closed Thread

[Comshaw]

It's a totally fair comparison. Both the Russians and our military were trying to subdue the insurgent groups. It doesn't matter the reason why. Neither they nor we did.

What was the primary goal? It was to eliminate the insurgent groups and to install a democratic government. A failure on both counts by our leadership. We went in with arrogance and left holding our fists in the air declaring victory as the object of our time there took the countries back as we left. Win my ass.

It's a totally fair comparison. Both the Russians and our military were trying to subdue the insurgent groups. It doesn't matter the reason why. Neither they nor we did.

What was the primary goal? It was to eliminate the insurgent groups and to install a democratic government. A failure on both counts. Most of it by our leadership. We went in with arrogance and left holding our fists in the air declaring victory as the object of our time there took both countries back as we left. Win my ass.

Comshaw

 

[Sean Renaud]

It's a totally fair comparison. Both the Russians and our military were trying to subdue the insurgent groups. It doesn't matter the reason why. Neither they nor we did.

What was the primary goal? It was to eliminate the insurgent groups and to install a democratic government. A failure on both counts. Most of it by our leadership. We went in with arrogance and left holding our fists in the air declaring victory as the object of our time there took both countries back as we left. Win my ass.

Comshaw

How in the eleven frozen hells did you fuck up a quote?! Anyhow never in the history of the world has anybody really managed to drive insurgents if they aren't willing to go full genocide and even that isn't always a solid plan especially not in the modern world.

Like ACTUALLY said putting a democracy or anything resembling the west should never have been the goal. Just anybody who could hold it down. At least in Iraq we could have just not fucked uup their entire military. Just "Okay no more Saddam, behave yourselves. With any luck some president will lift the sanctions on the Afghans AND Cuba though Cuba is clearly a separate issue. Just something that needs to happen.

 

[ll74]

You're so ridiculous. Keep saying a lie over and over still makes it a lie. I'm a socialist and atheist, so the antithesis of Hamas.

I never said you support their ideology.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Crazy how Russia invaded a country and trying to take it over is deemed as wrong and a disgrace but Israel doing it seems right and are actually being helped.

The world is a very dangerous place

This just proves what really motivates the capitalist ruling classes of the US and its allies, i.e. it isn't "freedom", "democracy" or "liberty", but corporate profits, trade routes and spheres of influence in global politics. People's lives are just collateral damage to the ruling classes in the pursuit of corporate profit.

 

[dmallord]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714629327134834975

I watched this and wondered about it not being a more widespread view. And where is all that carnage with 500 bodies? They were all removed overnight, and the few individuals wandering around were looking for what exactly?

 

[dmallord]

A CNN video with geo-located confirmation of the hospital blast.

CNN verified video image of hospital blast
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live...utm_content=2023-10-18T16:14:57&utm_term=link

 

[Chobham]

I read through this thread and what I see is a majority mix of pseudo-intellectual academic horse shit with an ample sprinkling of out and out propaganda. It doesn't matter what you think, what I think, or the world thinks, Israel isn't going to stop.

Hamas attacked Israel with the sole purpose of murdering Jews. Not military, not politicians, just Jews without regard to age or sex. They grabbed hostages and those that survived scurried back to Gaza and their tunnels to hide under their civilian population. And, of course, that was part of the plan as well, to try to create as many casualties as a result of collateral damage as possible for propaganda purposes, but Israel isn't going to stop.

The IDF is going to root out Hamas tunnel by tunnel as long as there is some proof of life of the hostages. When that is gone then the gloves are going to really come off, Israel isn't going to stop.

That's why we, the US, is getting involved. The Israeli's have made it clear that they aren't going to stop so we join in, tacitly for now, in the expectation that we'll be able to exert some control over the situation. A 'show of force' isn't going to cut it because the Israeli's aren't going to stop.

Expect Hezbollah to open a second front at the Iranian's behest to take some pressure off Hamas and that's when we, the US, is going to have to fish or cut bait. That's when we're going to find out the true mettle of the Biden administration because the Israeli's are not going to stop.

This is not going to be over in days, or weeks. You can expect this to last for months. If push comes to shove the Israeli's are going to go after Iran and that's where the wild card comes into play, the Saudi's.

There is a fight taking place in Riyadh right now, a generational fight. The older generation wants to back the 'Palestinians' because they are Arabs. The new generation doesn't give a shit about the Palestinians, their concern is Iran and their own security. The timing of this attack has a great deal to do with driving a wedge between the Saudi's and the Israeli's, all orchestrated by Iran.

IF Israel decides to go after Iran they're going to go after the coastal oil facilities, those are accessible, obvious, and within Israel's capabilities. The only realistic counter that Iran can put up is to go after the Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi oil facilities and I'm sure most can see where that will lead. I suspect that the second carrier group, the Eisenhower, will end up transiting the Suez and position somewhere in the Arabian Sea to counter such a move by Iran.

Israel is not going to stop.

