Gun violence, American style - 1 in 5

[TrailerHitch]

It's the people with the guns. That's the reality. A baseball bat or a knife or any other number of hand and/or projectile weapons do not have the capacity to kill and injure so many so quickly.

The reality is that we have so many guns that it is too easy for emotionally unstable men and dingbats to get their hands on guns. All kinds of guns.

And because of that, we have mass shootings on a more than daily basis.

As good as water is, even it can be deadly in too great of quantity. We are beyond the saturation point for guns for what can be considered sane and responsible.

Let me be clear...Are you defining the female, transgender person, who did the shooting at the Nashville school as a dingbat? Because it appears you are saying only men and dingbats perpetrate these shootings. No mention of females at all. Interesting.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I find it inordinately ludicrous that there are people honestly worried about "the government" coming for "my guns" so much that they are willing to allow the unstable, the insane and the unfit to have unfettered access to guns.

You keep saying this over and over but where is your proof that the average, law abiding, American gun owner wants the unstable, the insane, and the unfit, to own firearms? None of the gun owners that I know across multiple states would support you in that belief. In fact we want them NOT to have access to firearms because every stupid fucking thing they do affects those of us that obey the law. So like all of you say so often, documentation or it is nothing more than made up horseshit.

 

[phrodeau]

Mental health, punishment, and creating new opportunities economically are viable solutions.

Yes, and so is an assault weapons ban. We should do all of them. But will the GOP get behind the needed funding?

 

[TrailerHitch]

Yes, and so is an assault weapons ban. We should do all of them. But will the GOP get behind the needed funding?

Dude, one last time, very few if any American citizens own true fully automatic assault weapons. It takes a massive amount of paperwork and taxes to own a fully automatic weapon. You cannot go into you neighborhood gun store and buy a fully automatic weapon. The AR-15's that seem to be the gun of choice are civilian models that fire only semi-automatic, meaning one round for each trigger pull.

This is why you can't get anything done because you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[coati]

Dude, one last time, very few if any American citizens own true fully automatic assault weapons. It takes a massive amount of paperwork and taxes to own a fully automatic weapon. You cannot go into you neighborhood gun store and buy a fully automatic weapon. The AR-15's that seem to be the gun of choice are civilian models that fire only semi-automatic, meaning one round for each trigger pull.

This is why you can't get anything done because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Not impressed at all with your knowledge of guns. That's a worn-out right-wing approach to promoting proliferation of guns among the general population.

The poster did not specify "fully automatic", asshole.

 

[KeithD]

A child is almost as likely to die from a gun as they are to die from a car accident.

Thanks to gun nuts, this has now been pushed to more children die from guns in the United States than from car accidents.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Yes, and so is an assault weapons ban. We should do all of them. But will the GOP get behind the needed funding?

No, the GOP will not support a ban on semiautomatic rifles. Even if Congress restored the so-called “assault rifle ban”, it would be struck down by the courts under the common use doctrine. Add to that the fact that there are millions and millions in gun owners hands today.

If semiautomatic rifles all disappeared tomorrow, mass shooters would use semiautomatic pistols. Same magazine capacity. It’s true the 556 rounds used in most semiautomatic rifles can inflict more harm than say an 9mm pistol. Also true that recoil on a handgun is more of a factor than it is with an AR type rifle. But when shooting defenseless children in a classroom or office workers in a conference room, it doesn’t make much difference.

Most realistic option is to focus on improving and expanding red flag laws, gun restraining orders, and catch things in background checks, with due process. Holding parents/guardians accountable for securing their guns is another area that needs much improvement.

 

[icanhelp1]

Not impressed at all with your knowledge of guns. That's a worn-out right-wing approach to promoting proliferation of guns among the general population.

The poster did not specify "fully automatic", asshole.

The poster specified an assault weapon. An assault weapon is a weapon designed to lay down automatic suppressive fire while attacking forward. M-16, M-4, AKs of various models are all assault weapons of war. Pull the trigger once and unload a full magazine in seconds.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

The poster specified an assault weapon. An assault weapon is a weapon designed to lay down automatic suppressive fire while attacking forward. M-16, M-4, AKs of various models are all assault weapons of war. Pull the trigger once and unload a full magazine in seconds.

