Ask a MtF TG a question

[Zrosey]

I'm not the first person to notice a fascinating paradox there: being "male" is simultaneously immutable biological destiny, and so fragile that wearing the wrong colour or washing one's own ass-crack could threaten it.

I am mtf tg, still young in my transition as I started medical transition November of 22. All my life, or much of what I remember I have pushed the boundary of “being male”.
It wasn’t intentional most of the time, but it was myself just trying to live my life as I am. This said, I am here to tell you as strong and rugged as males are supposed to be they certainly seemed threatened by my femininity!
Something as harmless as wearing the wrong color....or not knowing all the intricacies of sports could very easily put you in danger here in the USA. I really do not understand why there isn’t room in our world for gender diverse people, and the reality is for all the progress of past decades, currently society is in danger of moving backward.

 

[Zrosey]

There is the theory of precarious manhood. That perceived threats to some men's masculinity triggers aggressive thoughts and/or behavior. These threats could be as simple as the use of gender-inclusive language, their friend offering them a hug, or the existence of someone who is assumed to be a gay man nearby. There are 5 studies right now that have confirmed higher levels of aggression in men than women in response to these perceived threats.

I think there is lots of truth here! And you covered stuff I was trying to say in my previous post.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yet it is a 'thing'. We can mock it but we still have to deal with it not just online but in the street. Learning to tiptoe around those male triggers is yet another female skill, but no more than a 30 minute seminar!

Tangential rant:

One of my standard parallels here is the concept of money. Money is a thing humans invented and then developed to quite dizzying levels of complication and abstraction.

I have some nice apples, and my neighbour wants apples to feed his pigs. I can use one of those pigs for a feast next week, but not right now, and I don't have a place to put it. So instead my neighbour gives me his best hammer for some apples, and we agree that I'll redeem it for a pig next week.

My neighbour decides it's inconvenient to keep on giving me his best hammer as security when I'm not actually using it. So instead we agree that he'll give me a nice sea shell as a marker of the debt, and I'll trade that back in for a pig.

I want one of the nice warm cloaks that my other neighbour makes. But she doesn't want my apples. What she does want is a pig. So I give her the shell, and she can then go redeem that for a pig.

Then the shell gets abstracted into gold, and the gold gets abstracted into paper money, and the paper gets abstracted into an entry in a bank book, and that entry gets abstracted into an electronic record, and we start creating things on top of that like interest, taxation, stocks, stock options, derivatives, cr*ptocurrency, yada yada yada. I play an online game, and the company that makes it sells me their own "currency" which can then be traded for another kind of "currency" usable in that specific game (the object here being to make it harder and harder for me to figure out what this is costing in actual dollars). A lot of the time when we talk about "money" we're talking about things that might be half a dozen levels of abstraction away from ham on the table and a roof over my head.

I can put on my Philosopher Hat and point out that well actually, all of this is a social construct, and as soon as we get past things like pigs and apples that are inherently valuable, it only exists as a kind of shared fiction that would stop existing if we stopped believing in it. All of that is true, and yet it's still damn important, and even people who'd quite like to replace that system with something different find it pretty hard to quit the game altogether. On the rare occasions where a large number of people do stop believing in it, the consequences are catastrophic. Even though there are just as many pigs and apples to go around as there were before, we've come to depend on systems that are based on this "money" concept, and as imperfect as those systems are, replacing them is hard and not something one can easily do on the fly.

Gender, likewise, is something that humans have invented (again, based on concrete things like beards and vulvas and child-bearing) and then built several thousand years of complications on top of that. As with money, even people who suffer badly in the current system are often forced to adapt to it; if your bladder is full and the only options are "Ladies" and "Gentlemen", you need to pick one.

We accept that money is almost fractally complex and nobody really understands the whole picture, and even though it's all a social construct (and highly flawed at that) we understand that it matters. That being the case, why should gender be any simpler? Why should somebody who can't explain the fundamentals of their own retirement savings plan expect a trans/non-binary person (or indeed a cis one) to have a complete explanation for why their gender is what it is?

