Wat's Guns-N-Stuff Thread

[TrailerHitch]

Here's an oddity for you. The Owen Machine Carbine is an Australian weapon designed by Everly Own and was the only Australian designed and manufactured submachine gun. It was used by the Australian Army from 1942 to 1971. It was chambered in 9x19mm and had a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute. The top mounted magazine was designed to aid in reliability as any mud or sand that entered simply fell out the bottom of ther gun or was pushed out by the magazine spring. This weapon was so highly regarded that General MacArthur considered arming American troops with the Own Machine Carbine.

View attachment 2291174

 

[TrailerHitch]

Google sez:


In April 2020 the United States Department of Defense decided to replace the Mk13 . 300 Winchester Magnum sniper rifle with a 20-inch (508 mm) barrel, semi-automatic AR-10 platform chambered in 6.5 mm Creedmoor and ammunition for engagements from 0 to 1,200 yards (0 to 1,097 m).


This seems notable.

Seems strange since the Army is converting to a 6.8 battle rifle and a light machine gun.

Although, since a sniper is specialized and has for many years had specialized ammunition it really is no different.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I'v had them for years each grand kid gets a savage axis in 6.5 the Christmas after they do the hunters safety course. That way I can buy ammo in bulk and not worry about different calibers, its enough of a pia with my own different calibers to keep track of

Copy that. It has long been my mission to keep both pistol and rifle ammunition calibers to a minimum.

I have been more successful with rifles in that regard, not so much with pistols.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Seems strange since the Army is converting to a 6.8 battle rifle and a light machine gun.

Although, since a sniper is specialized and has for many years had specialized ammunition it really is no different.

I know. I still getcher point.


My point is this: I want something that is used by People Other Than Me, so if and when the Rainy Decade comes, I will have arms that fit ammo that is otherwise unconventionally available.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I know. I still getcher point.


My point is this: I want something that is used by People Other Than Me, so if and when the Rainy Decade comes, I will have arms that fit ammo that is otherwise unconventionally available.

I gotcha.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

I gotcha.

Thought you might . . . .

 

[HisArpy]

If you are building new or buying new why not go to the 6.8 that the military is going to? I would assume there will be a metric shit ton of civilian rifles chambered in that and the call for ammunition for them.

In a word, recoil. I have a sub 1 MOA 30.06 I can no longer shoot unless I want to spend the next 2 weeks screaming in pain in the hospital. The 6.8 or even the smaller 6.5 and 6mm creedmore still pack more punch than my spine can handle.

.223 is plentiful but not as accurate as the 22-250 at the longer distances. OTOH, the 22-250 shoots hot and will wear out the barrel fairly quickly.

The only other drawback is that I'm not really all that excited about lugging around a 15lb rifle and the attendant accessories just to go shooting for the day.

 

[HisArpy]

Google sez:


In April 2020 the United States Department of Defense decided to replace the Mk13 . 300 Winchester Magnum sniper rifle with a 20-inch (508 mm) barrel, semi-automatic AR-10 platform chambered in 6.5 mm Creedmoor and ammunition for engagements from 0 to 1,200 yards (0 to 1,097 m).


This seems notable.

The 6.5 CM is a great cartridge. I just can't handle the recoil.

 

[TrailerHitch]

In a word, recoil. I have a sub 1 MOA 30.06 I can no longer shoot unless I want to spend the next 2 weeks screaming in pain in the hospital. The 6.8 or even the smaller 6.5 and 6mm creedmore still pack more punch than my spine can handle.

.223 is plentiful but not as accurate as the 22-250 at the longer distances. OTOH, the 22-250 shoots hot and will wear out the barrel fairly quickly.

The only other drawback is that I'm not really all that excited about lugging around a 15lb rifle and the attendant accessories just to go shooting for the day.

5.56mm is okay, I prefer the 7.62x39 out of my CZ527 bolt gun. I'm an old guy too and not much of a fan of recoil either anymore. The CZ is a sweet shooting rifle and if things go well I will be assassinating the hogs tearing up my yard with it!

 

[Wat_Tyler]

The 6.5 CM is a great cartridge. I just can't handle the recoil.

I hear you. Junior and I used to target shoot a lot, I in .308/7.62 and he in .223/5.56. I do know that they make a lot of good match grade ammo in several weights in the little one, and the recoil seems manageable. I also remember that they made a 77 grain match bullet with a long seating (it had to be hand loaded one at a time as it was too long to cycle from the mag - or wouldn't fit) which was to be used at 600 yards. That's a slow fire course on the highpower match anyway, so hand loading wasn't an issue.