Some unintentionally misuse the term. Others do it deliberately.

 

[phrodeau]

This is why you can't get anything done because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Then let’s go over your plan to ensure that all gun owners remain in good mental health. What’s involved in that? A test along with the background check? Annual checkups to retain your arsenal? Are you OK with that, and would you expect the government to pay for it?

 

[icanhelp1]

No, the GOP will not support a ban on semiautomatic rifles. Even if Congress restored the so-called “assault rifle ban”, it would be struck down by the courts under the common use doctrine. Add to that the fact that there are millions and millions in gun owners hands today.

If semiautomatic rifles all disappeared tomorrow, mass shooters would use semiautomatic pistols. Same magazine capacity. It’s true the 556 rounds used in most semiautomatic rifles can inflict more harm than say an 9mm pistol. Also true that recoil on a handgun is more of a factor than it is with an AR type rifle. But when shooting defenseless children in a classroom or office workers in a conference room, it doesn’t make much difference.

Most realistic option is to focus on improving and expanding red flag laws, gun restraining orders, and catch things in background checks, with due process. Holding parents/guardians accountable for securing their guns is another area that needs much improvement.

A person armed with a firearm in a gun free zone is a recipe for disaster.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

A person armed with a firearm in a gun free zone is a recipe for disaster.

True. Equally concerning for me are untrained, unskilled people carrying guns anywhere, even in places where carrying is sanctioned. I would have no problem making passage of a field test a prerequisite for getting a concealed carry permit in my county.

 

[icanhelp1]

True. Equally concerning for me are untrained, unskilled people carrying guns anywhere, even in places where carrying is sanctioned. I would have no problem making passage of a field test a prerequisite for getting a concealed carry permit in my county.

In MA to acquire a firearm’s ID, LTC or class B license you have to take and pass a firearm safety course.

 

[coati]

The poster specified an assault weapon. An assault weapon is a weapon designed to lay down automatic suppressive fire while attacking forward. M-16, M-4, AKs of various models are all assault weapons of war. Pull the trigger once and unload a full magazine in seconds.

Not impressed with your technical definition of assault weapon, either. If it can fire rapidly and with great kill power, it can be used in an assault on innocent civilians. Get your smug head out of your ass.

 

[ll74]

Thanks to gun nuts, this has now been pushed to more children die from guns in the United States than from car accidents.

They just want to have a position other than that more kids die from guns than should be dying from guns.

 

[icanhelp1]

Not impressed with your technical definition of assault weapon, either. If it can fire rapidly and with great kill power, it can be used in an assault on innocent civilians. Get your smug head out of your ass.

Wasn’t trying to impress you, just wanted to take a few seconds to point out the difference between assault and assault style.

 

[adrina]

So you discount scientific evidence that second hand smoke is dangerous and even deadly to people that don't smoke? Add to that if smoking only harms the smoker why is it banned in most public places and government buildings? Or that drunken behavior, whether driving or other erratic violent behavior, doesn't endanger and kill innocent bystanders? These actions do injure and kill others in certain circumstances.

That's not my argument at all. My point is simply this laws are only as good as those that obey them. There are laws against murder and yet murders occur. Why if its illegal? There are a multitude of guns laws and yet these shootings occur. Why if its illegal? My point is simply this, another feel good law that accomplishes nothing is worth exactly that, nothing. You repeatedly scoff at my suggestions to improve mental health and to massively increase criminal penalties for any gun law violation or use of a gun in a crime. You answer with talking points over and over but nothing of any real substance. How about you put down the playbook and just talk to me person to person? I would love to see an end to these mass shootings, as well as an end to gangland violence in the inner city. Mental health, punishment, and creating new opportunities economically are viable solutions.

That's a ridiculous assumption. If you want to speak person to person, then you should do better than to start out with a condescending and utterly ridiculous assumption. Comparing drunk driving and 2nd hand smoke victims to shooting victims is like comparing one grape and one orange to one grapefruit. An interesting tidbit that I did not know is that about 41k Americans die per year by second hand smoke - between lung cancer and heart disease. Nasty habit that one. Logical point of interest, being it is banned in most states' bars then it is most likely that they get exposed at home.

