Sex scenes too long/detailed?

[Djmac1031]

And they aren't good enough writers to do it without enlisting a committee of strangers?

So instead of offering helpful advice to those asking, you'd rather question their skill set and motives.

Sorry we're not all the prolific genius you are, apparently.

 

[alohadave]

Keith is cranky today.

 

[Djmac1031]

What are you avoiding facing? This is the thoughts and prayers approach to issues, isn't it? "Hey, look over there, no, not here, over there."

Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?

 

[KeithD]

Keith is cranky today.

Yep. decided to check the Lit. discussion board before launching in to today's writing. Found the usual.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

I do too. I had of course considered actually writing the scene. The characters had been apart for a few weeks, so it was a reconnection between them.

BUT my series is, mostly, E/V related, and as such I felt the previous scene describing the shared masturbation experience between Tom and her friend Trish was the heart of that chapter.

To get the discussion back to a better place, AHEM, sometimes you don’t need a sex scene and can end it early, especially in Voyeur/Exhibitionism. People are looking in, might only get a glimpse of something, it’s fine.

Also I just thought back but in part 3 of ATDAH I stopped a scene just before full sex started. There’s no right of wrong here and that I think is it’s big plus. I’m not one to shit in people who are commercially successful but here I think we get more leeway to experiment and be creative than others do in that sector.

Sometimes not seeing behind the door is right, other times the viewing is the story.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Sex scenes too long/detailed?​

I do two types of sex scene:

1. Long and detailed enough to appear in the How to… section
2. Impressionistic and let’s get back to the story

The balance is heavily towards 1. I figure I’m writing porn and I do think about the reader cock in hand or fingers inside panties from time to time.

Hell, I’m the one with the fingers in my panties often when writing.

I don’t think much about the audience beyond reminding myself that porn normally works better with sex scenes every now and again.

Em

 

[Seadog777]

Since you asked, my personal opinion is that sex scenes CAN go for too long in a story.
As a reader, I don't need a play by play of every single thrust.

I've had first drafts where a scene would've been 2 entire Lit pages.
Which is way way too long, IMO.

I will finish by saying to you, what I say to everyone.

Write the story for yourself.
If you like it, then that's all that matters.

SD

 

[Emilymcplugger]

I do two types of sex scene:

1. Long and detailed enough to appear in the How to… section
2. Impressionistic and let’s get back to the story

The balance is heavily towards 1. I figure I’m writing porn and I do think about the reader cock in hand or fingers inside panties from time to time.

Hell, I’m the one with the fingers in my panties often when writing.

I don’t think much about the audience beyond reminding myself that porn normally works better with sex scenes every now and again.

Em

Depends on the narrative.

I was looking over some of things I’ve included and stuff I’ve not bothered with. After 3 sex rooms in part 4 of ATDAH I then had them visit the utility room after encountering a couple in a hallway.

Hardly bodice-ripping stuff at the end but it served the story. A sex scene should be sufficiently entertaining to keep you turned on for awhile, that’s my view. How long that is, well, that’s up to the reader and the writer.

 

[djrip]

Yep. decided to check the Lit. discussion board before launching in to today's writing. Found the usual.

I think it makes a lot of sense for writers on a writing discussion board to discuss... writing. Like, what works, what doesn't work well, in various people's opinion. That's kind of what happens in a workshop. It doesn't mean the participants in the workshop need to write by committee; it means they are learning from each other's experiences and perspectives.

Personally I lean toward 50% or more of the story being sex. It's the point of the story for me. However, reading Ronde's post above,

There are really two types of stories on Literotica, what I'll call "erotica" and what I'll call "porn". The definitions below are my definitions and many people here will undoubtedly have different definitions. There is nothing wrong with either erotica or porn. The difference is in the goal of the writer when writing the story.

