LW Has Turned Into a Misogynist Wasteland

[AwkwardlySet]

"... as someone who has visited all the categories and enthusiastically read tens of thousands of comments (which are often more interesting than the stories themselves.)"

You have made an arbitrary claim that the comments on LW are hateful based on just one story that you read. What evidence do you have to support this claim? (Until a week ago, you did not even know what BTB meant.) I suggest that you check the comments on my or NTH's latest stories and tell us if you found any hateful comments there. I can assure you that neither of us writes misogynistic content.

So after reading tens of thousands of comments ( seems like a weird time investment, but I'll trust you on that) , you managed to judge the intelligence of LW readership (in the first claim you mentioned authors as well) in comparison to the readership of every other category? Wow.

I didn't base my opinion about hateful comments on the one LW story I read. I based it on the claims and opinions of many LW authors who posted such claims in various AH threads. It could be they are all lying, or maybe they all have wrong impressions, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I remember a few months back one of the folks in AH wrote an intentionally bad BTB story; it did about as well as I expected.

The floor for ratings in LW is very low; it's one of the few places I consistently see scores in the 1.X - 2.X range. I just took a look at the new lists in about a dozen categories, and outside of LW, I saw almost no stories below a 3.x score. In LW? There's 12. And before you ask, no, not all of them are cuck or sharing stories, nor are all of the ones in the high 3.x and 4.x BTB ones. There's a melodrama in there, a humorous story, a romance (of sorts) between two cheaters, etc.

In October, I wrote "A Gathering of Trolls" to poke at the incels in LW. It's currently at 2.95 with 158 votes, and over 7.8K views.

And as I said earlier, my Valentine's Day story in LW is at 4.1 with 242 votes and over 31.5K views.

So, I agree with you that some people here are making assumptions about LW readers,and that in general those readers are more discerning that those of other categories. It would seem rather obvious that if someone is looking for a lesbian, gay, or interracial story, they will be more appreciative of those stories they find in those categories. But LW and EC are more catch-all categories, and some of those readers are more likely to react poorly when they read something they aren't expecting (ie, cheating or swinging or humiliation, etc).

IMO, if the story is written well and posted in LW, it stands a better chance of getting up to 4.0 or above, even if it's not what they ALL want in LW (my V-Day story at 4.1 with a swinger husband watching his wife being spit roasted.)

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The ratio of views to clicks increases as the story gets shorter, and this is true for all categories. But this does not contradict my earlier statement. I would rather have a low score with 40 thousand clicks than a high score with 2 thousand clicks. Even if only 5,000 out of 40,000 read my work carefully, it is still better than 1,000 out of 2,000 in a category with less traffic.

Views still equal clicks.

If you're happy with that metric, I won't argue against it.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

So, I agree with you that some people here are making assumptions about LW readers,and that in general those readers are more discerning that those of other categories.

I am curious how this is being assessed.

When I view comments on stories in LW, regardless of the score, I do not see some of the same criticisms from readers that I see in other categories related to grammar, technical skills, changes in tense, and similar critiques on story "quality". I see mostly comments praising or criticizing the characters and their roles in the story. If details in the story are wrong, continuity issues exist, or multiple story elements are omitted, these are seldom mentioned in LW comments, but I do see them in other categories much more often.

How exactly are readers in LW more "discerning" than in other categories with anything other than story content?

 

[Trionyx]

I am sure glad to see we got the LW thread in before the week was over. I thought someone at AH Central had forgotten to launch it. Still looking for this week’s thread on the under 18 rule though.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I want to revert back to one of my frequent points here in these threads, in that context matters over content. I'll add to that the matter of perceptions affecting comprehension.

I read the referenced story. I understood the rage and anger felt by the victimized husband. I also clearly understood his implied threats and his allowing his ex-wife and former best friend to believe he was the one responsible for Gene's torture and physical injuries.

The reality is that he never claimed responsibility for the stated torture directly. He definitely played mind games with his ex-wife and her new husband, but there was no physical abuse directly attributable to the MC.

Come, now. Just because Greg doesn't verbally say "I did those things to Gene" in so many words doesn't mean that's not the the clear intention. The author outright describes Greg's remarks as a "confession" at the end, and the story makes no sense if that's not the intended meaning.