 

[Paradox]

Tangential rant:


Gender, likewise, is something that humans have invented (again, based on concrete things like beards and vulvas and child-bearing) and then built several thousand years of complications on top of that. As with money, even people who suffer badly in the current system are often forced to adapt to it; if your bladder is full and the only options are "Ladies" and "Gentlemen", you need to pick one.

We accept that money is almost fractally complex and nobody really understands the whole picture, and even though it's all a social construct (and highly flawed at that) we understand that it matters. That being the case, why should gender be any simpler? Why should somebody who can't explain the fundamentals of their own retirement savings plan expect a trans/non-binary person (or indeed a cis one) to have a complete explanation for why their gender is what it is?

You, my friend, are brilliant! This little pearl of wisdom has helped me immensely. Thank you!

 

[stickygirl]

Tangential rant:

One of my standard parallels here is the concept of money. Money is a thing humans invented and then developed to quite dizzying levels of complication and abstraction.

I have some nice apples, and my neighbour wants apples to feed his pigs. I can use one of those pigs for a feast next week, but not right now, and I don't have a place to put it. So instead my neighbour gives me his best hammer for some apples, and we agree that I'll redeem it for a pig next week.

My neighbour decides it's inconvenient to keep on giving me his best hammer as security when I'm not actually using it. So instead we agree that he'll give me a nice sea shell as a marker of the debt, and I'll trade that back in for a pig.

I want one of the nice warm cloaks that my other neighbour makes. But she doesn't want my apples. What she does want is a pig. So I give her the shell, and she can then go redeem that for a pig.

Then the shell gets abstracted into gold, and the gold gets abstracted into paper money, and the paper gets abstracted into an entry in a bank book, and that entry gets abstracted into an electronic record, and we start creating things on top of that like interest, taxation, stocks, stock options, derivatives, cr*ptocurrency, yada yada yada. I play an online game, and the company that makes it sells me their own "currency" which can then be traded for another kind of "currency" usable in that specific game (the object here being to make it harder and harder for me to figure out what this is costing in actual dollars). A lot of the time when we talk about "money" we're talking about things that might be half a dozen levels of abstraction away from ham on the table and a roof over my head.

I can put on my Philosopher Hat and point out that well actually, all of this is a social construct, and as soon as we get past things like pigs and apples that are inherently valuable, it only exists as a kind of shared fiction that would stop existing if we stopped believing in it. All of that is true, and yet it's still damn important, and even people who'd quite like to replace that system with something different find it pretty hard to quit the game altogether. On the rare occasions where a large number of people do stop believing in it, the consequences are catastrophic. Even though there are just as many pigs and apples to go around as there were before, we've come to depend on systems that are based on this "money" concept, and as imperfect as those systems are, replacing them is hard and not something one can easily do on the fly.

Gender, likewise, is something that humans have invented (again, based on concrete things like beards and vulvas and child-bearing) and then built several thousand years of complications on top of that. As with money, even people who suffer badly in the current system are often forced to adapt to it; if your bladder is full and the only options are "Ladies" and "Gentlemen", you need to pick one.

We accept that money is almost fractally complex and nobody really understands the whole picture, and even though it's all a social construct (and highly flawed at that) we understand that it matters. That being the case, why should gender be any simpler? Why should somebody who can't explain the fundamentals of their own retirement savings plan expect a trans/non-binary person (or indeed a cis one) to have a complete explanation for why their gender is what it is?

That's a good rant
Grrr

I gravitate towards sports and activities that tend to be gender-neutral. I used to rock climb but then switched to sailing and both are activities where men can compete on level terms with women. They lend themselves to my autie side as well because they're not team games either.

wrt the kind of sports the Rosie referred to - the big ticket "mens" games, they have been championed by the unfair sex simply because they thrive on chest beating and tribal chants. One's knowledge is tested by 'real supporters' to see if you can remember the manager of the team in 1960 or that famous home run in 1985 that secured the championship.

