has provoked the formation of an international force to forestall their efforts. This force, of necessity, will have to execute ground strikes against the Houthi rebels as well as blockades against Iranian arms shipments to same.

The bigger picture here is the Saudi involvement. The Saudi's have been fighting the Houthi's for several years now and have looked for international support in doing so and here it comes, handed to them on a silver platter. Further I expect that the Saudi's will give Israel overflight permissions to punish the Houthi's, most likely covert at first.

It must be remembered that the political impetus for the Oct. 7th attacks by Hamas were instigated by the Iranians to disrupt the diplomatic 'normalization' talks going on between the Israeli's and the Saudi's. What the Iranian's are achieving is quite the opposite.

At what point is the White House going to wake up and realize that rapprochement with the Iranian's is virtually impossible and begin to enforce the sanctions already in place?

 

[_mattycatfish]

Iran overplays their hand once again. Their encouragement of the Houthi's in the effort to disrupt Red Sea shipping has provoked the formation of an international force to forestall their efforts. This force, of necessity, will have to execute ground strikes against the Houthi rebels as well as blockades against Iranian arms shipments to same.

The bigger picture here is the Saudi involvement. The Saudi's have been fighting the Houthi's for several years now and have looked for international support in doing so and here it comes, handed to them on a silver platter. Further I expect that the Saudi's will give Israel overflight permissions to punish the Houthi's, most likely covert at first.

It must be remembered that the political impetus for the Oct. 7th attacks by Hamas were instigated by the Iranians to disrupt the diplomatic 'normalization' talks going on between the Israeli's and the Saudi's. What the Iranian's are achieving is quite the opposite.

At what point is the White House going to wake up and realize that rapprochement with the Iranian's is virtually impossible and begin to enforce the sanctions already in place?

Almost none of this is right. Hush now.

 

[Chobham]

Coalition

 

[butters]

considering the source and conditions of admittance, i cannot automatically assume this to be true but expect it probably is since it's something that's been discussed multiple times

Ahmed al-Kahlout, the manager of the Kamel Adnan Hospital in northern Gaza, admitted during an interrogation with Israeli security forces that Hamas used the medical facilities to advance its military operations.

“I know 16 employees in the hospital — doctors, nurses, paramedics and clerks — who also have different positions in the Qassam Brigades,” Kahlout told Israel’s Shin Bet in a video clip released on Tuesday afternoon, referring to the military of Hamas. “They hide in hospitals because, for them, a hospital is a safe place.”

Kahlout, whose hospital is located in the Jabaliya neighborhood of northern Gaza, explained to Israeli security officials, “They [Hamas] won’t be targeted when they are inside a hospital.”

he goes on to say they have phone systems, offices, 'interrogations, internal security, and special forces' and it's where senior officials work/reside in what they feel to be a place of safety.

the whole article worth reading, from this man's disgust at hamas moving to safety while leaving them destroyed to the tunnels exposed under al-shifa with footage of hostages

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...&cvid=42064ac81ffa48129c3e864283883351&ei=117

 

[RandyRebecca]

Iran overplays their hand once again. Their encouragement of the Houthi's in the effort to disrupt Red Sea shipping has provoked the formation of an international force to forestall their efforts. This force, of necessity, will have to execute ground strikes against the Houthi rebels as well as blockades against Iranian arms shipments to same.

The bigger picture here is the Saudi involvement. The Saudi's have been fighting the Houthi's for several years now and have looked for international support in doing so and here it comes, handed to them on a silver platter. Further I expect that the Saudi's will give Israel overflight permissions to punish the Houthi's, most likely covert at first.

It must be remembered that the political impetus for the Oct. 7th attacks by Hamas were instigated by the Iranians to disrupt the diplomatic 'normalization' talks going on between the Israeli's and the Saudi's. What the Iranian's are achieving is quite the opposite.

At what point is the White House going to wake up and realize that rapprochement with the Iranian's is virtually impossible and begin to enforce the sanctions already in place?

The US imperialist approach for over 40 years now has been to drive a wedge between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which is why there was the pre-October 7 attempt at normalizing relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, which was a response to China's successful attempt at getting the Saudis and Iranians to restore diplomatic relations. The Iranians obviously had vested interests to stop the Saudi-Israeli normalization, which has, in turn, harmed the US imperialist strategy in the region, as October 7 and subsequent Israel actions have turned the heat up on any Arab leaders who favor rapprochement with Israel. Iran's approach has been spot on, and achieved its aim of driving a wedge between Arab countries and Israel.

Besides, George W. Bush's strategy of overthrowing Saddam Hussein in Iraq in 2003 (and worse, disbanding Iraq's army) massively boosted Iran's power across the entire Middle East region. Saddam's Iraq had been a counterweight to any Iranian influence, which is why Saddam had been a US ally in the 1980s, even as the Reagan administration in secret also had the Iran-Contra scandal going on (i.e. selling weapons in secret to Iran and using the financial proceeds to fund the counter-revolutionary Contras against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and El Salvador).