(Moral values aside, I had a hard time getting past the absurdity of the idea that a blind man without a tongue has no way to communicate important information.)

 

[gunhilltrain]

I had an idea to troll the trolls. I have a story called "Adultery" where two people plan and execute an extra-marital affair. I think I'll post it just to fire some LW trolls up.

I have posted there twice because the stories seemed to fit there; I didn't do it to stir them up. (Some of them did get stirred up, of course.) The two stories were related and I eventually did a third that I put into Erotic Couplings. I got passable scores and then I moved on.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I didn't base my opinion about hateful comments on the one LW story I read. I based it on the claims and opinions of many LW authors who posted such claims in various AH threads. It could be they are all lying, or maybe they all have wrong impressions, but somehow I doubt it.

Since people have raised this question, let's examine a selection of the worst comments from the first story I opened up from towards the bottom of the 'new stories' list (House of Glass).

Stupid women thinking they are enlightened. Hoping Sarah sluts around with a bunch of men so the STD's can get her.

Time for Abandonment.....he needs to take his own holiday...nice longggg trip around the world using his daughters college tuition money 1st.

Burn the two cunts

What you forget the rest of the story? Every slut thinks that. Burn her down.

I hope he burns their asses for the worst betrayal possible, but the phrase "I still loved my wife and daughter more than life itself", suggests he's gonna be a cuck. Hopefully there's more to clear things up.

seriously??? you are leaving it there!!!! he needs to rush out and confront them both leave them and burn them! fuck both of them. make em pay!!! please do another part like that soon!!!

Man if this a cuck story say that. He need vengeance.

[...] Please do NOT leave the story as is. Hopefully the main character can turn his life around after getting rid of these 2 $itches. The 2 $itches deserve to be hit by huge load of Karma. Maybe the slut daughter will start charging and go professional (i.e. prostitute) to earn money. Unsure if mommy will go that route as it would risk her normal job.

Great start, but it feels like only the start of the story,

The amount if disrespect that both his wife and daughter have just shown him is nothing to do with sexual repression or the ‘fragile male ego’ it is disrespect pure and simple, they have lied, cheated and should be scared if he ever found out (which he has).

As this is your first submission, I hope that you have a conclusion to the story, it doesn’t need to be a full on BTB, but there does need to be justice. Please don’t leave it, I look forward to the conclusion.

Time to hit the street and don't look back. Those two cunts only love themselves

Good first story. Unfortunately, this is really only the first half and needs to be finished. Since his wife Sarah wants and needs sex with other men, and his daughter not only is aware of it, but completely supports it this family is going to break-up. One option is suicide, but I hope you don't go there. I'd rather he decided to 1) get the best, killer divorce lawyer (maybe a partner in his firm) to represent him and of course hire a PI and wire the house up. Then while they are gathering plenty of evidence, he goes to a gym to lose weight. End game - he's back in shape, has lots of money, and is a hot commodity among the ladies and can pick and choose, and when he does chose his next wife it will be for love (she will be faithful and love sex with him) and there will be a pre-nup. He will have absolutely no contact with his ex-wife, and will disown his daughter. The ex-wife will probably get a good settlement in the divorce, but I hope her reputation is ruined. Maybe she will have a breakdown since she will have to come to terms that her own actions (repeatedly cheating on him) caused him to hate her, and leave her. Most daughters (at least in normal, healthy families) love their fathers. His daughter is going to hate her self for her part in her parent's divorce, and that her father will have absolutely nothing to do with her. He will not be there at her college graduation, nor at her wedding, nor the birth of any children, nor any family events. She may well do something self-destructive - alcohol, drugs, maybe even consider or attempt suicide. Honestly, these 2 $itches need a serious dose of Karma.

Why didn't his wife propose an open marriage? I am more than sure that she will be categorically against her husband fucking other women. Once again, I am convinced that feminism is not about gender equality at all. This is an attempt to legitimize women's privileges in all spheres of life, to put women in a dominant position, to the detriment of men. You know, it's like in the workplace - women are talking only about equal wages, they are not going to do the same physical activity or fulfill the same standards. How can you offer them this? They are women, after all!