Erotica is a story where characters are introduced and where their relationship is explored over some period of time. Sex can almost be incidental to the story, so there need be only enough detail in the sex scene(s) to give the reader a general picture of what is going on. The primary goal of a writer of erotica is not necessarily to arouse the reader, though that can be the end result. The primary goal is to pull the reader into an understanding of the characters and why they do what they do. Any sex in the story will seem to be the natural outcome of the personalities, actions and thoughts of the characters. For readers who like this type of story, the lack of detail in the sex scene isn't a problem. These readers tend to prefer filling in the missing details by themselves. In effect, erotica is fairly detailed up to the point of the characters falling into bed, with the sex scene being more sketch than 3-D movie. For an example, think the book or the movie, "Lady Chatterly's Lover" by D.H. Lawrence. Other examples will be harder to find today, but most of the stories in the men's magazines of the 50's and 60's like "Argosy" and "Adam" were written in this way. Today, those stories might be called "soft porn". I'm not comparing my work to those, but this is how I usually write and my readers don't seem to have a problem filling in their own details.

Porn is a story where the goal of the writer is to arouse the reader and in the extreme, the characters and their relationship is incidental to the story. The sex is described in infinitesimal detail to paint the picture the author wants the reader to see. These stories are more a collection of vignettes than an actual story with the sex seeming to just start with no reason for happening other than that it does. Think nearly any porn film made since about 2000. Some people call this type of story a "stroke story", because the intent of the reader is to read enough detail he or she doesn't have to imagine much in order to bring things to a conclusion. Those readers want as much detail as the author can supply. In my way of thinking, porn is an exaggerated exaggeration of over-exaggerated and fake sex, sometimes to the point that it’s comical and I find it very difficult to write like that.

Sex scenes can become difficult to write because there are a limited number of ways in which people do the dirty deed and things can become repetitive very quickly. This is a problem that I have when writing. It helps to read what you've written and then ask yourself if it's really necessary to have the character's vocalize everything they're experiencing. I don't know how much your work emphasizes the sizes of he relevant body parts, but usually it's enough for most readers to say "long and thick" instead of launching into an anatomical description that burns up a hundred or so words.

Finding the balance depends upon where you fall in your goals as a writer. There is a midpoint between erotica and porn where you'll feel comfortable. You just have to think more about the characters and less about the sex.

I liked the distinction being made here, but that last line is critical. I think a lot of stories are in between erotica and porn as described here. I know that I try to describe sex thoroughly, with an increasing tempo as it draws toward the story's climax, an increasing barrage of more and more intensely phrased images, with the intent of arousing the reader. That's what I look for in a story, that's what I try to do. But I don't feel that this necessarily means that the sex has to just start with no reason for happening. I mean I may or may not have succeeded in creating a believable reason but the intent is there to do so. And it doesn't necessarily have to be "fake sex;" I try to write extreme sex, athletic sex, with a variety of things going on, with multiple people, but I imagine real things I've done (with just one person at a time), and apply them to what the characters are doing; I try to ground it in realistic sensations and desires; I try to write a scene I would actually enjoy doing, if I had the implausible stamina and circumstances of my characters.

As far as repetition, I try to forget about my other stories when working on the one I'm working on currently, and fully immerse myself in just that one. That story is the world. I write what feels right for the characters, delving deeply into the details of their encounter, and let them do what's right for them in their scene. Looking back afterward, there are similar things that crop up in several stories, and that's ok. There are also differences, but I'm not thinking, oh, I can't have this, it's too similar to that... I don't want to be limited within one story by what I've done elsewhere.

 

[Djmac1031]

I say this in no way attempting to insult any authors. In fact, I mean it as a compliment.

But lately I often find myself breezing through a sex scene to find out what's gonna happen AFTER the sex.

Which means I'm invested in the story and characters, just not really in a SEXY mood and sometimes I'm like "okay, I get it. They fucked. Now what?"

Readers read for different reasons. And our moods vary.

If we're in the mood to get off, we're gonna devour every word of that sex scene.

If we're in the mood to just read a good story, we might skip past a sex scene, especially if it goes on forever.

So how, as writers, can we predict a readers behavior and mood?

We can't. And so we write the best we can and let the chips fall where they will.

 

[Euphony]

I say this in no way attempting to insult any authors. In fact, I mean it as a compliment.

But lately I often find myself breezing through a sex scene to find out what's gonna happen AFTER the sex.

Which means I'm invested in the story and characters, just not really in a SEXY mood and sometimes I'm like "okay, I get it. They fucked. Now what?"

Readers read for different reasons. And our moods vary.

If we're in the mood to get off, we're gonna devour every word of that sex scene.

If we're in the mood to just read a good story, we might skip past a sex scene, especially if it goes on forever.

