Non natives

[AwkwardlySet]

As I've probably mentioned before, English is not my first language. More than that, I've never even been to a country where English is a native language, so writing directly in English has been challenging in some ways I wasn't able to predict when I started writing, although I believe I've learned a lot since then. When I read some of my early work I tend to cringe at grammar and style errors (the ones I can actually detect right now). I would really love to have the possibility to edit my stories and correct those errors.
ANYWAY, that wasn't the point of this topic. After reading so many posts and participating in many topics in AH, I've gotten an impression that the vast majority of AH people are native English speakers (US, Canada, UK, Australia...)
How many of us are from different countries, where English isn't a native language?

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm very impressed by those who contribute stories in English for whom it's not their native language. Take it from this former English teacher: you are doing very well!

 

[Djmac1031]

If English isn't your "native" language (I sorta take issue with that term but understand it's usage in this case) I certainly can't tell at first glance.

My only real thought is someone who ONLY speaks English has absolutely no right whatsoever to critique someone for whom English is their second language for mistakes or inconsistencies in writing.

English isn't some "superior" language, just the most popular.

So those of us who were born and raised to speak / write it shouldn't feel we're any better than those who learned it as a second language and may not have fully mastered it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Thank you for the support, but I am not fishing for sympathy here , I really do want to know how many of AH denizens, beside me, come from non-English countries, and what their experiences with writing in English are.

 

[onehitwanda]

English isn't some "superior" language, just the most popular.

in many ways it's a terrible, mongrel language. I'm first language English but conversationally fluent in a second. I also studied Latin at school, and have dabbled in German.

Latin and Germanic languages go: Here are the rules. Learn the rules and the language will make sense.

English stomps in, farts, drinks a beer, demands to see the manager, yells "Un Cervezzo Por Favors" and laughs at itself, then wets itself while trying to urinate on the rule book before trying to set said rulebook on fire because of "What it said about our Sharon."

basically, it's a horrific language to learn as a non-native speaker. The rules are there merely for amusement.

I mean:

1 mouse, two mice.
1 sheep, two sheep (what the fuck).

And gender is hillarious.

meanwhile, in Latin:

amo: I love
amare: To love
amavi: I loved
amabo: I will love

And every other verb in the same conjugation behaves exactly the same way (with, perhaps, one or two really weird exceptions).

Edit: The Normans really should have just made everyone speak French.

 

[MrPixel]

The Normans really should have just made everyone speak French.

French? Anything but French. French doesn't know a consonant it doesn't hate.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

in many ways it's a terrible, mongrel language. I'm first language English but conversationally fluent in a second. I also studied Latin at school, and have dabbled in German.

Latin and Germanic languages go: Here are the rules. Learn the rules and the language will make sense.

English stomps in, farts, drinks a beer, demands to see the manager, yells "Un Cervezzo Por Favors" and laughs at itself, then wets itself while trying to urinate on the rule book before trying to set said rulebook on fire because of "What it said about our Sharon."

basically, it's a horrific language to learn as a non-native speaker. The rules are there merely for amusement.

I mean:

1 mouse, two mice.
1 sheep, two sheep (what the fuck).

And gender is hillarious.

meanwhile, in Latin:

amo: I love
amare: To love
amavi: I loved
amabo: I will love

And every other verb in the same conjugation behaves exactly the same way (with, perhaps, one or two really weird exceptions).

Edit: The Normans really should have just made everyone speak French.

There are funny examples in my language as well, but I think the biggest difference is about cases.
Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, English has three cases?
-subjective (I, you, he)
-objective (me, you, him)
-possessive (my, your, his)

Latin has 6 cases if I remember right, and my language has 7, so maybe you English people aren't that crazy, after all

 

[SimonDoom]

in many ways it's a terrible, mongrel language. I'm first language English but conversationally fluent in a second. I also studied Latin at school, and have dabbled in German.

Latin and Germanic languages go: Here are the rules. Learn the rules and the language will make sense.

English stomps in, farts, drinks a beer, demands to see the manager, yells "Un Cervezzo Por Favors" and laughs at itself, then wets itself while trying to urinate on the rule book before trying to set said rulebook on fire because of "What it said about our Sharon."

basically, it's a horrific language to learn as a non-native speaker. The rules are there merely for amusement.

I mean:

1 mouse, two mice.
1 sheep, two sheep (what the fuck).

And gender is hillarious.

meanwhile, in Latin:

amo: I love
amare: To love
amavi: I loved
amabo: I will love

And every other verb in the same conjugation behaves exactly the same way (with, perhaps, one or two really weird exceptions).