It is funny you should bring that up however. Drunk driving has been criminalized and is treated very seriously by the law. And like you said, smoking has been banned in most states' bars and in all public buildings. Action was taken - because before that it was something of a public menace. Much like gun violence has become.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd love to see mental health issues treated. However republicans vote against them just about every single time they're in play. Just like they vote against so many of the social programs which help support people - to keep them from snapping in desperation.

I've asked many times and only so far one person has put forth an answer, so I'll ask you: how many guns are too many guns? We've got more than 1.2 guns for every man, woman, child and infant in this country. That's over 400 million guns. That's more than a fair few.

We do not have a lack. That is abundantly clear.

A good law - like the semi automatic weapon ban that the republicans repealed? And ever since then mass shootings have increased at a steady and regular pace. Or the legislation that Trump signed which made it easier for the mentally ill to procure guns? Or the one which Desantis just signed in Florida allowing constitutional carry and dropping all requirements for training and a background check?

All of these were sold as "good laws".

 

[adrina]

Let me be clear...Are you defining the female, transgender person, who did the shooting at the Nashville school as a dingbat? Because it appears you are saying only men and dingbats perpetrate these shootings. No mention of females at all. Interesting.

If you, again, want to talk person to person you really shouldn't pick up the conservative anti trans banner for the single incident of a trans person committing a mass shooting.

Especially given that there is only one gender who commits the overwhelming majority of mass shootings.

Look at the stats. 98%+ of shootings, mass shootings and gun violence is perpetrated by men.

 

[adrina]

You keep saying this over and over but where is your proof that the average, law abiding, American gun owner wants the unstable, the insane, and the unfit, to own firearms? None of the gun owners that I know across multiple states would support you in that belief. In fact we want them NOT to have access to firearms because every stupid fucking thing they do affects those of us that obey the law. So like all of you say so often, documentation or it is nothing more than made up horseshit.

See Desantis's law he signed into effect for Florida. Look to see more mass shootings in Florida.

Every law loosening gun access and gun regulation just allows more guns to filter into the hands of the criminals, the emotionally unstable men and the dingbats. And the dumbfuck 18 to 25 males who think guns make them some kind of tough guy.

 

[adrina]

Wasn’t trying to impress you, just wanted to take a few seconds to point out the difference between assault and assault style.

I'm sure the dead children, their families and other Americans who have been victimized by gun violence will appreciate the difference.

 

[coati]

Wasn’t trying to impress you, just wanted to take a few seconds to point out the difference between assault and assault style.

Nahhh, you just wanted to join with TrailerTrash to denigrate a poster who called a semi-automatic AR style gun an assault weapon. That's a worn-out old right-wing move to try to convince people that high powered guns that require multiple trigger pulls or a bump stock are not really assault rifles, as if that makes a difference to multiple victims who have been fatally shot in a single incident within a minute or two.

Tell that shit to the parent of a kid whose skull was blown apart at school.

We are so sick of smug bastards like you who keep trotting out that lame argument.

 

[KeithD]

We are so sick of smug bastards like you who keep trotting out that lame argument.

Amen.

 

[TrailerHitch]

If you, again, want to talk person to person you really shouldn't pick up the conservative anti trans banner for the single incident of a trans person committing a mass shooting.

Especially given that there is only one gender who commits the overwhelming majority of mass shootings.

Look at the stats. 98%+ of shootings, mass shootings and gun violence is perpetrated by men.

I quoted directly what YOU posted. I picked up no banner of any sort. YOU fucked up in what you posted and now are trying to push it off on me. You said men and dingbats. Define dingbats.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Not impressed at all with your knowledge of guns. That's a worn-out right-wing approach to promoting proliferation of guns among the general population.

The poster did not specify "fully automatic", asshole.

Well then you are just as stupid as he is.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Then let’s go over your plan to ensure that all gun owners remain in good mental health. What’s involved in that? A test along with the background check? Annual checkups to retain your arsenal? Are you OK with that, and would you expect the government to pay for it?

How about when a mother tries to get help for her son with obvious mental health issues and is rebuffed at every turn? Let's start there. Why is it so hard for family members to get emergency psychiatric help for there loved ones? And then after the fact people wonder why nothing was done.