closed Thread

[Shaglus_Ziegler]

And you have proof of this? Care to share it or should we just put it in the braindead bullshit column where it belongs?

Comshaw

For those who don’t care to look it’s a waste of time. The illusions are thick and people are frightened to put the puzzle pieces together. Ignorance is bliss until it isn’t. Cheers! Enjoy your psychopaths. They’re just getting started. Cheers

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Actually, those are only for those who take themselves entirely too fucking seriously.

 

[Shaglus_Ziegler]

View attachment 2281307

 

[Shaglus_Ziegler]

Actually Mission Accomplished was a win. People don't understand that there were two separate but connected things going on in Iraq at the time. One was overthrowing Saddam and his army. We managed that VERY quickly. The second was trying to secure the nation from various insurgent groups and that took for fucking ever.

As for America not winning wars we still have a pretty damn good track record. The main losses were proxy wars and we didn't have anything resembling a clear definable goal.

 

[Rotadom]

Actually Mission Accomplished was a win.

Oh good. I guess we will never see or haven't seen any trouble from that area since then.

The second was trying to secure the nation from various insurgent groups and that took for fucking ever.

Which negates your first sentence.

we didn't have anything resembling a clear definable goal.

Which is why it is a loss.

 

[Sean Renaud]

View attachment 2281307

Bit late on that pounded flat part.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Oh good. I guess we will never see or haven't seen any trouble from that area since then.

Which negates your first sentence.

Which is why it is a loss.

Two separate things. Is Saddam back in power? Nope. I'm starting believe he's actually dead that footage was so off that it could have been anything and we'd never know. Is the Baath party back in power? If the answers to these questions are no then we did in fact win the war. This is not a debatable point.

Now the second part was trying to put a proper government in place however that we did a less than fantastic job at. The bigger problem is that almost all of the Middle East for that matter Africa is stuff Europe and to some extent the US fucked up terribly drawing the lines on the map with no regard to which tribes were with what other tribes and who hated each other.

I was actually referring to Korea and Vietnam about having no real goal. The Iraq War had goal and again it was accomplished without much fuss. If you want to argue we should never have been there I'd be 100% behind you. That does not equal the Iraqi army having defeated us.

 

[SmokingFap]

Actually Mission Accomplished was a win. People don't understand that there were two separate but connected things going on in Iraq at the time. One was overthrowing Saddam and his army. We managed that VERY quickly. The second was trying to secure the nation from various insurgent groups and that took for fucking ever.

So, obliterating a country that didn't, nor was capable of attacking us, killing thousands of innocent civilians, installing a corrupt puppet to lead it, then occupying it for years upon costly years -- all based on a LIE -- is a win? Huh. I'd hate to see what a loss looks like.

 

[SmokingFap]

Actually, those are only for those who take themselves entirely too fucking seriously.

Reminds me of the Repubs in Congress. Just a bunch of fake boobs.

 

[Rotadom]

That does not equal the Iraqi army having defeated us.

That's not the same as a win.

 

[RoryN]

Joe is a racist, sexist child molester

And you have proof of this?

[ Nope. ]

 

[SubzeroGirl]

Does that "tell it to the families" actually fly with adults where you live? I could easily say that about a lot of things. Tell "alcohol isn't illegal" to the families of DUI victims. While prohibition didn't work that's not point here. I could talk about the people dying to gun violence or easily preventable medical issues. Or the hundreds of thousands of dead Americans due to Covid largley because of the Maga crow. I could say that about women who die (disproportionately black) in child birth. The thing is at the end of the days the family has a personal problem.

The thing here is unless you're a "Kill em all let God sort em out" type there is no way to kill terrorists anywhere, but especially in Gaza without taking out more than double that of people who had the "wrong place wrong time" issue.

