Is there a term or phrase to distinguish different kinds of erotic humiliation?

[AG31]

Different people's minds work in different ways. Different proclivities work with some folks' emotions in different ways. I don't know if I getting this right, but I think @AG31 wants to set up a means of turning a domineering woman submissive to a specific man without affecting her reactions to others.

I don't think that's what I'm trying to do, but it sounds really interesting. Except that I don't understand it at all. Could you re-phrase?

 

[MillieDynamite]

The movie Bad Lieutenant 2 deals with something like this. And there's another one where a detective see's a femdom while he works on cases.

Blurb: A man in a position of authority discovers that he has a liking, no, a need, to surrender to pain and sexual humiliation when he is a prisoner of war. In the second story, back home and employed in law enforcement, he seeks out those very needs.
I'm not sure how to fix this one.

I think you need to explore a little of the BDSM world, the site I gave you, and other similar sites, and figure out what will work and what won't. Often, men in authority need to release control and submit to be sexually fulfilled. They often can't discuss these things with their SO. Therefore, they seak out professional help that is different from a psychologist.

 

[AG31]

The movie Bad Lieutenant 2 deals with something like this. And there's another one where a detective see's a femdom while he works on cases.

I think you need to explore a little of the BDSM world, the site I gave you, and other similar sites, and figure out what will work and what won't. Often, men in authority need to release control and submit to be sexually fulfilled. They often can't discuss these things with their SO. Therefore, they seak out professional help that is different from a psychologist.

I've published 10 stories (one not here on Lit) over the last three years. They're all records of fantasies and almost all have this trope at their core. So I'm not interested in learning about any sort of life style. But I do appreciate your interest. And I'm definitely going to seek out Bad Lieutenant.

Edit: I hope you see this. Is Bad Lieutenant 2 the same as Bad Lieutenant Port of Call New Orleans?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Sure, a man is interested in a high-powered female Lawyer. She's a no-nonsense woman, doesn't suffer fools, and has no actual interest in exploring her softer or submissive side. This man would gaslight her by providing run-ins where she is exposed in some way, with people seeing her in compromising situations. He sends her notes, telling her he knows what she needs. It would need to be plotted out where things happen (have been made to happen) and where embarrassing things happen to her in public. A cold drink spilled on her at a party, exposing her hardened nipples, poking out for the other guest to see. Some run where she is made to look the fool and so forth and so on. She always gets messages telling her these things are what you need.

This has already been super helpful (get rid of the word humiliation), perhaps some of you all would be willing to work with me? @theWollstonecraftWoman, @MillieDynamite, @Erozetta

I'm toying with the idea of replacing "humiliation" with "sexual surrender." But I'm already using "surrender" in my description of my erotic sensibility and in some of my blurbs. Suggestions for revision?

Sensibility: A strong man surrenders to sexual pain and/or humiliation with dignity.
Not sure how to fix this one.

Blurb: A young straight executive signs up for a night of sexual surrender to pain and/or sexual humiliation at the hands of to the men and women of The Association. He experiences what was promised and more.

Blurb: A man in a position of authority discovers that he has a liking, no, a need, to surrender to pain and sexual humiliation when he is a prisoner of war. In the second story, back home and employed in law enforcement, he seeks out those very needs.
I'm not sure how to fix this one.

Blurb: A young heterosexual man spends an evening of sexual humiliation surrender.

Blurb: Three stories about men who willingly submit themselves to sexual pain and humiliation, with dignity.
I'm not sure how to fix this one.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yes, I think that's right. Nick Chage stared in it.

I've published 10 stories (one not here on Lit) over the last three years. They're all records of fantasies and almost all have this trope at their core. So I'm not interested in learning about any sort of life style. But I do appreciate your interest. And I'm definitely going to seek out Bad Lieutenant.

Edit: I hope you see this. Is Bad Lieutenant 2 the same as Bad Lieutenant Port of Call New Orleans?

