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[stickygirl]

Here's some good news from the UK for a change. Because our govt is out of ideas it is basically a mirror for the GOP and 'free speech' 'cancel culture' 'woke' are all in the crosshairs. It slipped past me but apparently the govt even introduced legislation to 'protect free speech' in higher education.
This piece from the Guardian was from a new chair for LGBTQ History at Oxford University that throws a bucket of calm the fuck down over the right wing pearl-clutching. Worth a read

 

[eomerson]

Here in the states the vitriol is equal by the far left and the far right when you look at it with unbiased eyes. The extremes are all bad. We need to all take the middle ground and just let everyone be. Its a hostility spiral fueled by the media in the US which breeds hatred but really its only the very edges of the right and left that make things so bad. We need more calm speech. We are all just folks....I cant stand ANY hate mongering by anyone against anyone. A lot of old guys like me are of the same opinion....let everyone live their best life. Sigh...its frustrating.....

 

[stickygirl]

Here in the states the vitriol is equal by the far left and the far right when you look at it with unbiased eyes. The extremes are all bad. We need to all take the middle ground and just let everyone be. Its a hostility spiral fueled by the media in the US which breeds hatred but really its only the very edges of the right and left that make things so bad. We need more calm speech. We are all just folks....I cant stand ANY hate mongering by anyone against anyone. A lot of old guys like me are of the same opinion....let everyone live their best life. Sigh...its frustrating.....

I agree but wouldn't necessarily couch in terms of political left/right but politicians making, as my gran used to say, mountains out of molehills. There are probably more anti-trans laws than there are students in schools. People around in the 1970s tell much the same happened against gays and lesbians, who were attacked as perverts out to steal children. In the UK we had Thatcher and her legislation that fed the ingrained homophobia of the older generation with the same style of fear-mongering.
As more people in society can claim to know a trans person ( I saw a stat recently that 30% of the US population do ) then the hysteria of politicians and law makers starts to sound hollow to the voters.

 

[stickygirl]

I've just read a review of Elliot Page's memoir Pageboy in Time magazine and it looks quite good. I never used to be convinced by the wobbly, starry eyed child/adult morph of his previous acting life and thought him just another Hollywood luvvy - vain and introspective.
Weeelll I was wrong. Since Elliott himself admits he was wrong then we can all be included in the mistaken identity.

A couple of things jumped out.
'Walking past shop fronts and doing sideways glances at yourself, how you walk and hold yourself.'
Just spending SO much time fretting about your self image generally that you never have energy for normal interests. Sometimes we can blame ourselves for the knots we tie ourselves in 'I brought this on myself' 'If I acted normally all these thoughts would go away' but that very guilt is symptomatic of dysphoria.

I was lucky in that I could express my dysphoria from the get-go, but Elliott, being so much in the public eye, had to hide himself behind the lovely dresses and then the lesbian persona. So when he came out as trans, I admit I did roll my eyes a little, but having read this article and a few others about him, it all makes sense and I'm happy for him.

If anyone reads the book, come and tell us more.

 

[stickygirl]

We hear so much about gender dysphoria, I say – have you experienced any body euphoria since transitioning? His face creases into an ecstatic smile. “To be honest, Simon, I experience it every single day when I wake up in the morning. When I say that I was always consumed by discomfort, I mean it. So the fact that I get up in the morning and get out of bed and stretch like this [he extends his arms to their full length] – that to me is body euphoria.” Soon after transitioning, he showed off his new six-pack. Does he still have it? “Yes,” he says proudly. “Working out this morning without my shirt on, and just being sweaty and jumping in the shower, just being able to be present in my body and the joy of it … When I say I never thought I’d feel this way I really, really mean that. I never thought I would just feel: ‘Oh here I am and I’m going about my day.’ So for me body euphoria is the most obvious stuff – getting out of the shower, seeing myself in the mirror, walking down the street with my shoulders back and just feeling like I can engage with the world in a present way.”
Amen to that. I may wait for the paperback version though

 

[Zrosey]

I marked Pageboy as a book I want to read on my Libby app, it allows me to borrow ebooks from my state library. Unfortunately they don't have Elliott's book...yet anyways.
Think I'll be pretty tempted to buy it if I'm in a brick an mortar book store anytime soon!

 

[coati]

Since Elliott himself admits he was wrong then we can all be included in the mistaken identity.

I recall being impressed with his work in Juno but sensing that there was a lot going on under the surface.

I love it when people find themselves and, better yet, when they ultimately find joy in expressing themselves. It does not always work out that way, and Elliott himself probably had no idea how it was going to work out. I'm so glad it did.