 

[Chobham]

The US imperialist approach for over 40 years now has been to drive a wedge between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which is why there was the pre-October 7 attempt at normalizing relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, which was a response to China's successful attempt at getting the Saudis and Iranians to restore diplomatic relations. The Iranians obviously had vested interests to stop the Saudi-Israeli normalization, which has, in turn, harmed the US imperialist strategy in the region, as October 7 and subsequent Israel actions have turned the heat up on any Arab leaders who favor rapprochement with Israel. Iran's approach has been spot on, and achieved its aim of driving a wedge between Arab countries and Israel.

Besides, George W. Bush's strategy of overthrowing Saddam Hussein in Iraq in 2003 (and worse, disbanding Iraq's army) massively boosted Iran's power across the entire Middle East region. Saddam's Iraq had been a counterweight to any Iranian influence, which is why Saddam had been a US ally in the 1980s, even as the Reagan administration in secret also had the Iran-Contra scandal going on (i.e. selling weapons in secret to Iran and using the financial proceeds to fund the counter-revolutionary Contras against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and El Salvador).

As usual you're full of shit. The Arabs and the Persians have been at each others throats for 1400 years now.

 

[zipman]

Ahmed al-Kahlout, the director of the Kamal Adnan Hospital in northern Gaza, admitted during an interrogation with Israeli security forces that Hamas used the medical facilities to advance its military operations. (ISA Spokesperson)

https://news.yahoo.com/senior-hamas-member-admits-medical-213618989.html

 

[RandyRebecca]

As usual you're full of shit. The Arabs and the Persians have been at each others throats for 1400 years now.

Iran was a US ally when the Shah was leader (before 1979), with the US and British governments/secret services using a coup in 1953 to overthrow the democratically elected Iranian government. I said "over 40 years" because I was referring to the period since the 1979 revolution after the Shah's overthrow.

What I said in my post is the truth.

 

[Buffalogurl]

As usual you're full of shit. The Arabs and the Persians have been at each others throats for 1400 years now.

My question is .... at what point do the houthi's turn their weapons on the Saudi oil facilities and producing oil fields? What then becomes of the world oil market?

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=58c651e218914d7389bf656535d8299b&ei=74

Via Qatari mediators, Israel offering a week-long (+) pause in fighting for the release of 36 more hostages of the remaining 130 or so still held. The proposal is for the release of women, men over 60 and the sick/wounded in return for the pause plus potential release of more Palestinian prisoners: the ones being considered have been convicted of more serious crimes than before but are now elderly or considered less of a threat to Israel.

 

[ll74]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=58c651e218914d7389bf656535d8299b&ei=74

Via Qatari mediators, Israel offering a week-long (+) pause in fighting for the release of 36 more hostages of the remaining 130 or so still held. The proposal is for the release of women, men over 60 and the sick/wounded in return for the pause plus potential release of more Palestinian prisoners: the ones being considered have been convicted of more serious crimes than before but are now elderly or considered less of a threat to Israel.

Interesting turn. Wonder who helped make this one happen.

 

[butters]

Interesting turn. Wonder who helped make this one happen.

from the article:

CIA director Bill Burns met Monday with Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani and David Barnea, the head of Israel's Mossad spy agency, in Warsaw to discuss a potential deal to secure the release of more Israeli hostages.

so definitely some American influence, but there's worldwide pressure growing for a ceasefire as the Palestinian casualties grow exponentially; the horrors of Oct.7th created great sympathy for Israel, but the loss of Palestinian civilian lives has since outstripped those lost then many many times over and public opinion means pressure, whether home-grown or in the form of sanctions/withdrawal of funding support.

 

[ll74]

from the article:

so definitely some American influence, but there's worldwide pressure growing for a ceasefire as the Palestinian casualties grow exponentially; the horrors of Oct.7th created great sympathy for Israel, but the loss of Palestinian civilian lives has since outstripped those lost then many many times over and public opinion means pressure, whether home-grown or in the form of sanctions/withdrawal of funding support.

Ok, I failed the reading test. Note to self - read before posting....lol....

Thanks for the information

 

[Rightguide]

As I said....those who don't have fortitude and conviction admit defeat. Leadership that wants peace will achieve it.

Neither side wants peace at present. Hamas wants enough time to rearm so they can kill more Jews and Joe Biden and his followers are trying to help them do that by pretending that peace is possible with radical Islam.

 

[ll74]

Neither side wants peace at present.

Correct. Nor did they prior to October 7. Current Leadership is content with the fighting and wars

Hamas wants enough time to rearm so they can kill more Jews and Joe Biden and his followers are trying to help them do that by pretending that peace is possible with radical Islam.

And there it is......the blame for one side.

Shocker