The future is dense, walkable cities.

[AlexBailey]

The land it can take up.

Do renewables use as much land as the petroleum industry?

 

[ll74]

The land it can take up.

Something the US has in abundance

 

[JaxRhapsody]

That is why you use a "blanket" not water for a chemical fire on a vehicle.

Who does that‽

 

[ll74]

Who does that‽

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Something the US has in abundance

I don't really see it that way. We as people don't need to own every square mile of land. Let nature have some. Most of it, honestly. Just like this density talk. I might like living in the city, but something like Courescant is not a place I'd like to live, even with the repulsor crafts.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Car are fine for moving people around in rural areas. We just need to keep them out of cities where they cause nothing but trouble.

Fuck that. I want my car.

 

[ll74]

I don't really see it that way. We as people don't need to own every square mile of land. Let nature have some. Most of it, honestly. Just like this density talk. I might like living in the city, but something like Courescant is not a place I'd like to live, even with the repulsor crafts.

So you're not debating that there is land in abundance.

Got it.

 

[KeithD]

Some will. Some people drive because they have to. I know people who own cars and only use them for certain things and prefer bicycle.

If you're lucky, you reach an age with conditions that put a bicycle and even walking or getting to and managing at a bus stop--and especially the concept of returning with a week's groceries--out of the realm of possibility.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

So you're not debating that there is land in abundance.

Got it.

Exactly. I'm not arguing we don't have the land, I'm saying we don't need it all.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Do renewables use as much land as the petroleum industry?

Depends. I've seen large solar farms and I think wind farms are even bigger. Oil fields take up acres, so does strip mining, at least the miners replace what they take. Really, solar farms can be in the city itself.

 

[ll74]

Exactly. I'm not arguing we don't have the land, I'm saying we don't need it all.

We have the land for renewables.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone not have a car? (Relying primarily on public transit)

Just speaking for my urban world - Santa Clara Valley Transit Authority, California - public transit takes easily three or four times as long to get anywhere, unless everything is on schedule and you time it perfectly, then it only takes twice as long.

I have a car that I drive once a week to go to the grocery store. I would happily trade it for an electric cargo bike if there were more protected bike lanes in my neighborhood. Most of my errands I do by walking.

When I go downtown for work, I ride the train. Driving downtown in LA traffic would take hours. With the train it's about 30 minutes.

 

[AlexBailey]

Depends. I've seen large solar farms and I think wind farms are even bigger. Oil fields take up acres, so does strip mining, at least the miners replace what they take. Really, solar farms can be in the city itself.

Parking lots and shade structures are perfect for solar

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Parking lots and shade structures are perfect for solar

And buildings.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

372 miles doesn't work for me. It would mean stopping twice to charge on a trip back to Wisconsin. Now I stop once for gas. As as soon as an EV can match my Subaru mile for mile full tank to full charge I may think about an EV.

Fair point,but how often do you actually make the trip?

I'm actually more in favor of hydrogen EVs than battery EVs.

So am I.

So you support maintaining oil based fuel for specialty vehicles. Compromise?

Oil's not going anywhere for i'd say 100 years, maybe longer, until it runs out even. The point isn't to end the use of petroleum. It's to grab the low hanging fruit, which is really personal vehicles and where possible public transportation.

Good for you, and Yay! They don't work for me and many others.

Then I won't hear you bitching about how much it costs to fill up, right?

Synthetic diesel is a reality and so is ethanol based fuels have been used elsewhere successfully. Brazil is an example of where ethanol based fuel is used for automobiles and small trucks.

I make bio-diesel for my farm tractor and backhoe. Diesel engines were designed to run on peanut oil. Ethanol is a waste of time, and effort IMHO. Lower fuel mileage, harder on the fuel system and it needs subsidies still to keep the cost down.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Who does that‽

Fire departments that have the equipment.

There are many types, here is a link to one I did quick search on.

https://www.edarley.com/car-fire-blanket/

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Oh, and micro-grids won't make the grid go away. The micro-grid is all about giving more finite point control over the distribution of electricity, not about making the macro-grid go away. It gives the energy companies more control, not less control. Long live the micro-grid.

What? Maybe expand on that. Normally you make good sense, but not here.

 

[AlexBailey]

If gas costs $3 / gallon and you get 30 mpg, your fuel cost is $.10 / mile.

If your electricity costs $.15 / kWh and your EV gets the typical 3 miles / kWh, your fuel cost is $.05 / mile.

A residential solar system can provide a kWh of electricity for ~ $ .15.

So if your electricity is cheaper than $.15 kWh, even without buying solar you will probably save money on fuel costs with an EV.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

If gas costs $3 / gallon and you get 30 mpg, your fuel cost is $.10 / mile.

If your electricity costs $.15 / kWh and your EV gets the typical 3 miles / kWh, your fuel cost is $.05 / mile.

A residential solar system can provide a kWh of electricity for ~ $ .15.

So if your electricity is cheaper than $.15 kWh, even without buying solar you will probably save money on fuel costs with an EV.

They bitch about the price of gas, they bitch that EV's are too expensive. My theory is; they like to bitch!

 

[AlexBailey]

What? Maybe expand on that. Normally you make good sense, but not here.

A micro grid is a small part of the main grid (or a fully independent ‘island’ of a grid) which can be disconnected from external sources and still provide electricity within its area.

Creating mini-grid sections within the main utility grid provides better reliability because a fault in one mini-grid section will not cause a shutdown in other sections.

I was working on expanding a rural mini-grid today. There have been recent utility outages in nearby areas that did not affect the customers I was doing this project for.

 

[AlexBailey]

They bitch about the price of gas, they bitch that EV's are too expensive. My theory is; they like to bitch!

Some of the motor heads saw the light when they discovered the superior performance characteristics of EVs.

Off the line Teslas are among the fastest super cars for performance. Show me a gas powered SUV that can keep up with a Mustang MACH-E

Ask any city bus driver about the performance difference between electric and diesel busses.

 

[ll74]

If gas costs $3 / gallon and you get 30 mpg, your fuel cost is $.10 / mile.

If your electricity costs $.15 / kWh and your EV gets the typical 3 miles / kWh, your fuel cost is $.05 / mile.

A residential solar system can provide a kWh of electricity for ~ $ .15.

So if your electricity is cheaper than $.15 kWh, even without buying solar you will probably save money on fuel costs with an EV.

They don't do math. Too busy with cultural horseshit

 

[AlexBailey]

A design that should be in use but so far isn’t is quick replace batteries.

It’s a simple thing to design, and if it gets used battery recycling will be far easier and much more efficient, it would also make EVs able to kick internal combustion’s ass at Le Mans.

Just pull into an exchange center, swap batteries and be on your way.

 

[AlexBailey]

They don't do math. Too busy with cultural horseshit

They don’t believe in science or math, but most of them speak $.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

A micro grid is a small part of the main grid (or a fully independent ‘island’ of a grid) which can be disconnected from external sources and still provide electricity within its area.

Creating mini-grid sections within the main utility grid provides better reliability because a fault in one mini-grid section will not cause a shutdown in other sections.

I was working on expanding a rural mini-grid today. There have been recent utility outages in nearby areas that did not affect the customers I was doing this project for.

I know what it is, what I don't understand is what Paul was trying to say about it.( the portion I put in bold in his post is where my question lies)