Good luck finding something.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

5.56mm is okay, I prefer the 7.62x39 out of my CZ527 bolt gun. I'm an old guy too and not much of a fan of recoil either anymore. The CZ is a sweet shooting rifle and if things go well I will be assassinating the hogs tearing up my yard with it!

Oddly, I seem to be less recoil sensitive than ever. Go figure.

 

[CuttingEdge]

Considering (but just considering it) putting together a new long distance precision rifle.

.22-250 or .223? 22-250 is hard to get (if not impossible) and is a lot more expensive. OTOH it carries its energy out an additional 100 yds and has a slightly flatter trajectory. It's doubtful I'll be shooting more than 500 yds so either works.

Have you looked at the Beragra's?

I got a B-14, 6.5 Creedmore bolt action and they are known for accuracy, and still under $900. You have to trick it out, but on my farm the longest shot I can take is 3/4 of a mile. A muzzle brake or suppressor would take the sting out of the recoil.

 

[Chobham]

Have you looked at the Beragra's?

I got a B-14, 6.5 Creedmore bolt action and they are known for accuracy, and still under $900. You have to trick it out, but on my farm the longest shot I can take is 3/4 of a mile. A muzzle brake or suppressor would take the sting out of the recoil.

Exactly. I'm recoil immune myself but the muzzle jump irritates me, interferes with a quick follow-up shot. I've put muzzle breaks on my 300 and 338 and the difference IS dramatic, damn near a 60% reduction in free recoil.

The 300/338 (not including the Lapua) are in the 30 ft/lb class of free recoil w/o a muzzle break. The 25-06/6.5CM are in the 12 ft/lb class and the 22-250/223/5.56 are in the 5-7 ft/lb class. Depending on the design of the break you can expect anywhere from 40-60% recoil reduction. Muzzle breaks come with a down side though, serious ear protection is required.

Suppressors don't reduce free recoil as much as they reduce felt recoil. The impulse is drawn out over a longer period of time. That is not to say they don't reduce recoil at all, they do, but it is the felt recoil that is reduced the most.

Both devices reduce muzzle jump so follow-ups are faster.

 

[CuttingEdge]

Exactly. I'm recoil immune myself but the muzzle jump irritates me, interferes with a quick follow-up shot. I've put muzzle breaks on my 300 and 338 and the difference IS dramatic, damn near a 60% reduction in free recoil.

The 300/338 (not including the Lapua) are in the 30 ft/lb class of free recoil w/o a muzzle break. The 25-06/6.5CM are in the 12 ft/lb class and the 22-250/223/5.56 are in the 5-7 ft/lb class. Depending on the design of the break you can expect anywhere from 40-60% recoil reduction. Muzzle breaks come with a down side though, serious ear protection is required.

Suppressors don't reduce free recoil as much as they reduce felt recoil. The impulse is drawn out over a longer period of time. That is not to say they don't reduce recoil at all, they do, but it is the felt recoil that is reduced the most.

Both devices reduce muzzle jump so follow-ups are faster.

Hey thanks for the numbers. I was not aware they were that significant.

I have yet to build my Bergara fully out yet. I bought it, intended too, and then never really got back to it. A suppressor was one inclusion I never got too. (I was a machinist in a past life so I could machine my own).

When I chose which caliber for my Bergara, the gunowner told me straight outright to go with the 6.5 Creedmoor as he had a .300 Winchester and said it was tough on his shoulder. I took his advice.

I am not sure if I can get a binary trigger for the B-14, but it might be worth including if they did. They say they tighten up groups a lot. I put one on one of my AR-15's, but it was to take out running coyotes and I wanted that second shot as a quick follow-up. It is a different application I realize, but a fun gun to shoot once you get used to that double-fire. It sounds like I am talking stupid, but it takes a second for your brain to register that once you pull that trigger, two rounds will actually be fired. Its just something you have to experience to understand what I mean.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

A shooting coat like the ones used by highpower shooters would also help with felt recoil. It didn't make any sense to me why they'd use a sweatshirt under it, especially in the summer, but I tried it anyway and it does make a difference.


I looked at 6.5 uppers yesterday, and a really nice one is on Black Friday. Hell Wat may be into January at this rate.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

At this stage of the game I don’t want anything unless it’s .22 LR, 9mm, .45 ACP, 12 Ga, 5.56, or 7.62 NATO. Those are all well proven to do all the jobs I might need to do.