So how, as writers, can we predict a readers behavior and mood?

We can't. And so we write the best we can and let the chips fall where they will.

Closest we can get to meeting readers needs is meeting characters needs and/or motivations.

I struggle to think of any stories that wouldn't benefit from honest characters so readers are always on the lookout for just that.

I'm down for sexless protags so long as the sexless is genuine to the characters involved.

Now, being at posted at Lit, author's have a leeway but there is an ultimate expectation for a coupling in the manner suggested by the category. (outside of non-erotic) Sex should never be forced into the narrative but coupling denial for the sake of it (only to troll the readers) happens here and I take the readers side.

To the OP's question.

We are mired in the eternal consideration of what is/isn't "enough." It helps me to look at sex scenes as I do experiences. When I'm with people I like, I will do all manner of activities well beyond my usual interest level. (pickleball anyone?) Good experiences help you lose track of time.

Write characters people can love and you don't have to dial in the sex to an exacting degree.

Help readers lose track of time. Admittedly easier said than done but going in with that mindset bears more fruit than trying to find a formula for the perfect sex scene (length, activities, vocal vs. reflective, etc.) able to support the rest of the narrative.

Like good sex, good written sex comes naturally from people well suited to each other enough to be having it.

 

[Djmac1031]

Like good sex, good written sex comes naturally from people well suited to each other enough to be having it.

Bingo. To me, anyway, characters matter.

If I don't care about them, I don't care how incredibly complex the sex scene is.

If I do care about them, I can be happy with a simple sex scene.

 

[Euphony]

Bingo. To me, anyway, characters matter.

If I don't care about them, I don't care how incredibly complex the sex scene is.

If I do care about them, I can be happy with a simple sex scene.

My next peak to reach is writing (supported by reason) bad sex between characters that they have to work through.

I imagine iffy reception b/c to support the continued trying to work through sexual incompatibilities, there's a lot of narrative run up before the actual sex, which is, unsatisfying.

Readership is pretty entrenched in the notion sex is often the resolution to a main conflict, or at the very least a significant reward for seeing these characters though to that point.

Workshopping these concepts has been a roller coaster but the good is so far outweighing the struggles.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

My next peak to reach is writing (supported by reason) bad sex between characters that they have to work through.

I imagine iffy reception b/c to support the continued trying to work through sexual incompatibilities, there's a lot of narrative run up before the actual sex, which is, unsatisfying.

Readership is pretty entrenched in the notion sex is often the resolution to a main conflict, or at the very least a significant reward for seeing these characters though to that point.

Workshopping these concepts has been a roller coaster but the good is so far outweighing the struggles.

To me the solution would be start with the bad sex, this will show the incompatibility off the bat, gets some sex out of the way and then you can build to better from there.

What do you think?

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Please don't interpret this to be some sort of criticism of your or anyone else's work, because it's not. I'm just stating what I've found to be true over several years of writing.

There are really two types of stories on Literotica, what I'll call "erotica" and what I'll call "porn". The definitions below are my definitions and many people here will undoubtedly have different definitions. There is nothing wrong with either erotica or porn. The difference is in the goal of the writer when writing the story.

Erotica is a story where characters are introduced and where their relationship is explored over some period of time. Sex can almost be incidental to the story, so there need be only enough detail in the sex scene(s) to give the reader a general picture of what is going on. The primary goal of a writer of erotica is not necessarily to arouse the reader, though that can be the end result. The primary goal is to pull the reader into an understanding of the characters and why they do what they do. Any sex in the story will seem to be the natural outcome of the personalities, actions and thoughts of the characters. For readers who like this type of story, the lack of detail in the sex scene isn't a problem. These readers tend to prefer filling in the missing details by themselves. In effect, erotica is fairly detailed up to the point of the characters falling into bed, with the sex scene being more sketch than 3-D movie. For an example, think the book or the movie, "Lady Chatterly's Lover" by D.H. Lawrence. Other examples will be harder to find today, but most of the stories in the men's magazines of the 50's and 60's like "Argosy" and "Adam" were written in this way. Today, those stories might be called "soft porn". I'm not comparing my work to those, but this is how I usually write and my readers don't seem to have a problem filling in their own details.

