Non natives

[eomerson]

One thought that bubbles up is about my Uncle Teague. He was from Strabane. He would visit us here in the States. It was sometimes hard as we both spoke English but our dialects were so different!
To all the writers who write in English but have a different first language, you are doinf great and glad you are here!

 

[HectorBidon]

Is that also a correct way to say it? I thought "my enemy" and "enemy of mine" is the only correct wording, but again, I am a Jon Snow when it comes to the intricacies of English grammar.

The use of "mine" instead of "my" (and "thine" instead of "thy") before words that start with a vowel is an archaic usage that you will sometimes come across in phrases written long ago:

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."

"Drink to me only with thine eyes."

 

[oneagainst]

The use of "mine" instead of "my" (and "thine" instead of "thy") before words that start with a vowel is an archaic usage that you will sometimes come across in phrases written long ago:

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."

"Drink to me only with thine eyes."

You have to bear in mind that when Shakespeare was jotting his plays down, English grammar was less a set of rules and more a loose conglomerate of guidelines. Even today, a Northerner is likely to "be off down the pub with me missus" instead of taking one's wife for a night out. Which I guess is your standard basic nightmare for English-as-a-second-language writers...!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Is that also a correct way to say it? I thought "my enemy" and "enemy of mine" is the only correct wording, but again, I am a Jon Snow when it comes to the intricacies of English grammar.

It's an old-fashioned style that you wouldn't normally encounter in modern English, but might find in old sources or poetic language.

As per Merriam-Webster, "mine" is (mostly was) used as an alternative to "my" when the following word begins with a vowel. One of the best-known examples shows up in Battle Hymn of the Republic, written 1861 [edit: I see @HectorBidon gave this same example earlier]:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord

If you imagine singing that as "my eyes", the two words risk blurring together. The "n" in "mine" allows for a cleaner separation. Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus uses it in the same way:

There to dispose this treasure in mine arms

And specifically for "mine enemy", see the Book of Micah in the King James version of the Bible:

Then she that is mine enemy shall see it,

Merriam-Webster acknowledges it as also being used "as a modifier of a preceding noun" with the note that this is "archaic except in an elevated style".

There was a 1985 movie "Enemy Mine" which uses it this way. In that case the title might be hinting at a double meaning: "my" has fairly neutral connotations so "my enemy" is just somebody hostile to me, but "mine" is more usually associated with something we feel attached to and want to keep, and the film is about two enemies who end up becoming allies.

(The film also has a side plot concerning an actual mine, the type where one digs stuff out of the ground, and I've seen some speculation that this was tacked on because a studio exec took the "mine" in the title as a noun and was confused that there wasn't a mine in the story.)

Any modern use of "enemy mine"/"mine enemy" is likely to be a deliberate stylistic choice done to evoke some effect, e.g. an old-fashioned/grandiose feeling.

 

[djrip]

It's an old-fashioned style that you wouldn't normally encounter in modern English, but might find in old sources or poetic language.

As per Merriam-Webster, "mine" is (mostly was) used as an alternative to "my" when the following word begins with a vowel. One of the best-known examples shows up in Battle Hymn of the Republic, written 1861 [edit: I see @HectorBidon gave this same example earlier]:



If you imagine singing that as "my eyes", the two words risk blurring together. The "n" in "mine" allows for a cleaner separation. Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus uses it in the same way:



Merriam-Webster acknowledges it as also being used "as a modifier of a preceding noun" (RR's use) with the note that this is "archaic except in an elevated style".

There was a 1985 movie "Enemy Mine" which uses it this way. In that case the title might be hinting at a double meaning: "my" has fairly neutral connotations so "my enemy" is just somebody hostile to me, but "mine" is more usually associated with something we feel attached to and want to keep, and the film is about two enemies who end up becoming allies.

(The film also has a side plot concerning an actual mine, the type where one digs stuff out of the ground, and I've seen some speculation that this was tacked on because a studio exec took the "mine" in the title as a noun and was confused that there wasn't a mine in the story.)

Great movie. If I remember it right. I was probably around 10 when it used to come on.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Great movie. If I remember it right. I was probably around 10 when it used to come on.

I don't think I've ever seen it, but I absorbed the general idea via osmosis (and googled the rest before posting ;-)

 

[Blind_Justice]

"Mein Gegner" in German = "my enemy" in English.

I'll leave that here for your enjoyment.

 

[XerXesXu]

"enemy mine"/"mine enemy" is likely to be a deliberate stylistic choice done to evoke some effect, e.g. an old-fashioned/grandiose feeling.

A neat summary of the whole purpose of natural language, spoken or written. Language is , 'deep learnt', it doesn't follow logical/mathematical rules, and mastery (see Humpty Dumpty) requires that you learn what buttons to press. Use it artfully to use it creatively.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Couple pedantic points: Urdu and Hindi of course are related, so Hindi qualifies as origin for pyjamas (or 'pajamas' in American) as well. In the English adoption, the plural 's' got added (I suppose like 'trousers' or 'briefs' when the original was 'pyjama' - singular for the bottom garment worn at night.)