He entered the room from behind, slit his daughters throat with a butcher knife, them stabbed his dirty cunt wife over a hundred times, still stabbing when a neighbor walked in, because of his mental state he was put in an institution. He sits at a window and laughs all day long.

 

[TheRedChamber]

And in comparison a set of the worst comments from a recent low ranking Incest/Taboo story. (A Seculed Parking Lot)

This story sucks. Also, proofreading

Between whatever went wrong in your 14th paragraph and the son being a jerk or worse by the end of the first page I stopped reading.

Just awful. I didn't make it very far. "immerge"? And I'm not sure what "faceple" is. And what was up with all the 1's? Not sure if proof-reading would have helped your story.

English is clearly not your first language. why is the mother such a tease and the son such a push over? first time mother said no would have been ok, but then no backing off. I do not understand why someone would want to impregnate their mother or sister..... it ruins a good story no matter how much you love them. when does loaning a car to a friend bring out such a response. why talk about pushing a finger up her ass and then not mention it again?

there are lots of other things wrong but i don't want to take away everyone's comments

 

[gunhilltrain]

Since people have raised this question, let's examine a selection of the worst comments from the first story I opened up from towards the bottom of the 'new stories' list (House of Glass).

Very thorough, and I like the title of the story. I'm sorry that I don't remember, but did you say you had your own experiences in that section? I've only had two stories there, one a sequel to the other.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Very thorough, and I like the title of the story. I'm sorry that I don't remember, but did you say you had your own experiences in that section? I've only had two stories there, one a sequel to the other.

No I haven't yet. I tend to write mostly feelgood stories and neither the two basic plots of 'wife cheats, husband gets revenge, or 'wife cheats, husband loves it' really appeal to my personal plotting style much. That said, I read a lot in this category.

 

[alohadave]

Since people have raised this question, let's examine a selection of the worst comments from the first story I opened up from towards the bottom of the 'new stories' list (House of Glass).

This snippet is hilarious:

I have a couple of other observations. The age of the characters is a bit low. Most teachers require a 4 year college degree and a teaching credential which is another year - therefore 18 + 5 = 23. Law school is 3 years, so for the main character : 18 + 7 = 25. They may have gotten married while still in school, but trying to have a baby during that time would make things almost impossible and delay her graduation by at least 1 year. Therefore they should bot be at least 3 years older than what you propose. Your error hurts the belief the reader has in the story.

 

[Euphony]

This snippet is hilarious:

An orgasm isn't a proper orgasm until the math checks out.

It's science.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I am curious how this is being assessed.

When I view comments on stories in LW, regardless of the score, I do not see some of the same criticisms from readers that I see in other categories related to grammar, technical skills, changes in tense, and similar critiques on story "quality". I see mostly comments praising or criticizing the characters and their roles in the story. If details in the story are wrong, continuity issues exist, or multiple story elements are omitted, these are seldom mentioned in LW comments, but I do see them in other categories much more often.

How exactly are readers in LW more "discerning" than in other categories with anything other than story content?

Okay.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, I know I am NOT a perfect writer, and I KNOW I should not expect a perfect 5 for all ratings!!!!

Now with that in mind, I should (as a beginner writer), HOPE for at least a 3 average) rating! So, for those authors who think they are perfect and deserves 5, I must wonder if they are merely narcissists or if they have some other issues. NOBODY is perfect!

This is why {IMO) those who think the Red-H should be the expected average are mostly narcissists.

 

[tenyari]

There's an old but very true statement that only fools think they are wise, and only idiots think they're the smartest ones in the room.

Otherwise I have no opinions on this topic, I'm too ignorant of what goes on in LW and willing to admit that. But I find some of the posts in this topic... illuminating.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There's an old but very true statement that only fools think they are wise, and only idiots think they're the smartest ones in the room.

That's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. It's actually a specific psychological concept (I forgot the exact meaning), but it's used loosely to describe people who overestimate their intelligence or abilities.