I don’t spit in the face of people who have lost someone to terrorism. We are not talking about death in general, we are talking about terrorists. I know you live in “da hood” of California where death is an every day occurrence, but some of us still care about terrorists murdering Americans. I didn’t say you need to care, but the gov’t should. They are elected to keep us safe and so far I haven’t heard a word about those dead Americans.

 

[Comshaw]

Actually Mission Accomplished was a win. People don't understand that there were two separate but connected things going on in Iraq at the time. One was overthrowing Saddam and his army. We managed that VERY quickly. The second was trying to secure the nation from various insurgent groups and that took for fucking ever.

As for America not winning wars we still have a pretty damn good track record. The main losses were proxy wars and we didn't have anything resembling a clear definable goal.

It didn't take forever, it just never happened. If it had the Iraqi government wouldn't have fallen in record time to those insurgent groups we were trying to eliminate. Going into Iraq I was all for it. But being a Vietnam Vet and knowing the lesson from that debacle, I said at the time we needed to get in, kick their ass and get out. Instead, the dumb fucks in charge decided to occupy the country and try to do the same with Afghanistan. The Russians couldn't do it, so what made the dumb fucker in charge think we could? We couldn't and didn't. It was a no-win situation the minute we decided to stay longer than it took to kill the ones we needed to.

Like Veitnam the failure in Iraq and Afganistan wasn't on the troops. They did their job and did it well. It was the leadership that kept us there that failed.

Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

For those who don’t care to look it’s a waste of time. The illusions are thick and people are frightened to put the puzzle pieces together. Ignorance is bliss until it isn’t. Cheers! Enjoy your psychopaths. They’re just getting started. Cheers

In other words you don't have a lick of proof of anything you said. Which puts everything you said in the realm of your opinion. I'll put that right up there with other opinions: lizard people running the government, and Joe as the head of a pedophile ring who eats babies in the basement of a pizza joint.

Cheers.


Comshaw

 

[Abreb9]

Crazy how Russia invaded a country and trying to take it over is deemed as wrong and a disgrace but Israel doing it seems right and are actually being helped.

The world is a very dangerous place

 

[Sean Renaud]

It didn't take forever, it just never happened. If it had the Iraqi government wouldn't have fallen in record time to those insurgent groups we were trying to eliminate. Going into Iraq I was all for it. But being a Vietnam Vet and knowing the lesson from that debacle, I said at the time we needed to get in, kick their ass and get out. Instead, the dumb fucks in charge decided to occupy the country and try to do the same with Afghanistan. The Russians couldn't do it, so what made the dumb fucker in charge think we could? We couldn't and didn't. It was a no-win situation the minute we decided to stay longer than it took to kill the ones we needed to.

Like Veitnam the failure in Iraq and Afganistan wasn't on the troops. They did their job and did it well. It was the leadership that kept us there that failed.

Comshaw

If for whatever reason we didn't think it was possible because Russia which isn't even a fair comparison then we should have just take the hit and move the fuck on. I'm not an expert on the Russians weren't they trying to conquer, not install some new government? Like if our dumbasses as you put it didn't disband the military at least someone would be in charge.

I haven't blamed any of our losses directly on the troops though I do believe there are things we could have handled better.

That's not the same as a win.

Again primary goal accomplished. That is a win. We beat Sadam. The secondary goal we failed. There is really no debating either point.

 

[jaF0]

It didn't take forever, it just never happened. If it had the Iraqi government wouldn't have fallen in record time to those insurgent groups we were trying to eliminate. Going into Iraq I was all for it. But being a Vietnam Vet and knowing the lesson from that debacle, I said at the time we needed to get in, kick their ass and get out. Instead, the dumb fucks in charge decided to occupy the country and try to do the same with Afghanistan. The Russians couldn't do it, so what made the dumb fucker in charge think we could? We couldn't and didn't. It was a no-win situation the minute we decided to stay longer than it took to kill the ones we needed to.