Closer to home, in the UK the recent success of the women's football ( soccer ) teams have seen sell out ticket sales. Significantly, the ethos of the women's team is entirely different: it almost seems the majority of the WSL teams are lesbian, but when one male pro footballer came out recently, it was almost headline news. In an interview, my crush Leah Williamson offered her support to him and sympathised with the lack of honesty and support for gay players.

 

[coati]

We accept that money is almost fractally complex and nobody really understands the whole picture, and even though it's all a social construct (and highly flawed at that) we understand that it matters. That being the case, why should gender be any simpler? Why should somebody who can't explain the fundamentals of their own retirement savings plan expect a trans/non-binary person (or indeed a cis one) to have a complete explanation for why their gender is what it is?

It's no wonder that so many humans suffer from anxiety.

 

[coati]

It's no wonder that so many humans suffer from anxiety.

I learned a lot about one trans person's struggle with anxiety from this site. If you have time, check out the "Bio" section and the podcast she did with Queer Theology. She is not a religious fanatic.

Also, her latest album Light It Up is worth the listen. She is an amazing recording artist.

 

[NRBonz]

No wish to come across as morbid bt would like to see some pre-op post-op pictures, perhaps even a sequential series? Any such pictures recommended?

 

[stickygirl]

No wish to come across as morbid bt would like to see some pre-op post-op pictures, perhaps even a sequential series? Any such pictures recommended?

If you not squeamish, then look for transgender vaginoplasty on YouTube: plenty of graphic stuff out there. Knock yourself out.

 

[Zrosey]

Also, her latest album Light It Up is worth the listen. She is an amazing recording artist

Thanks for the recommendation, checked her stuff out an now have her on my musical playlist

 

[stickygirl]

I'm not sure what to make of this latest news reported by the BBC with regard to the main gender clinic in the UK, Tavistock. It links to a biased report, based on scant information by the broadcaster in a Newsnight program, that also cherry picked information and told incomplete stories. The gender service is currently paralysed in the UK, with no new cases being taken on.

Hopefully it can keep itself out of the media hysteria circus and so allow better decisions to be made, based on internationally agreed protocols as it did before the Cass report.

The cited trans man had apparently been through all the normal assessments but later chose not to medically transition. His individual experiences are not good, but hardly unusual for a NHS service that is plagued by underfunding in every area, not just gender services.

It's not insignificant that numerous transgender employees have resigned from the BBC in recent months, complaining about a work environment hostile to them.

 

[Zrosey]

I would be curious to know more of Em's story, the trans man. From the bit in this article it strikes me he had bad luck with clinicians. I have no personal experience with puberty blockers, but in my reading it seems they are not that uncommon and considered fairly safe.
Keep in mind this is just my assessment as a unschooled onlooker!

It's sad to hear the GIDS clinic or service is in such disarray currently. Hopefully for those needing it's care something will be set up.
Here in the states it has become a patchwork for trans people. Some states it is virtually criminal to provide gender care but currently even tho my state tends to be somewhat conservative I am thankfully able to get care.

 

[stickygirl]

So in the UK the cycling sports body have finally clarified their rules wrt trans athletes and competitions. As I've reported previously, the original fuck-up started when Emily Bridges was barred in 2022 from competing at high level, despite having followed all the then existing hormone guidance. She is understandably angry to find herself officially excluded and having to compete in a newly created Open category.

The bans for high level, international sports people affects only a very few trans folk, but has demonstrably riled up a larger number of AFAB athletes: cis gender women who feel their sport is being undermined. I sympathise with the objections of cis women - the sport must be led by the science and evidence. Will the science ever be perfect for every person in every sport? Unlikely. The sporting bodies point to the lack of conclusive proof as a way of dodging the issue but they could do a lot more to encourage trans acceptance outside the stadiums and medal cabinets...