 

[Crios]

I don’t understand why people feel the need to meddle in things that are none of their business. Who cares about other people’s gender identity or sexual orientation? What is this strange compulsion? Is it a reflection of their own fears, doubts, confusion?

Fear. People fear what they don't understand. Right wing, racist, homophobic despots (think Hitler, Trump) and others pretending to be Christian, play on people's fears and stoke the fires and teach them to hate.

 

[stickygirl]

Fear. People fear what they don't understand. Right wing, racist, homophobic despots (think Hitler, Trump) and others pretending to be Christian, play on people's fears and stoke the fires and teach them to hate.

Except in the context of the quoted article referring to Elliott's experiences, not fear, but power. Those negative ploys fall out of the same pot.

 

[Crios]

Except in the context of the quoted article referring to Elliott's experiences, not fear, but power. Those negative ploys fall out of the same pot.

True!

 

[coati]

Before the recent book and interviews, i had been following Elliott's journey ever since i saw Juno. I recall an interview he did right when he came out as trans, where he expressed such poignient uncertainty about his future.

Now he is substituting the word "euphoria" for "dysphoria".

Tonight i saw a piece on PBS about a lesbian couple with an adopted daughter who decided to remain in their very conservative community of the deep south. All three family members spoke about how.being themselves as a loving family has changed their local community.

Inspirational stories during Pride Month.

 

[Zrosey]

Tonight i saw a piece on PBS about a lesbian couple with an adopted daughter who decided to remain in their very conservative community of the deep south. All three family members spoke about how.being themselves as a loving family has changed their local community.

This takes some serious bravery and resolution to stay in a place that likely isn't very welcoming to their lifestyle.
But dang! I believe people like them will be some of the one's leading by example, making the world a better place for those of us on the spectrum.

 

[coati]

This takes some serious bravery and resolution to stay in a place that likely isn't very welcoming to their lifestyle.
But dang! I believe people like them will be some of the one's leading by example, making the world a better place for those of us on the spectrum.

It was a great show, with all the interviewing being done by a gay black man who had been forced out of his church leadership role in the South due to his sexuality. He escaped to NYC and became a Broadway performance artist, but always wondered about those "others" who did not choose to leave.

He also interviewed a trans woman who held her ground in another part of the South, and several gay people who did the same thing. They just refused to leave their hometowns, and ultimately they made progress in their communities toward acceptance of diversity, just as MLK, Jr had done.

 

[Zrosey]

It was a great show, with all the interviewing being done by a gay black man who had been forced out of his church leadership role in the South due to his sexuality. He escaped to NYC and became a Broadway performance artist, but always wondered about those "others" who did not choose to leave.

He also interviewed a trans woman who held her ground in another part of the South, and several gay people who did the same thing. They just refused to leave their hometowns, and ultimately they made progress in their communities toward acceptance of diversity, just as MLK, Jr had done.

It can be so hard to out yourself depending where you live. This is gotta be something all of us in the community struggle with!
I'm still at the point where many in my small rural town don't know me as transgender although I'm pretty sure they are aware something is up!
Even outing myself to friends has been stressful, but thankfully by and large I have found them willing to stay as friends

I think the visibility, when people see that us on the spectrum are okay and not the monsters that the far right animals make us out to be, they become much more willing to accept us as neighbors and friends.

 

[stickygirl]

Ooo lets not get into etymology but... euphoria expresses a single burst of joy, where dysphoria describes an accretion of emotions, from uneasiness to depression. Any good?

I suspect Elliott is still going through the heady high of being post transition and he deserves to feel on top of the world. From my own experience, you begin to calm down into a better place, called contentment.

 

[coati]

What struck me the most about the PBS show about Pride in the deep south was how all the featured subjects learned to set aside the elements of societal hostility, the elements that desired to use hostility to impose a state of illness on "others". The married lesbian couple and their daughter had a mantra of "Oh well, they just don't know what they don't know."

In a democracy, people have a right to seek wellness. The people attempting to deny that right are unaware of the deep illness that is gradually consuming them like a cancer.

 

[eomerson]

I think that brave souls that started coming out to families and friends from the 1970s forward has made such an impact. Some people will always hate. However, I think once everyone could say my cousin, my friend, my neighbor eyc is such a good person that that has done more to break down walls of hate. My parents grew up with the church saying gays were pediphiles. My cousin came out in the early 70s and they changed their minds overnight as everyone loved Al. I think as people become more educated and meet trans people, the better it will become. Sadly the news pushes the most extreme people on both sides to whoop up ratings and hate rather than show that everyone is just a person. Both sides in the US political sysyem and our awful media use the folks in the LGBTQ community for ratings and causing rifts for political power rather than using common ground for acceptance. Its funny and a lot of my friends that are fiscally conservative are also socially liberal. We all hate the government telling people what to do, how to live etc but dont want them spending us into oblivion. To a person, everyone has someone they know in the LGBTQ community and they hate the bigoted crap being spewed out. Weird how our idiots in government and media fail to note this. Well. I went on a rant. Sorry. I just see so many people that dont like hate mongering but negativity is all that is pushed. Trans people need support...not hate...I cant imagine how bad it would be to have gender dysphoria and not get mental health, medical and other support needed. Really the cost to siciety to help is piddling...just buy one less F35 jet and there is the money to help. Be well everyone!