Korea, Nam, Iraq and Afghan were all the same. The US had no chance of 'winning' and installing a Western style government because the people didn't want it. We had no business in any of those places. We have no place in the Mid East or Africa at all. They don't think like we do. They don't want our style of government.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Korea, Nam, Iraq and Afghan were all the same. The US had no chance of 'winning' and installing a Western style government because the people didn't want it. We had no business in any of those places. We have no place in the Mid East or Africa at all. They don't think like we do. They don't want our style of government.

See a Western STyle government should never have been the goal. Just something that could keep the country together. Even if we had no place good luck in 2001/2002 convincing anybody that we had no business going after Al Qaeda. That shit was not happening son. IT was not gonna happen.

 

[Chobham]

A Short Treatise on War.

War is ugly, war is brutal, war is the antithesis of humanity. There is no such thing as a ‘civilized’ war. We, in the West, have somehow convinced ourselves that we can wage a ‘civilized’ war without ‘civilian’ casualties. Our governments have, in no small part, convinced the populations with this notion with their touting their precision weapons. All that means is that we no longer have to resort to carpet bombing but that is of small comfort to anyone in the vicinity of the targeted area. As a matter of fact this notion on our part actually has exasperated the situation in that the enemy combatants merely relocate to areas where more civilian casualties are guaranteed. This, of course, only undermines the narrative that our respective governments are trying to foster.

History has shown that negotiated settlements and/or armistices are virtually worthless documents. The only thing they achieve is to bring a pause to the war. As soon as the weaker side rebuilds and rearms the war will start all over again. The current situation between the West and Islam is a perfect example proving that fact. The first Punic War is another example, as is the armistice of WWI. Anyone that wants to dig into the history of warfare will find example after example.

The only wars that have ended with anything that might resemble finality are those wars where the winning side dominated, occupied, and re-educated the losers. Once again history provides examples of this fact. The end of the Punic wars with the elimination of Hannibal as a threat. Germany and Japan with the end of WWII, and closer to home the end of the Civil War. Once again history provides more examples.

If a nation decides to go to war it must do so with a singular purpose and that purpose is to reduce the enemy to the point that they have neither the will nor the capability to ever fight you again. If you cannot dedicate yourself to that purpose then you will, at best, find yourself fighting the same war over and over again or, at worst, find yourself dominated, occupied, and re-educated by your enemy.

 

[jaF0]

See a Western STyle government should never have been the goal. Just something that could keep the country together.

Hussein and Ghadafy were keeping their countries together. Taking them down led to chaos and ISIS.

Even if we had no place good luck in 2001/2002 convincing anybody that we had no business going after Al Qaeda. That shit was not happening son. IT was not gonna happen.

You spelled Saudi Arabia wrong.

 

[icanhelp1]

Crazy how Russia invaded a country and trying to take it over is deemed as wrong and a disgrace but Israel doing it seems right and are actually being helped.

The world is a very dangerous place

Israel didn’t start this fight.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I agree that Saddam and Ghadaffi were holding the countries together. So was the Taliban. I'm simply saying if we believed that replacing and of those men/groups with something else, anything else that could hold it together we should have just accepted that 9/11 was a thing, 3k is tragic but done the clean up and anything special forces couldn't handle covertly doesn't get done.

Good luck convince most Americans and any New Yorker that we could let that go unpunished though.

Taking out the Sauds is never going to be an option until we manage to get at least one more solid ally that isn't the tiny country of Kuwait nor Israel. Sucks but there it is.

 

[Rotadom]

Israel didn’t start this fight.

The original one or the one that started a few weeks ago?

 

[ll74]

Crazy how Russia invaded a country and trying to take it over is deemed as wrong and a disgrace but Israel doing it seems right and are actually being helped.

The world is a very dangerous place

It's not nearly the same. There is no evidence they are trying to take it over at the moment.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Yes, you have said this multiple times already.

We get it. You support Hamas.

You're so ridiculous. Keep saying a lie over and over still makes it a lie. I'm a socialist and atheist, so the antithesis of Hamas.