The flip side to these rulings is how the message filters down to local clubs in any sport. Jackie Aspden, who is 78, has played an active role in the sport over many years, as an organiser and administrator. Here's what she is experiencing...
“I have just read the proposal and am perplexed. I understand the worries of women athletes and accept the present situation there until better research into the effects of hormone treatment is done.
“However, the inclusion of men into the ‘open’ category is patently designed to make sure that transgender women will compete at a major disadvantage, especially if like myself their testosterone levels are virtually zero.
“I ride and lead rides with Lancaster Women’s Cycling Group as well as being an administrator. I stopped riding British Cycling social rides after a very uncomfortable event on the outskirts of Liverpool. That was the only time I have experienced transphobia.
“I’m very disappointed [in the policy updates] and certainly will be very unlikely to rejoin British Cycling.”

Who is to blame? Should we even be looking to ascribe blame or fault when other sports happily accept different weight and age categories?

 

[comegently]

The sport thing is difficult.
There is probably no advantage once hormone levels are taken into account, but we cannot win.

Transphobes only have to get lucky once, when a trans athlete wins a major event (it hasn't happened) and we have to get "lucky" every time and lose.
Like self-declaration, this was a scientifically-correct but politically-naive objective.

Our primary objective should have been full equality by statute for all gender identity and expression variation, and protection as a group against incitement to gender identity hatred, as given on the basis of race or religion.
It's no good playing against a stronger team while sending the goalkeeper to the coffee shop.
Terfs are wrong, but they are better connected, better at arguing, and better financed.

 

[stickygirl]

The sport thing is difficult.
There is probably no advantage once hormone levels are taken into account, but we cannot win.

Transphobes only have to get lucky once, when a trans athlete wins a major event (it hasn't happened) and we have to get "lucky" every time and lose.
Like self-declaration, this was a scientifically-correct but politically-naive objective.

Our primary objective should have been full equality by statute for all gender identity and expression variation, and protection as a group against incitement to gender identity hatred, as given on the basis of race or religion.
It's no good playing against a stronger team while sending the goalkeeper to the coffee shop.
Terfs are wrong, but they are better connected, better at arguing, and better financed.

That could become a trans meme
'You can't win'

 

[stickygirl]

I hope you're healing well GC.

Random YouTubes - I love 'em. So Google thought I might like this video and as I started to watch it was a fun interview, then it suddenly struck me that the experience the young woman had, growing up in Japan was parallel to being transgender, especially at 10:15. Also maybe the tall thing...
Being a "Foreigner" English Girl Born in Japan | Japanese is My Native Language!

 

[eomerson]

Well, Stickygirl. you said ask anything so here goes. I took the bull by the horns and actually had a great conversation with a transwoman I know from my hobby organization. She had a lot of great things to say but I thought her opinion about some of "famous" transwomen was interesting. She has gone through a lot to be where she is today and she feels that there are a lot people claiming to be transgendered and using a serious personal issue as a way to fame and making light of this health issue. She pointed out a certain person embroiled in an issue over beer. I would like your opinion as you seem to have such solid thoughts.

Also, I said it before...if we would pay for counseling, meds and surgeries for transgendered people it would be so much healthier for them but also society. Maybe providing health coverahe for what is needed would save on folks that may fall into severe depression, addiction and even self harm. I hate to think that we dont spend a few bucks and help save people from struggling with what can be helped what I consider necessary care.

Well, damn, that was a rant. Sorry for the length. My best wishes everyone!

 

[Zrosey]

Trans men also ate comparatibely understudied in medicine so concerns are either ignored or assumed to be nonexistent. Even known facts have bèen misrepressnted by docs. Some even underprescrihe testosterone out of just stupidity or wilfull sabotage, retaininh a menstrual cycle or otherwise keeping T levels low against patient desires.

As Sticky said, I hope your healing is going well for you GC.
I know very little of our brothers in the trans community and pretty sure I read in one of your previous posts GC, that you work with a trans community in California.
So I am curious to know do you believe there is a disparity of care between trans men and trans women? If so, would you think it might have to do with visibility?