 

[Comshaw]

If for whatever reason we didn't think it was possible because Russia which isn't even a fair comparison then we should have just take the hit and move the fuck on. I'm not an expert on the Russians weren't they trying to conquer, not install some new government? Like if our dumbasses as you put it didn't disband the military at least someone would be in charge.

I haven't blamed any of our losses directly on the troops though I do believe there are things we could have handled better.

How in the eleven frozen hells did you fuck up a quote?! Anyhow never in the history of the world has anybody really managed to drive insurgents if they aren't willing to go full genocide and even that isn't always a solid plan especially not in the modern world.

Like ACTUALLY said putting a democracy or anything resembling the west should never have been the goal. Just anybody who could hold it down. At least in Iraq we could have just not fucked uup their entire military. Just "Okay no more Saddam, behave yourselves. With any luck some president will lift the sanctions on the Afghans AND Cuba though Cuba is clearly a separate issue. Just something that needs to happen.

BAWAHAHA! I did fuck that up didn't I? And I have no idea how. Aw well, I never claimed to be perfect.
I think I need to back out of here because I can't make head nor tails of what you are saying.

Comshaw

 

[zipman]

Jewish lives matter.

Palestinian lives matter.

Genocide as a response to terrorism is never an answer and will not bring peace nor will it bring justice to those killed by Hamas.

The Jewish diaspora worldwide has been protesting to that effect, along with other communities, quite loudly. I stand with those voices and prefer to amplify them.

Because the "turn Gaza into a parking lot" mindset is neither informed or objective. And I don't have to dance to that tune in order to say that Jewish lives matter, but those that do have already shown that Palestinian lives never did.

Here's another Jewish voice over the matter that I stand with. No obligation to read it if you don't want to.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714174768231198811

First off, I have never said turn Gaza into a parking lot or suggested that Palestinian lives don't matter.

However, Israel absolutely has a right to defend itself. Hamas has sworn to destroy israel so much so that they put it into their charter.

The attack on Israel was beyond barbaric. Innocent Israeli men women and children purposefully slaughtered. And over 200 kidnapped, many of them Hamas doesn't even know who has them or where they are.

I supported giving Gaza back to the Palestinians in 2006. I had high hopes for peace there. But Hamas (which had the support of half the Palestinian population) doesn't want peace and they don't give a shit about the Palestinian people.

So now Israel is going to go in and try and find the hostages and bring them home and I support that 100%. They are provable going to destroy the tunnels and I support that 100%. Are innocent Palestinians going to be killed, yes they will. This is sadly a simple case of cause and effect. They chose this.

Tell me one thing the Palestinians have ever done for peace? Or better yet, tell me what you think Isreal should do in response to the attack and how they will get the hostages back?

I'm dying to hear it.

 

[zipman]

Now that it seems as though the hospital was indeed caused by Palestinian rockets misfiring, as had happened numerous times before, are all the people calling for the death of Israel going to call for the death of Hamas? No, because there are two standards at play here.

 

[Chobham]

Now that it seems as though the hospital was indeed caused by Palestinian rockets misfiring, as had happened numerous times before, are all the people calling for the death of Israel going to call for the death of Hamas? No, because there are two standards at play here.

While it's been fairly well established that it was a Hamas rocket a question has to be asked. Given the history of Hamas and it's 'respect' for it's citizens was it a 'misfire' or a deliberate action for propaganda purposes?

 

[zipman]

While it's been fairly well established that it was a Hamas rocket a question has to be asked. Given the history of Hamas and it's 'respect' for it's citizens was it a 'misfire' or a deliberate action for propaganda purposes?

I certainly wouldn't put it past them.

 

[zipman]

This is an interesting article that quotes Egyptian president El-Sisi.

Key points:
1. Says Egyptians will protest in the millions if Palestinians are forced into Egypt because Palestinians would use his country to launch terror attacks against Israel. He doesn't differentiate bergen Palestinians and Hamas.

2. He proposes movin Palestinians to the negev while Israel deals with "the militants." Can you imagine the cross of ethnic cleansing?

https://news.yahoo.com/egyptian-president-rejects-effort-push-154653851.html

 

[Sean Renaud]

Honestly while I can differentiate mentally between Palestine and Hamas are they like Yakuza or Hell's angels where they have a specific tattoo? Cus if not I don't know how you keep Hamas from running out.

 

[dmallord]

Honestly while I can differentiate mentally between Palestine and Hamas are they like Yakuza or Hell's angels where they have a specific tattoo? Cus if not I don't know how you keep Hamas from running out.

No tramp stamps for Hamas. Shoot until out of bullets or cornered then duck and blend in with the human fodder cover they have readily available. 'He who runs off, lives to fight another day.'

 

[dmallord]

This is an interesting article that quotes Egyptian president El-Sisi.

Key points:
1. Says Egyptians will protest in the millions if Palestinians are forced into Egypt because Palestinians would use his country to launch terror attacks against Israel. He doesn't differentiate bergen Palestinians and Hamas.