On another note; the title of this thread keeps reminding me of The Who's teenage wasteland lyrics, although the song is for some reason I don't know called "Baba O'Riley." (Someone here must know the origin of the title.) Then there is T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland." I have to look at it again and see if I can relate it to Loving Wives in some manner.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Dunning–Kruger_Effect_01.svg/1200px-Dunning–Kruger_Effect_01.svg.png

Peak of "Mount Stupid," rather amusing.

 

[ElectricBlue]

On another note; the title of this thread keeps reminding me of The Who's teenage wasteland lyrics, although the song is for some reason I don't know called "Baba O'Riley." (Someone here must know the origin of the title.)

The song's title refers to two of Townshend's major inspirations at the time: Meher Baba and Terry Riley - best known as a pioneer of the minimalist school of composition. Influenced by jazz and Indian classical music, Riley 's music became notable for its innovative use of repetition, tape music techniques, and delay systems (wiki).

 

[gunhilltrain]

This may be pretty good, although a bit overstated for a section in an erotic website.

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock

Okay, I'm overdoing it, I know.

 

[gunhilltrain]

The song's title refers to two of Townshend's major inspirations at the time: Meher Baba and Terry Riley - best known as a pioneer of the minimalist school of composition. Influenced by jazz and Indian classical music, Riley 's music became notable for its innovative use of repetition, tape music techniques, and delay systems (wiki).

Thank you, I don't think I've heard that before.

 

[SimonDoom]

The song's title refers to two of Townshend's major inspirations at the time: Meher Baba and Terry Riley - best known as a pioneer of the minimalist school of composition. Influenced by jazz and Indian classical music, Riley 's music became notable for its innovative use of repetition, tape music techniques, and delay systems (wiki).

I just learned something. I'm a long-time Who fan but I didn't know that.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only misogynist wasteland

How the hell is Townshend playing that guitar?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I just learned something. I'm a long-time Who fan but I didn't know that.

Thank you, I don't think I've heard that before.

Wikipedia is your friend. I knew about Meher Baba from the Tommy era, and I'd read Pete's autobiography years ago - he'd have mentioned Riley in it, I'm sure.

 

[ElectricBlue]

How the hell is Townshend playing that guitar?

That's his trademark windmill chording.

His advice, when smashing a guitar, was, "Keep your back straight."

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Okay.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, I know I am NOT a perfect writer, and I KNOW I should not expect a perfect 5 for all ratings!!!!

Now with that in mind, I should (as a beginner writer), HOPE for at least a 3 average) rating! So, for those authors who think they are perfect and deserves 5, I must wonder if they are merely narcissists or if they have some other issues. NOBODY is perfect!

This is why {IMO) those who think the Red-H should be the expected average are mostly narcissists.

The value of ratings as the primary 'quality' metric for a story or an author's skill has long been debated here and I believe most agree that it fails in that regard.

From what I remember of most threads on the subject, the prevailing thought is that the red 'H' is nothing more than a possible marketing advantage to attract readers to one story over another and this is why some authors covet it.

When one of my stories has been posted for a while and received enough measurable feedback, both in score, views, and comments, I try to analyze why it was received by readers the way it was. When I look at my two stories in LW and compare these to my stories posted in other categories, I evaluate all the data points available. With the number of views-per-day, votes-to-views, favorites, and feedback averages being comparable, the major difference remains the rating. The two LW stories averaged a 4.16 rating while all my other stories, in multiple other categories average a 4.76 rating. Why?

In both cases, the feedback from readers made it clear (to me at least) that a number of readers simply "didn't get it", with "IT" being whatever nuance the story contained that tested the comprehension and intelligence of the reader. My same style of story-telling is understood and appreciated in other categories, which leads me to ask again, how is the belief that LW readers are "more discerning" arrived at?

I might agree with them being more "discriminating" in how they view subject matter within a particular story and certainly more willing to verbalize their judgment, but that doesn't make them better judges, and I believe the overall data deviations for stories in that category versus other bears that out.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Wikipedia is your friend. I knew about Meher Baba from the Tommy era, and I'd read Pete's autobiography years ago - he'd have mentioned Riley in it, I'm sure.

Literotica is your friend too. I can find some answers here that I would never find on Wikipedia.