 

[AG31]

Sure, a man is interested in a high-powered female Lawyer. She's a no-nonsense woman, doesn't suffer fools, and has no actual interest in exploring her softer or submissive side. This man would gaslight her by providing run-ins where she is exposed in some way, with people seeing her in compromising situations. He sends her notes, telling her he knows what she needs. It would need to be plotted out where things happen (have been made to happen) and where embarrassing things happen to her in public. A cold drink spilled on her at a party, exposing her hardened nipples, poking out for the other guest to see. Some run where she is made to look the fool and so forth and so on. She always gets messages telling her these things are what you need.

Thanks for all your effort, but I'm not looking for story ideas. I'm looking for ways to modify existing blurbs to eliminate the word "humiliation."

 

[MillieDynamite]

Oh, don't know what would work then.

 

[XerXesXu]

Maybe 'starfishing'. Common enough when girls want to do something they shouldn't, they lay there like a starfish and say, 'You can do anything you want with me'. But they know what you want, and it's what they want also. You'll need two parties who know one others' mind, in your case, starfishing in a gender fluid pond.

 

[Altissimus]

Sensibility: A strong man surrenders to sexual pain and/or humiliation with dignity.
Not sure how to fix this one.

Doesn't work for me. I think humiliation and dignity are mutually exclusive. Doesn't humiliation essentially subsume a loss of dignity?

Difficult re-writing blurb without context, but...

If you want to keep 'dignity':

A strong man surrenders to sexual pain with forbearance and dignity.
A strong man surrenders to sexual pain and [fights/struggles] to keep his dignity.

If you want to keep the concept of 'humiliation':

A strong man surrenders to sexual pain and degradation at the cost of his dignity.
A strong man explores surrender, submission and sexual pain while his shame wars with his dignity.

Blurb: Three stories about men who willingly submit themselves to sexual pain and humiliation, with dignity.
I'm not sure how to fix this one.

Same as above.

 

[AG31]

Doesn't work for me. I think humiliation and dignity are mutually exclusive. Doesn't humiliation essentially subsume a loss of dignity?

My question was, how can I replace "humiliation" with "surrender" in this existing blurb. It's a question about sentence structure.
This whole post was based on my discovery that for a lot (most?) of people "humiliation and dignity are mutually exclusive". I was counting too much on "sexual," limiting the kinds of humiliation. See OP.

 

[RainyDayPen]

Hello AG, I write humiliation kink stuff so I am reading this with interest.

Am I to understand basically that your characters are put through situations that WOULD be humiliating (being publicly bound naked EG) but because they are confident they end up withstanding the torture?

 

[AG31]

Hello AG, I write humiliation kink stuff so I am reading this with interest.

Am I to understand basically that your characters are put through situations that WOULD be humiliating (being publicly bound naked EG) but because they are confident they end up withstanding the torture?

Oh, dear... They end up surrendering to situations, not withstanding them. And they do feel humiliated, I guess, as one would when put on public display or those other things I mentioned in the first category of my OP. I would dearly love to hear your feedback on what is going on in a a couple of my stories. I've been muddling over this in my had for going on three years.

Twelve Maxbridge Street is my best, but it's also the longest (7 pages). I was prompted to submit this post when an astute reader told me that he didn't realize that the MC was a strong man. Being strong is central to my trope. I began examining the impact that "humiliation" might be having in my blurbs.

I think of my MCs as discovering pleasure in surrender, I'm not sure if they actually feel humiliated. Probably to some extent. I'm thinking of the first encounter in Maxbridge here, and some parts of An Enigma.

Well, you can see that I'm still in a muddle. I'm not in a muddle about what they're feeling. My stories are all records of vivid fantasies that I don't really control. But I am in a muddle about how to describe what they're feeling.

If you do decide to investigate my stuff, you can skip over A Stairway to Heaven (pure vanilla), and the two Idyll stories (GM without an assumption of a particularly strong MC).

 

[AG31]

Hello AG, I write humiliation kink stuff so I am reading this with interest.