I live in a rural area in Alaska so there is very little real time I am able to
get with other trans folk. When I first approached a doctor at our local hospital about pursuing hormone replacement therapy, she basically looked at me as if I was an alien! So I went to the big city of Anchorage and found awesome care with Planned Parenthood.

Back to my question tho, another that’s hard to not notice here in the usa is with all the lies and scare tactics being used by the right wing fascist types much of it seems mostly directed to trans women. I know that group of voters would be just as adamantly against trans men, but i wonder if they are more under the table because they tend to pass more easily?

 

[stickygirl]

As Sticky said, I hope your healing is going well for you GC.
I know very little of our brothers in the trans community and pretty sure I read in one of your previous posts GC, that you work with a trans community in California.
So I am curious to know do you believe there is a disparity of care between trans men and trans women? If so, would you think it might have to do with visibility?

I live in a rural area in Alaska so there is very little real time I am able to
get with other trans folk. When I first approached a doctor at our local hospital about pursuing hormone replacement therapy, she basically looked at me as if I was an alien! So I went to the big city of Anchorage and found awesome care with Planned Parenthood.

Back to my question tho, another that’s hard to not notice here in the usa is with all the lies and scare tactics being used by the right wing fascist types much of it seems mostly directed to trans women. I know that group of voters would be just as adamantly against trans men, but i wonder if they are more under the table because they tend to pass more easily?

I look forward to hearing GCs reply.

There's a sick irony that the anti-trans block who crow they're 'protecting women from assault by trans women' are the same ones denying abortion rights to the same women. It's men who assault women in changing rooms and there are already laws covering sexual assault of any kind.
I suspect the way in which FtM and Mtfs are treated draw on the entrenched views that refuse to accept trans women as women. So they see trans women as a threat ( because they are still men ) but not trans men ( because they're still women, right? ). Through social media tiny minorities can make their shrill voices heard above general mood of acceptance - something that politicians and their advisers are adept at using for their own purposes.

Just this week in the UK there was a much publicised tv documentary called Gender Wars ( so their concept wasn't biased at all from their titling, right? ) Numerous LGBTQ people were invited to take part but were given an entirely different summary of the final content and purpose of the program. Pink News gives a good summary of the 'documentary' that opened with “battle lines have been drawn and any constructive dialogue seems to be impossible”. So that was helpful.

As it turned out, the program was a platform for another Terf Dr Kathleen Stock, who resigned from her university job having faced calls for her to be sacked given her corrosive stance on gender identity. She has been able to go into full martyr mode, lashing out at trans folk but then claiming she has nothing against them. Think sad music playing over Stock walking alone or staring glumly out of a train window... JKR of course thinks she's wonderful.

 

[stickygirl]

A quick rantette on autism was a lecture I saw online from the respected expert Baron-Cohen who postulated the extreme male brain theory
"Using these short measures, the team identified that in the typical population, women, on average, scored higher than men on empathy, and men, on average, scored higher than women on systemizing and autistic traits. These sex differences were reduced in autistic people. On all these measures, autistic people's scores, on average, were 'masculinized': that is, they had higher scores on systemizing and autistic traits and lower scores on empathy, compared to the typical population." 2018
Perhaps the scientific shorthand goes over my head, but the idea that 'men lack empathy' and women are 'crap at systemizing' fucking curdles my brain! Cohen is an arrogant shit and certainly displays all the empathy-failure of his theory.

Thanks for the link - I'm looking at the book title now and counting my pennies. I'll add it to my list for now.

 

[stickygirl]

LOL.

His whole theory relies on the idea that autistic people lack Theory of Mind. What are we, amoeba?

[source]

Same article discusses the difficulty that non-autistic people have with "reading the minds" of or using cognitive empathy with autistic people.

Also Baron-Cohen wrote a book called "The Science of Evil" with us in it. Not surprised he is a piece of shit.