Edit: The Normans really should have just made everyone speak French.

This is one of the best, and best-put, rants I've read in a while. Bravo.

 

[onehitwanda]

There are funny examples in my language as well, but I think the biggest difference is about cases.
Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, English has three cases?
-subjective (I, you, he)
-objective (me, you, him)
-possessive (my, your, his)

Latin has 6 cases if I remember right, and my language has 7, so maybe you English people aren't that crazy, after all

From my brief googling, English has:

* nominative (subjective)
* genitive (possessive)
* accusative (objective)
and is generally accepted to have
* dative

Latin has six, from what I remember, but nominative and vocative are largely functionally identical.

I always used to snigger at

unum, duo, tria, quattor, quinque, sex

and I was always utterly infantile about the origin of the term vagina

 

[onehitwanda]

This is one of the best, and best-put, rants I've read in a while. Bravo.

It's been brewing for a while

 

[AwkwardlySet]

From my brief googling, English has:

* nominative (subjective)
* genitive (possessive)
* accusative (objective)
and is generally accepted to have
* dative

Can you give me an example of dative in English?

 

[MrPixel]

Can you give me an example of dative in English?

Sure: "I asked Kathy to go out with me for dinner and a movie, and we went back to her place afterwards."

 

[onehitwanda]

Can you give me an example of dative in English?

"Onehitwanda gave the giant, gold-plated, diamante-studded novelty dildo to @EmilyMiller"

I believe that the key part of the dative is the use of `to` or `from`. At least, that's how it was always described to me. Ablative in Latin was always accompanied by "by, with, from, in, on" or variations thereof.

 

[oneagainst]

This feels like it needs an @EmilyMiller bar graph, but here we go.

English, as in British English. School German and French. Fluent in Northern English, Australian and New Zealandish. Can understand American at a pinch, enough to order a burger and a beer. In Vegas.

 

[onehitwanda]

Northern English

Get tae feck, ye southern pansy.

Edit: ironic because I'm still in my heart of hearts an Antipodean.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

"Onehitwanda gave the giant, gold-plated, diamante-studded novelty dildo to @EmilyMiller"

I believe that the key part of the dative is the use of `to` or `from`. At least, that's how it was always described to me. Ablative in Latin was always accompanied by "by, with, from, in, on" or variations thereof.

Aha, I was expecting some special case or something This is all very interesting for me to compare. I'll try to give the examples of my language cases in English

1. Nominative - Peter is going to work
2. Genitive - I bought a pound of peanuts
3. Dative - I gave my book to Peter
4. Accusative - I saw Peter walking down the street.
5. Vocative - Hey! Peter!
6. Instrumental - I went to the game with Peter. I shattered that walnut with my hammer
7. Locative - The Eiffel Tower is in Paris. Books are on the shelf.

6 and 7 are combined into ablative in Latin (I think)

 

[onehitwanda]

Genitive - I bought a pound of peanuts

this is odd... in English or Latin, genitive would be

"I tickled the girl's ear" - as in, the ear belonging to the girl.

Hmm.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

When I taught English as as a language, I learned of all the trippiest "rules" the one that gets kids the most spun up is phrasal verbs.

Jump on vs. jump in vs. jump off... I get why it's frustrating.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

this is odd... in English or Latin, genitive would be

"I tickled the girl's ear" - as in, the ear belonging to the girl.

Hmm.

Well, there is some implied possessiveness in my sentence. There are many different forms of genitive in my language.

She is the daughter of my friend. - possessive genitive

I got rid of my stage fear. ablative genitive

The car went off the road location genitive

and more.

 

[onehitwanda]

Well, there is some implied possessiveness in my sentence. There are many different forms of genitive in my language.

She is the daughter of my friend. - possessive genitive

I got rid of my stage fear. ablative genitive

The car went off the road location genitive

and more.

 

[Euphony]

It's been brewing for a while

Long steeped yet barely perceptible bitterness.

Nothing a touch of milk and honey won't smooth out.

Hella cuppa.

 

[onehitwanda]

Long steeped yet barely perceptible bitterness.

Nothing a touch of milk and honey won't smooth out.

Hella cuppa.

An acquired taste. Like absinthe.

 

[Omenainen]

How many of us are from different countries, where English isn't a native language?

Me.

 

[Omenainen]

Oh and my experience of writing in a language that’s not my own? It feels a little like trying to draw holding the crayons with my toes. I don’t have the nuance I have in my own language and it’s frustrating.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Oh and my experience of writing in a language that’s not my own? It feels a little like trying to draw holding the crayons with my toes. I don’t have the nuance I have in my own language and it’s frustrating.

Well said