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks both
Here's a piece from MSNBC that nails the whole issue perfectly = permission to hate

 

[CountryGuy2]

This showed up in my news. It talks about trans or intersex people in history.

Transgender History Makers They Didn't Teach You About In School​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...&cvid=e2ce9ef78bd040819912e423c6735a95&ei=220

 

[stickygirl]

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/17/1182857774/fathers-day-dads-dad-military-pregnant-immigrant

Kayden Coleman featured in this article. Black transgender man who gave birth to his 2 daughters. Giving advice as a father (one of 3 fathers featured in article).

Sharing here rather than on own thread because this one gets looked at more. And I think people tend to get confused and think, hey, if you give birth, doesn't that make you a woman? Or hey, if you are a trans man, shouldn't you be unable to give birth? Or not want to?

No and no.

And not necessarily.

(And the photos of him and his daughters are adorable.)

Hmm, that's an interesting read and so was @CountryGuy2 and you're very welcome to post here. It'll be good for readers to maybe scratch their heads ... but... but... Oh, right!

Late to the party as always, it occurred to me that the unique perspective of a trans man can serve to help regular guys and fathers. I transitioned in my teens so I didn't have all that much male-orientated experience, but the whole process of transitioning means you bury your nose in all kinds of gender related information. Same as you - hell, you made into an academic study!!

 

[stickygirl]

This showed up in my news. It talks about trans or intersex people in history.

Transgender History Makers They Didn't Teach You About In School​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...&cvid=e2ce9ef78bd040819912e423c6735a95&ei=220

Good read thanks. I've nothing against articles that highlight the lives of notable trans folk - they all help. I'd expected to see that US soldier who fought alongside other men in the USWoI.

 

[eomerson]

I think that what makes a good father is truly good role models. There is no reason that a trans man could not be a wonderful father. I think that in many cases you learn to be a father from your father and observing what they are like. Yes, I know there are many terrible fathers and mothers for that matter, but there are so many wonderful father figures. If a trans man is lucky to have a great father figure, the odds are great that that person will also be a great father. With a lack of a great father figure, there are many great sources that you can use from observing other great fathers and how they interact with their children, to books on the subject and sometimes just talking to other people to get a feeling on what is the best thing a father can do. I will say this about All fathers, you're never really afraid in your life until you have a child. If you are any kind of a man you will always be fearful and protective of your children and that applies to trans men too. I think in some instances, however, trans men and trans women may not have the parental support that they really do need and deserve as children but, unfortunately, many non-trans people have the same issue of unsupportive and terrible parents. I think the universal thing here is that any father, or mother, looks deeply at what their role is and how they can improve on what they experienced as a child. Even if you had a great father and mother, you can always look to see what else might have been a little bit better. In that way I think kids have a much better upbringing and, hopefully, kids that may be facing any type of issue will feel comfortable coming to their dad or their mom.

 

[stickygirl]

You don't have to be a guy to wear comfortable clothes

I was just reading another article about Elliot Page and there's always something that jumps out. I forget which one this was, but there was a comment about Page not dressing the part of a starlet or falling drunk out of a club. He was criticised for preferring flannel shirts and loose fitting pants, describing them as comfortable.

Now that he's out, probably all of us have slapped our forehead and said 'Of course, it's obvious!' most of all Elliott himself. The comfortable description meant something else too - it spoke to every woman who doesn't feel the need to play the game of 'I'm available but you can't touch'. So thank you, Elliott, for allowing me to be comfortable in dungarees or shapeless pullovers - I spent so long trying to fly under the radar and hiding my body, but Elliott made it cool. I was cool all along of course

 

[stickygirl]

Hidden Figures and pee

I love that film, that focuses on the brilliant Katherine Johnson and her role in the space program, right up until the space shuttle. I don't know what she would have thought about transgender people, but she would have appreciated more than most that segregation is cruel and pointless. When I watch the film, I'm vicariously embarrassed that black people were treated that way. Maybe in a few years time someone will watch a film about transgender people, feel the same shame and realise we all pee the same colour.

 

[eomerson]

LOL....sorry but just the imagery of peeing the same color. You made me smike.