Autistic people do not intrinsically "lack empathy." We have imbalances in our use of empathy. Some autistic people are extremely sensitive. Some are not or are totally unaware, but are still quite compassionate about very specific things or triggers. And sticky probably already knows all of this...

I'm like emotional blotting paper and pick up people's emotions as if they were mine. I wish I could shut it off sometimes, but other times it's a blessing.

 

[eomerson]

LOL.

His whole theory relies on the idea that autistic people lack Theory of Mind. What are we, amoeba?

[source]

Same article discusses the difficulty that non-autistic people have with "reading the minds" of or using cognitive empathy with autistic people.

Also Baron-Cohen wrote a book called "The Science of Evil" with us in it. Not surprised he is a piece of shit.

Autistic people do not intrinsically "lack empathy." We have imbalances in our use of empathy. Some autistic people are extremely sensitive. Some are not or are totally unaware, but are still quite compassionate about very specific things or triggers. And sticky probably already knows all of this...

My daughter is on the mild end and she is very empathic. The problem is that everything is in a range of variables and shades of gray. It seems that "professionals" are so into publishing and being the authority that they fail to see individuals.
I guess some folks fail to see and treat everyone as a unique being.
On a different note, in this country it seems that the very far right and the very far left have way too many chances of influence. Frankly I really don't think the majority of Americans have any hate for the lgbtq community. So many of us have members of our family and friends in the community. I'm an old white straight guy. However, I have nothing but respect for the strength of those in the transgender community. I wish you all well and you always have my support and of many people I know. Even my friend grants Church with over 150 members preach that love is for absolutely everybody and God makes no distinction. I'm not religious in the least but it does show that there are many people of faith that do support the trans Community as well. I wish more people would take time to read all the comments on this board and see what a wonderful cross-section of opinions are here. Be well everyone.

 

[stickygirl]

Just want to say sticky that even though I posted that giant eyesore in here, I'm glad to see you're around and happy pride month

Been planning a pride event here and some normals have been challenging but it has been awesome to do stuff for the community as my passion, out of my heart, while being on medical leave lol

So how are you going to give yourself some trans joy this month?

You're always welcome.
Over here we're aware of Pride month and there are events in June, but we tend to have city-based pride events. Ours is in July with all the fun that goes with it, but you could hop from one city to another for a whole summer of events.

Also, I'm not great with crowds so if I do go I have to screw up my courage, then crash after.

 

[Zrosey]

Even my friend grants Church with over 150 members preach that love is for absolutely everybody and God makes no distinction. I'm not religious in the least but it does show that there are many people of faith that do support the trans Community as well.

Of the people of faith out there that do support those on the lgbtq spectrum, I wish they would do more to make their voices heard! I’m not religious at all, i was brought up in a fairly conservative family back ground that always attended church. Of course on sundays I would hear all the biblical talk of loving thy neighbor, caring for the misfortuned but by Monday it was back to business as usual....

With so many of these in the right wing fascist party that apparently believe they are Christian, the ones that actually do support oppressed people need to speak up!

 

[eomerson]

Of the people of faith out there that do support those on the lgbtq spectrum, I wish they would do more to make their voices heard! I’m not religious at all, i was brought up in a fairly conservative family back ground that always attended church. Of course on sundays I would hear all the biblical talk of loving thy neighbor, caring for the misfortuned but by Monday it was back to business as usual....

With so many of these in the right wing fascist party that apparently believe they are Christian, the ones that actually do support oppressed people need to speak up!

Dead right! Though not religious, I have read the Bible (and dozens of other religious writings) and I dont know where it says hate gays, lesbians, transpeople etc. in the New Testament. Maybe some passages in the Old Testament but not in the NT. Many Unitarians, UCC etc do stand up but ....sadly...nobody wants to report on good people. The far right and media only push hate. The guy with the beard was pretty much all about love and acceptance.
Life is way the hell too short for hating people because they arent the same as you. All we can do for sure is be good people and educate others. Be well and stay safe all!