But cross-words get mangled all the time in their transit from one language to another, nothing unusual there.

Aren't Hindi and Urdu the same spoken language, but with different alphabets when written? Or am I wrong about that?

 

[eomerson]

Aren't Hindi and Urdu the same spoken language, but with different alphabets when written? Or am I wrong about that?

Spoken ....they are the same. Different writing systems. My friend Hari explained it for me. If you speak one, everyone can understand you.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It's an old-fashioned style that you wouldn't normally encounter in modern English, but might find in old sources or poetic language.

As per Merriam-Webster, "mine" is (mostly was) used as an alternative to "my" when the following word begins with a vowel. [...]
Any modern use of "enemy mine"/"mine enemy" is likely to be a deliberate stylistic choice done to evoke some effect, e.g. an old-fashioned/grandiose feeling.

'Mine host' was used by authors like Bram Stoker, Agatha Christie and PG Wodehouse - it seemed to be common among upper-class characters until round WWII.

But now I'm wondering whether the H of 'host' was silent? Christie's characters certainly made the H silent in 'hotel', though she even left the circumflex on it to show it was a 'foreign' word.

Even today, a Northerner is likely to "be off down the pub with me missus" instead of taking one's wife for a night out.

A casually-speaking and especially a working-class Southerner would also "be off down the pub with me missus" (reference: him next door!) - while the Northern version might "be aff dan pub wi' t'missus" (varying by county...)

 

[onehitwanda]

'Mine host' was used by authors like Bram Stoker, Agatha Christie and PG Wodehouse - it seemed to be common among upper-class characters until round WWII.

But now I'm wondering whether the H of 'host' was silent? Christie's characters certainly made the H silent in 'hotel', though she even left the circumflex on it to show it was a 'foreign' word.


A casually-speaking and especially a working-class Southerner would also "be off down the pub with me missus" (reference: him next door!) - while the Northern version might "be aff dan pub wi' t'missus" (varying by county...)

I know this is something tangential, but it is critical to note that, specifically in London, "Take the missus up the OXO Tower/Shard" is an idiom for anal sex. I have no idea why, but another girl at one of my previous jobs discovered this to her horror when she innocently told a room full of sales guys that she'd gone up the OXO tower for a date.

 

[XerXesXu]

'Mine host' was used by authors like Bram Stoker, Agatha Christie and PG Wodehouse - it seemed to be common among upper-class characters until round WWII.

But now I'm wondering whether the H of 'host' was silent? Christie's characters certainly made the H silent in 'hotel', though she even left the circumflex on it to show it was a 'foreign' word.

My Dad and his parents were very keen on 'aitch muet', they were of Cornish working-class stock. My Mum was Irish, she didn't care. I never found out if it's spelt 'aitch' or 'haitch' with the h/aitch muet. The origins of host and host are different so it may well be 'Mine h/ost', h/aitch muet.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I know this is something tangential, but it is critical to note that, specifically in London, "Take the missus up the OXO Tower/Shard" is an idiom for anal sex. I have no idea why, but another girl at one of my previous jobs discovered this to her horror when she innocently told a room full of sales guys that she'd gone up the OXO tower for a date.

The Oxo Tower was built to advertise Oxo cubes. Back in the day, advertising on the sides of tall buildings wasn't allowed (still isn't, generally), so they got round it by integrating an O, X and O into the brickwork. It's an impressive building, with an expensive restaurant a few floors up, and a very expensive restaurant/cocktail bar on the top floor with stunning views up and down the Thames, including Parliament, Tower Bridge, and all.

The Shard is an incredibly tall skyscraper alone by London Bridge. It's very narrow for the top 20 floors partly so it doesn't breach the legislation for protected sightlines of St. Paul's. There's about 15 points round London from which you have to be able to see St Paul's, which is why all our skyscrapers are in two clusters, in the City and in Docklands. The Cheesegrater and Walkie-Talkie buildings are also shaped to avoid breaking this law.

Tower or Shard are euphemisms for penis, just like shaft or sword or prick. Oxo cubes are very dark brown and crumbly, used to make gravy (the stuff made ideally from meat juices, not the white sauce Yanks call gravy). So yeah, to take someone up the Oxo tower is to fuck them up the arse. (See also uphill gardening, dipping the wick in boot polish, playing in the mud, leaving the easy pink and playing the difficult brown (snooker reference) etc). Taking someone up the Shard, the orifice is unspecified.

You'd typically only go to either for a very special date, so chances are that getting your leg over is also on the agenda.

 

[onehitwanda]

yeah, I work in London so I know them both (and the sightlines, I used to live within walking distance of Richmond Park) and I cook with oxo cubes sometimes - but I hadn't made the connection about the oxo cube consistency and... what lives up there

eaving the easy pink and playing the difficult brown

oh god no hahahaha. Suddenly I'm thinking about Mudlarking

Have you ever heard the urban legend about OXO wrappers? Some bunch of bastards started a rumour that if you went to the OXO tower with a bunch of old OXO wrappers, you'd get a free meal