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kinked_a_bit said:
What seems NOT to be in question is the Israel is willing to lie to its greatest (only?) ally for sympathy and to rationalize its own war crimes.

Israel is no better than Hamas and no more worthy of our support.

Hamas revealed on October 7 that it “was ruthless and indiscriminate” and Israel has been revealing the same thing about itself every day since.
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Question - did Hamas know that the result of their initial actions would be the death of thousands of their own citizens?

Question - does Hamas understand that the result of their continued storage of weapons amongst cities is more deaths to its own citizens?

The exercise is whether you can address the above questions without blaming Israel.

I already know that you can't answer these without mentioning or blaming Israel.

It's the same exercise for others, who can't separate Hamas from innocent Palestinians....

And the result is truly that people don't want peace and would prefer to blame others for their position.
 
kinked_a_bit said:
What seems NOT to be in question is the Israel is willing to lie to its greatest (only?) ally for sympathy and to rationalize its own war crimes.

Israel is no better than Hamas and no more worthy of our support.

Hamas revealed on October 7 that it “was ruthless and indiscriminate” and Israel has been revealing the same thing about itself every day since.
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Spoken like a true Neo-Marxist.
 
kinked_a_bit said:
I blame Israel for its own actions. After Oct 7, there were a lot of options. Israel chose to do what it did and continues to choose it.
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Does Israel have a right to bring Hamas to justice for their actions or not?
 
ll74 said:
Question - did Hamas know that the result of their initial actions would be the death of thousands of their own citizens?

Question - does Hamas understand that the result of their continued storage of weapons amongst cities is more deaths to its own citizens?

The exercise is whether you can address the above questions without blaming Israel.

I already know that you can't answer these without mentioning or blaming Israel.

It's the same exercise for others, who can't separate Hamas from innocent Palestinians....

And the result is truly that people don't want peace and would prefer to blame others for their position.
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Additionally, your inability to criticize Hamas or answer questions about Hamas show that you have no serious position on the conflict
 
There is a reason people are not differentiating between Hamas and "The Palestinian people": "The Palestinian people" (for various reasons) will NOT condemn Hamas, and continue to act like it was Israel who committed the atrocities of October 7th.

While it can’t be argued that there is shared blame for the whole history of the Israel-Arab conflict, October 7th was pure terror perpetrated solely by Hamas; which should have been roundly condemned by all IMMEDIATELY.

Rashida Tlaib, I’m looking at you.
 
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Lazaran said:
There is a reason people are not differentiating between Hamas and The Palestinian people": "The Palestinian people" (for various reasons) will NOT condemn Hamas, and continue to act like it was Israel who committed the atrocities of October 7th.
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Generalizing doesn't make it true.
 
ll74 said:
Are you that fucking stupid?. Yes, of course you are.. Hamas won't let them rebel because Egypt has a blockade and Hamas spends all the money on bombs.

How the fuck is any normal person supposed to stage an uprising against someone when they are starved of they go against the boss?

I swear you fuckers think rebellion is easy in foreign countries. North Korea would've rebelled decades ago if that were the case.
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People do it here all the time. BLM burns down cities when they don't get their way. Maybe you could take a side trip and show them how it's done.
 
Rightguide said:
People do it here all the time. BLM burns down cities when they don't get their way. Maybe you could take a side trip and show them how it's done.
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That's not a rebellion. That is a riot that you've conflated with BLM. And that comparison is a complete false equivalency.

I guess if you equate those things, it's no wonder that you oversimplify the entire conflict.
 
Rightguide said:
People do it here all the time. BLM burns down cities when they don't get their way. Maybe you could take a side trip and show them how it's done.
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No people do not do it here all the time. Even your fake example isn't overthrowing the government or even making a solid attempt to. Can you name a single city that was actually burnt down/
 
It will never be enough that's the issue. The more I research Gaza I think its hard to judge too harshly its size. A person in reasonably good shape could walk from the north end to the southern tip in a single day. At its widest any idiot could go from the east to the west. There isn't enough land to not have "human shields" and there similarly aside from maybe going in with knives no way to avoid killing civilians.
 
Proportional

I agree

Slaughter, rape, behead, kidnapp and bake men women and children at a MUSIC FESTIVAL and fire unguided rockets into population centers in Gaza

Proportional!
 
kinked_a_bit said:
Retaliation is fine when it is proportional, distinguishes between combatants and civilians, and focuses on military necessity.
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So they do or they don't?

kinked_a_bit said:
Israel has failed all three of those tests, so what they are currently engaged in is “war crimes.”
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Based on who's definition...oh ...right....yours.

Did Hamas fail those with their constant rocket attacks on Israel?

kinked_a_bit said:
Personally, I’m not a huge fan of the laws of war, but if those are the rules everyone is supposed to play by, there’s no reason to give Israel a pass.
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Except when you don't like them...then you're strict on it.

What does "giving a pass" mean, specifically?


kinked_a_bit said:
I asked someone here a day or two ago how many dead Palestinians does it take to get adequate revenge for 1400 dead Jews. Nobody wanted to answer.
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Justice is not the same thing as revenge.

If Hamas leadership surrendered, certainly the discussion would be different. Instead, they hide out in tunnels under civilians.

kinked_a_bit said:
Last I heard, several days ago, the Palis had 8000 to 9000 dead. It’s probably more now, so is it enough?
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Palestinian deaths isn't the objective. Bringing Hamas to justice is.

kinked_a_bit said:
If not, how many is enough? Are we supposed to keep cheering until they reach 90,000? 900,000? All of them?

Seriously, how many more will it be before it’s enough?
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You think this is a war of numbers. No wonder you're confused. War is never about numbers.
 
I did respond

The number of alleged deaths are Hamas provided, so I dont believe any are dead

You didnt answer cause you cant
 
kinked_a_bit said:
You really are a marvel when it comes to being willfully obtuse. It used to surprise me, but I’ve grown accustomed to it.
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Proportional

I agree

Slaughter, rape, behead, kidnapp and bake men women and children at a MUSIC FESTIVAL and fire unguided rockets into population centers in Gaza

Proportional!
 
kinked_a_bit said:
If there are no dead, Israel must be the most incompetent military on earth.

Interesting perspective.
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and if they bombed Gaza with more bombs then was dropped in 10 yrs plus on Afghanistan and only "killed" 9k "people" they are incompetent
 
kinked_a_bit said:
You really are a marvel when it comes to being willfully obtuse. It used to surprise me, but I’ve grown accustomed to it.
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What specifically does Israel gain by a full ceasefire currently? What position is different now than on October 7?

You still haven't answered my questions on Hamas. Because you don't care to hold Hamas accountable...you only want to hold Israel accountable.

Here...maybe if I post them again for you. Answer them without any discussion of Israel.
ll74 said:
Question - did Hamas know that the result of their initial actions would be the death of thousands of their own citizens?

Question - does Hamas understand that the result of their continued storage of weapons amongst cities is more deaths to its own citizens?
Click to expand...
 
No ceasefire. Wipe their asses out and be done with them.

In other news the Saudi's are speaking out. Calling Hezbollah 'liars' and 'pawns of Iran.'
 
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