Hello, RainDayPen,

I checked out a couple of your stories, and, in hopes that it will further our conversation, I'm reporting that we're not doing exactly the same thing. I saw that immediately with Emerson, when he said something "politely." And I saw it in Luxury when she said "ma'am." I would like to say my characters don't feel subservient, but of course they do. But they wouldn't show it in the way they speak.... Oh, well. Perhaps you can provide insight?

tia
ag

 

[RainyDayPen]

Hello, RainDayPen,

I checked out a couple of your stories, and, in hopes that it will further our conversation, I'm reporting that we're not doing exactly the same thing. I saw that immediately with Emerson, when he said something "politely." And I saw it in Luxury when she said "ma'am." I would like to say my characters don't feel subservient, but of course they do. But they wouldn't show it in the way they speak.... Oh, well. Perhaps you can provide insight?

tia
ag

Oh yes for sure we're different in that respect! But I like thinking about and hearing about others views on the topics I am interested in. Like for spanking, some people prefer playful silly spankings and I prefer more serious regimented affairs. I still tend to perk my ears up at the mention of the word lol.

Thank you for answering above more detailed. I will check out your stuff and see if I can understand your characters/kinks a little better. I do know there is a group that doesn't like total degradation in BDSM, the "gentle femdom" crowd for example, which I do enjoy myself in many respects. The problem is they tend to be VERY gentle and even spankings with the hand are considered a little much by most in the community. But I can still relate to them a lot because I don't like dommes who scream at their subs or call them horrible names or try to push their low-self-esteem buttons or spit on them. My connection to this is probably that I have a kink for more serious, traditional types of punishments, even if they aren't realistic.

I'd rather have a person bound naked in the street as part of a very formal (and legal in the fictional world) discipline policy than for example stories I've read where a domme binds her sub in the street like with a sign that says 'whore' or something that's more overtly sexualized. There's something about that lawfulness that gets me going.

 

[AG31]

Oh yes for sure we're different in that respect! But I like thinking about and hearing about others views on the topics I am interested in. Like for spanking, some people prefer playful silly spankings and I prefer more serious regimented affairs. I still tend to perk my ears up at the mention of the word lol.

I'll keep that in mind in hopes that I stumble across a story I read, I believe here, about a self reported visit by a man to another man to be spanked. The writing style was very restrained. It was really evocative though. The narrator wasn't gay, I don't think. I haven't thought about it for a while. Now I want to read it again.

Thank you for answering above more detailed. I will check out your stuff and see if I can understand your characters/kinks a little better. I do know there is a group that doesn't like total degradation in BDSM, the "gentle femdom" crowd for example, which I do enjoy myself in many respects. The problem is they tend to be VERY gentle and even spankings with the hand are considered a little much by most in the community. But I can still relate to them a lot because I don't like dommes who scream at their subs or call them horrible names or try to push their low-self-esteem buttons or spit on them.

Here's another way we may differ. I only write about femdom in the most impersonal ways. In most of my stories there either are no women, or only 50% of the do-ers are women. Impersonality is a quality I find in all my fantasies.

My connection to this is probably that I have a kink for more serious, traditional types of punishments, even if they aren't realistic.

I'm not into "realism," unless the lack of it takes me out of the story. I've frequently been told that I'm not portraying BDSM correctly. Well, when I was introduced to the term 50 years ago it simply meant bondage, dominance, sadism and masochism. It didn't mean consent and safe words and aftercare. My fantasies are what they are. I now preface some of my stories by saying "this is not meant to be a true representation of a dungeon, about which I know almost nothing."

I'd rather have a person bound naked in the street as part of a very formal (and legal in the fictional world) discipline policy than for example stories I've read where a domme binds her sub in the street like with a sign that says 'whore' or something that's more overtly sexualized. There's something about that lawfulness that gets me going.

Me too! I fully endorse your use of the word "formal." Think about that too, when you dip into my stories. And this is a good example! Do you know The Story of O? It sort of opened up the world of erotica in the U.S. in the mid sixties. "Formal" is a good adjective to describe the tone. "Old fashioned" is a not so good adjective which a reviewer applied to Maxbridge once.