2. He proposes Michigan palatial to the negev while Israel deals with "the militants." Can you imagine the cross of ethnic cleansing?

https://news.yahoo.com/egyptian-president-rejects-effort-push-154653851.html

Youngster, you 'fat fingered' that point number two. What were you trying to say? Michigan has some Arabs but I don't believe that was your point. Please, try again.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

We have a problem in Palestine with defective rockets. We need to stand with Congressperson Tlaib, help end the blockade of humanitarian aid and the egress of refugees (Hamas Leadership), send more aid to Gaza (Hamas), and release the Iranian money so that the pipeline can start supplying better, more stabile rockets to to the human shields of Israeli brutality and ruthless territorial expansion (Hamas and Hezbollah), for mostly peaceful, defensive use (in Israel). It’s for the children (of Palestine)! It’s for women, the sick, the needy, the hospitalized (of Palestine)!

#Allahu Akbar!
#Death to Israel!
#Drive the Jews into the sea!

 

[JoePepsiCo]

One again, their initial outrage, as it does on so many issues is now already morning to sympathy, empathy and compassion for the real victims and they want a cease fire, talks, negotiations…,

With terrorists because as we’ve seen it play out over and over and over, the oppressors and exporters of the real victims are the terrorists and should be called out for having the temerity to play victim.

They aren’t even being vociferous on those in their ranks openly praising the terrorists any more. Those children, I keep telling you, are running the Party as if it has a ring in its nose.

It’s Iraq.
It’s the border.
It’s Big Blue enclave crime.
It’s any issue where the domestic Nazis of their minds
Can be fought even if it means supporting actual foreign Nazis.
It’s for THE CHILDREN! THE INNOCENT! WOMEN AND GAYS! PERSECUTED MUSLIMS!
There are no innocent Zionist Nazi Pigs. Push them to the sea!
We Love Jews! We Hate Israel!


They’re cry endlessly and relentlessly about fake news, but they ran with the Israel Bombed Our Hospital Hamas Lie…

 

[ll74]

One again, their initial outrage, as it does on so many issues is now already morning to sympathy, empathy and compassion for the real victims and they want a cease fire, talks, negotiations…,

With terrorists because as we’ve seen it play out over and over and over, the oppressors and exporters of the real victims are the terrorists and should be called out for having the temerity to play victim.

They aren’t even being vociferous on those in their ranks openly praising the terrorists any more. Those children, I keep telling you, are running the Party as if it has a ring in its nose.

It’s Iraq.
It’s the border.
It’s Big Blue enclave crime.
It’s any issue where the domestic Nazis of their minds
Can be fought even if it means supporting actual foreign Nazis.
It’s for THE CHILDREN! THE INNOCENT! WOMEN AND GAYS! PERSECUTED MUSLIMS!
There are no innocent Zionist Nazi Pigs. Push them to the sea!
We Love Jews! We Hate Israel!


They’re cry endlessly and relentlessly about fake news, but they ran with the Israel Bombed Our Hospital Hamas Lie…

You're not profound.

 

[zipman]

You're not profound.

Or intelligent, or interesting, or funny.

 

[zipman]

It seems  egypt has agreed to allow aid to enter Gaza. I mention this because a few people blamed Israel for not letting it in.

 

[Dribble]

There is an excellent video on the front page of CNN right now showing a rocket being launched from Northern Gaza...of it veering in direction...and most importantly...of it exploding midair. Within seconds of this explosion...we see the explosion at the hospital.

Now...how can it explode in the air and still be capable of exploding on the ground? Magic? Oh...I know I know...Iran has capabilities that exceeds the Western World.

Everyday, the site becomes more and more compromised. If a UN team was allowed access...all answers would be provided

 

[Dribble]

It seems  egypt has agreed to allow aid to enter Gaza. I mention this because a few people blamed Israel for not letting it in.

Educate yourself. Israel controls access. The aid has been sitting there and Israel prevented access.

Ever been at any border? There are 2 components. Two gates. One controlled by Egypt. One controlled by Israel.

But be a denialist

 

[ll74]

There is an excellent video on the front page of CNN right now showing a rocket being launched from Northern Gaza...of it veering in direction...and most importantly...of it exploding midair. Within seconds of this explosion...we see the explosion at the hospital.

Now...how can it explode in the air and still be capable of exploding on the ground? Magic? Oh...I know I know...Iran has capabilities that exceeds the Western World.

Everyday, the site becomes more and more compromised. If a UN team was allowed access...all answers would be provided

Israel has confirmed no missiles in the air and provided evidence to the public. Hamas has not provided contrary evidence. Faulty rocket came apart midair and landed in pieces.

You should follow the evidence, not your bias.

 

[zipman]

Educate yourself. Israel controls access. The aid has been sitting there and Israel prevented access.

Ever been at any border? There are 2 components. Two gates. One controlled by Egypt. One controlled by Israel.

But be a denialist

Why don't you educate yourself? Israel doesn't control that crossing, at all. It is solely up to Egypt.

Ffs, it's not even hard to look that up.