It doesn’t seem like the right time for things that are experimental or unproven.

The US Military has enough money and blood to waste some trying new things that will do the same job as what they already have - but I don’t.

Right. Any cartridge that the military adopts seems to become ubiquitous, and I like that because it will be very available. This may work in Wat's favor down the road somewhere.


Clyde Barrow was a big fan of BARs and .30-'06 which he found in abundance at National Guard depots.

 

[Chobham]

A shooting coat like the ones used by highpower shooters would also help with felt recoil. It didn't make any sense to me why they'd use a sweatshirt under it, especially in the summer, but I tried it anyway and it does make a difference.


I looked at 6.5 uppers yesterday, and a really nice one is on Black Friday. Hell Wat may be into January at this rate.

Be very, very, careful there. ALL AR-10 platforms are not built the same. Because it was never really adopted by the military there is no standardization like there is with the AR-15. For example, DPMS has two designs, Aerotech has their own as does Armalite. PSA has three different designs. In some cases there is no compatibility in the same manufacturer. I don't think PSA Gen 3 uppers are compatible with PSA Gen 1 lowers. Ask a LOT of questions before you whip out the credit card.

 

[Chobham]

A shooting coat like the ones used by highpower shooters would also help with felt recoil. It didn't make any sense to me why they'd use a sweatshirt under it, especially in the summer, but I tried it anyway and it does make a difference.


I looked at 6.5 uppers yesterday, and a really nice one is on Black Friday. Hell Wat may be into January at this rate.

Creedmor Sports has the best shooting coats and other accessories on the market. They aren't cheap, just the best that I've found. (These are the people that teamed up with Hornady to create the 6.5 CM to begin with.)

Creedmor Sports.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Be very, very, careful there. ALL AR-10 platforms are not built the same. Because it was never really adopted by the military there is no standardization like there is with the AR-15. For example, DPMS has two designs, Aerotech has their own as does Armalite. PSA has three different designs. In some cases there is no compatibility in the same manufacturer. I don't think PSA Gen 3 uppers are compatible with PSA Gen 1 lowers. Ask a LOT of questions before you whip out the credit card.

I noticed that tidbit. The chat window is open, and I'm waiting for business hours to commence.

 

[Chobham]

Hey thanks for the numbers. I was not aware they were that significant.

I have yet to build my Bergara fully out yet. I bought it, intended too, and then never really got back to it. A suppressor was one inclusion I never got too. (I was a machinist in a past life so I could machine my own).

When I chose which caliber for my Bergara, the gunowner told me straight outright to go with the 6.5 Creedmoor as he had a .300 Winchester and said it was tough on his shoulder. I took his advice.

I am not sure if I can get a binary trigger for the B-14, but it might be worth including if they did. They say they tighten up groups a lot. I put one on one of my AR-15's, but it was to take out running coyotes and I wanted that second shot as a quick follow-up. It is a different application I realize, but a fun gun to shoot once you get used to that double-fire. It sounds like I am talking stupid, but it takes a second for your brain to register that once you pull that trigger, two rounds will actually be fired. Its just something you have to experience to understand what I mean.

A binary isn't going to help much with a bolt gun. Check for aftermarket triggers.

 

[Lazaran]

^
Ammosexuals "flirting".

 

[TrailerHitch]

^
Ammosexuals "flirting".

It's funny how people talking to each other on here without being an asshole, like you, bothers you so much

 

[Chobham]

It's funny how people talking to each other on here without being an asshole, like you, bothers you so much

It craves the attention.

 

[CuriousRick]

It's funny how people talking to each other on here without being an asshole, like you, bothers you so much

You have to realize that most liberals are miserable. They follow along with the current outrage, they don’t think for themselves. They want everyone else to be miserable too. Thank god for the ignore button.

 

[HisArpy]

Have you looked at the Beragra's?

I got a B-14, 6.5 Creedmore bolt action and they are known for accuracy, and still under $900. You have to trick it out, but on my farm the longest shot I can take is 3/4 of a mile. A muzzle brake or suppressor would take the sting out of the recoil.

I did and I'd decided that I don't want another production gun. The B14 is nice but it's not what I want.

Currently looking at a Rem 700 series action from Defiance Machine. Paired with a Shilen barrel and a good chassis/trigger group it should shoot better than I can hold given equivalent grade optics.

If I don't go with the Defiance action, then I might consider something from Solus.

I'm still just considering this. I'm in no rush and there are other things higher up in importance on my to do list.