 

[AG31]

some people prefer playful silly spankings and I prefer more serious regimented affairs. I still tend to perk my ears up at the mention of the word lol.

Here's the story that your term "formal" reminded me of. And, of course, the spanking aspect. What do you think of it?
The Pleasure of Being Spanked

 

[Altissimus]

My question was, how can I replace "humiliation" with "surrender" in this existing blurb. It's a question about sentence structure.

Why don't you just do a find and replace on humiliation/surrender then? Why do you need a thread?

Because it's not as simple as that, is it?

This whole post was based on my discovery that for a lot (most?) of people "humiliation and dignity are mutually exclusive".

Grand. Glad I helped. (It was me that said that, not you.)

Is there a better term than "sexual humiliation" to say what I mean?

And that's what I gave you - alternative ways of expressing the concepts you're discussing. It's up to you if you use them or if you think they answer the question. If you don't think they answer the question, I'd be more than happy to engage in a further level of discussion, as this is an area I have quite a lot of experience within.

But when I take the time and trouble to actually answer your question - whether you like the answer or not - I expect a bit more than "See OP." If you see my answer, you'll see I did.

 

[nice90sguy]

Well you obviously don't need to use the noun "humiliation" at all in your stories, just when talking about the stuff you lke to write about. Therefore this is sort of quibbling.

I posted a thread about this some time ago , and got similar replies to you. As wer're describing feelings here, (i.e. that of humiliation), it's all very subjective, and will alway sremain so -- I find certain things humilating that are not on your list, and there are things on your list that I don't consider humiliating (to me).

 

[AG31]

Why don't you just do a find and replace on humiliation/surrender then? Why do you need a thread?

Because I didn't yet have the term "surrender." When I did come up with the term, mid-thread, I still had a couple of blurbs where the sentence structure didn't allow for a simple search and replace.

Grand. Glad I helped. (It was me that said that, not you.)

Yes, that's why I put it in quotes. Thanks again.

But when I take the time and trouble to actually answer your question - whether you like the answer or not - I expect a bit more than "See OP." If you see my answer, you'll see I did.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[AG31]

I'd rather have a person bound naked in the street as part of a very formal (and legal in the fictional world) discipline policy than for example stories I've read where a domme binds her sub in the street like with a sign that says 'whore' or something that's more overtly sexualized. There's something about that lawfulness that gets me going.

I was caught up by the term "formal," and went back and read all of the Emerson stories. Even though his passivity and "obedience" didn't appeal to me, I enjoyed all the stories for their formal style. Thanks for giving me that word and thanks for the stories. I put you on my "favorites" list. I didn't read the Luxury stories because I'm only interested in male MCs.

 

[RainyDayPen]

Here's the story that your term "formal" reminded me of. And, of course, the spanking aspect. What do you think of it?
The Pleasure of Being Spanked

This is interesting - there's basically no shame or humiliation here from the spankee - he takes down his clothes and just gets over the lap to take it lol. It's focused heavily on the feeling of the pain. The author even very self-awarely mentions that there's no ritual at the end, there's no corner time or anything.

Reminds me, another word for "formal" in my opinion is "ritualistic" which I tend to love with these types of stories. Something very hot about someone being ordered to assume the position and them knowing already exactly what position to assume...

So glad you enjoyed those stories for their seriousness even if my stuff is more shame-focused. I will check yours out soon, tomorrow I will have more free time to enjoy!

 

[AchtungNight]

Erotic humiliation is not my kink, so I don’t know much about it. It’s largely a result of past personal trauma. Let’s just call it all “wrong”.

 

[AG31]

Reminds me, another word for "formal" in my opinion is "ritualistic" which I tend to love with these types of stories. Something very hot about someone being ordered to assume the position and them knowing already exactly what position to assume...

You (and others here) might like The Ring stories by @konstant. I believe your term "formal" applies to them, and they're about a submissive man.