Six separate mass shootings bring tally to 324 this year, underscoring continuing US crisis of gun violence

[TastySuckToy]

Your mention of swimming pools is interesting. There are things you can do for safety, such as having a fence around a swimming pool to make sure a toddler doesn't wander into it and drown, that reduce the number of drownings.

In the USA you do these things with swimming pools (and you also regulate trucks for safety, you require gasoline to be stored properly etc.). But you don't do these things with firearms.

False. Guns have safety switches, there are safety courses for using them, designated areas for shooting, background checks for purchases, etc.

Nations with sensible regulations don't have all these mass shootings.

Define 'sensible'. The USA has thousands upon thousands of regulations for guns already.

All of them completely useless when a person decides to ignore them.

 

[TastySuckToy]

guns are made to kill things.
cars are made to get you safely from point a to b in an efficient manner.

And vehicles still kill more people.

Funny how the tool 'made to kill things' cannot keep pace with the tool to 'get you safely from point A to B".

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

And vehicles still kill more people.

Funny how the tool 'made to kill things' cannot keep pace with the tool to 'get you safely from point A to B".

Here’s the pattern:

- first, you think it’s kind of funny

- then you think ‘actually, it’s pretty sad that someone bases his whole outlook on life on such flimsy logic. ‘People die in car accidents so it’s ok if we maintain a gun culture that kills tens of thousands of innocent people every year’. Imagine living like that.’

- and then you think about all those innocent people whose lives are ended early completely unnecessarily at the end of a gun. You think of their parents and children and their friends. And all the things they planned to do with their lives. And then you realize just how immoral it is to argue for the continuation of that. How immoral it is to try to justify it with embarrassingly thin arguments. And to continue to justify it when everyone points out that people who don’t live in gun cultures live without the senseless deaths that come with everyday shootings and they prefer that. They don’t want guns in their countries. Because why would they? But that means nothing to you. You can’t think of it but there must be some other reason why they don’t want guns. Right? And to continue arguing for it just because it’s what you’ve been brought up to believe and you have to be right, just because it’s you. If it’s your thought then it must be right. Because it’s yours. And because you’re a good guy.

 

[TastySuckToy]

*snip*

Your entire reply here is predicated on the premise that guns somehow 'cause' gun deaths. They do not. Human behavior and actions do. Guns are just one of many ways people kill eachother.

It is the height of irrationality to try place blame on a tool rather than the user.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Your entire reply here is predicated on the premise that guns somehow 'cause' gun deaths. They do not. Human behavior and actions do. Guns are just one of many ways people kill eachother.

It is the height of irrationality to try place blame on a tool rather than the user.

And why exactly are we now trying to split the person and the gun? What’s the logic of that?

It’s people with guns. Not the gun by itself. Not the person by themself. People with guns.

You don’t get people-with-guns in India, Europe, Australia, Russia etc etc. And that’s why they don’t have tens of thousands of senseless gun deaths every year.

This is observable reality. You can look at it, if you like.

But it seems like you really don’t want to. And I get it: grappling with that reality is going to be very tricky for you. You’ve always been able to avoid it but right now you’re talking to someone who lives outside your American bubble and who has direct experience of living without guns. And you’re inventing all sorts of nonsense about swimming pools and tools and whatnot to convince him that his gunless world would be safer if it was full of guns. And that nonsense just doesn’t stand up to observable reality.

If we know anything about humans though it’s that irrefutable proof counts for nothing compared to the desire to defend tribal thinking. Your tribal thinking is going to do absolutely everything to stop you changing your mind. Even if it means not looking at the world.

Like I say, it’s funny, then it’s sad, and then you see the immorality of it.

 

[TastySuckToy]

And why exactly are we now trying to split the person and the gun? What’s the logic of that?

If you cannot tell the difference between a person and a gun, that's an issue I cannot help you with.

 

[ChinoMoreno]

And vehicles still kill more people.

Funny how the tool 'made to kill things' cannot keep pace with the tool to 'get you safely from point A to B".

Bro you're not one of the smarter ones here are you?

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

If you cannot tell the difference between a person and a gun, that's an issue I cannot help you with.

One pulls the trigger, the other makes the hole.

I'm not sure what philosophical wizardry you're trying to pull off here.

Listen, here's what you have to do: you have to tell me that there's a place which has as many guns per capita as America but does not suffer the same numbers of senseless guns deaths.

Then we'll get into a discussion about what it is, exactly, about Americans that makes them shoot each other so much. Is it something to do with the resentment and anger that comes with the gross inequality in America, or the stresses of relentless, dog-eat-dog hyper-capitalism, or the long history of bombing other countries you disagree with - that you've been conditioned to react with violence when you don't get your way - or the constant stoking of racial enmity in your media, or the fact that the gun industry literally writes your legislation for your lawmakers? Or maybe it's just because you've seen it in the movies?

And we'll agree that we don't know. It's complicated. That's fair.

And because it's so complicated maybe it would be better to slowly remove as many guns as possible from America. Because you live in a democracy and people in a democracy can arrange themselves however they want. Because they're free. Right? And maybe you'll think it's a good idea to save 30,000 lives each year or whatever it is. Or maybe you won't. Maybe you'll say 'that's just fine'. It's your choice.

 

[TastySuckToy]

because it's so complicated maybe it would be better to slowly remove as many guns as possible from America.

I'm completely in favour of removing many guns from America. Start with completely disarming the government: no government employee, agency, institution or group will be allowed to have or use any guns, or weapons at all.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

One pulls the trigger, the other makes the hole.

I'm not sure what philosophical wizardry you're trying to pull off here.

Listen, here's what you have to do: you have to tell me that there's a place which has as many guns per capita as America but does not suffer the same numbers of senseless guns deaths.

Then we'll get into a discussion about what it is, exactly, about Americans that makes them shoot each other so much. Is it something to do with the resentment and anger that comes with the gross inequality in America, or the stresses of relentless, dog-eat-dog hyper-capitalism, or the long history of bombing other countries you disagree with - that you've been conditioned to react with violence when you don't get your way - or the constant stoking of racial enmity in your media, or the fact that the gun industry literally writes your legislation for your lawmakers? Or maybe it's just because you've seen it in the movies?

And we'll agree that we don't know. It's complicated. That's fair.

And because it's so complicated maybe it would be better to slowly remove as many guns as possible from America. Because you live in a democracy and people in a democracy can arrange themselves however they want. Because they're free. Right? And maybe you'll think it's a good idea to save 30,000 lives each year or whatever it is. Or maybe you won't. Maybe you'll say 'that's just fine'. It's your choice.

Please refrain from quoting nastycuckboi, smart people have that moron on Iggy.