Porn is a story where the goal of the writer is to arouse the reader and in the extreme, the characters and their relationship is incidental to the story. The sex is described in infinitesimal detail to paint the picture the author wants the reader to see. These stories are more a collection of vignettes than an actual story with the sex seeming to just start with no reason for happening other than that it does. Think nearly any porn film made since about 2000. Some people call this type of story a "stroke story", because the intent of the reader is to read enough detail he or she doesn't have to imagine much in order to bring things to a conclusion. Those readers want as much detail as the author can supply. In my way of thinking, porn is an exaggerated exaggeration of over-exaggerated and fake sex, sometimes to the point that it’s comical and I find it very difficult to write like that.

Sex scenes can become difficult to write because there are a limited number of ways in which people do the dirty deed and things can become repetitive very quickly. This is a problem that I have when writing. It helps to read what you've written and then ask yourself if it's really necessary to have the character's vocalize everything they're experiencing. I don't know how much your work emphasizes the sizes of he relevant body parts, but usually it's enough for most readers to say "long and thick" instead of launching into an anatomical description that burns up a hundred or so words.

Finding the balance depends upon where you fall in your goals as a writer. There is a midpoint between erotica and porn where you'll feel comfortable. You just have to think more about the characters and less about the sex.

I tend to agree with most of this.

Implied sexual activity (or none at all) works well for a lot of the stories on this site, even some of the highest rated ones in categories such as LW.

If you feel the need for the details to be thoroughly described in a story, do just that. Readers will just skip over what they don't want to read.

 

[Euphony]

To me the solution would be start with the bad sex, this will show the incompatibility off the bat, gets some sex out of the way and then you can build to better from there.

What do you think?

I played with that but, and this is maybe my own foolish willfulness, it felt too pandering to a specific audience for me.

Sex (at least between my typical characters) is a wrapped Christmas present: counting down the days and the not knowing how well the built up experience may go is my own creative necessity.

I sometimes think of reader's expectations as husbands whose wives buy their own presents then essentially "bill" their husbands for them. It's a small relationship negotiation and maybe for the best, but something feels lost to me and I would want to at least be sure it's a true incompatibility (as all relationships have) and not my own/husband's disinterest in trying.

The best presents aren't necessarily the ones you immediately wanted but have a way of becoming far more enriching.

That's what I'm shooting for with the sexual incompatibility angle. I know it's going to take serious effort to make characters lovable enough for readers to work through that with when the norm is escapism level sex is what many are looking for/expecting for investing their time here.

 

[tenyari]

Please don't interpret this to be some sort of criticism of your or anyone else's work, because it's not. I'm just stating what I've found to be true over several years of writing.

There are really two types of stories on Literotica, what I'll call "erotica" and what I'll call "porn". The definitions below are my definitions and many people here will undoubtedly have different definitions. There is nothing wrong with either erotica or porn. The difference is in the goal of the writer when writing the story.

Back in the Usenet / ASSTR days the category for the second style of story that focused on the sex scenes was known as a 'Stroke' story as they were presumed to be read one-handed...

I've never been able to write in that style. I struggle with the sex scenes. Both as a writer and a reader. I like characterization, scene, plot, and emotion. But action and sex scenes I have to struggle through.

Stroke stories tend to be a lot shorter too. Usually a couple minutes to read. When I write, by about 20,000 words I'm just starting to get past the introduction.

 

[AllenWoody]

This thread has been (mostly) helpful, with some good insights.

When I first started writing five years ago I went heavy on sex, although even then I believe I did a respectable job of establishing character, motive, and scene. I breezed through the sex scenes as swiftly as the rest of those prose. I believe that I just had a bunch of pent-up scenes in my head that I wanted to get on paper. But more recently, sex has become the most difficult part of writing. I guess I'm just trying to nudge the battleship which is my writing style in the direction of more compact scenes. Next time I write a novel in installments I don't want it to take eighteen months.

Thanks again, AW

 

[Carnevil9]

I think the OP is proposing a false dichotomy. Sure, some parts of a story can be pure sex, and other parts can be pure "other" (character development, plot, etc.). But there is no reason both can't be happening at the same time. A character can learn a lot about themselves during sexual activity. And sex can be a plot point that helps to drive the narrative. I try to intertwine them as much as possible, so the story doesn't just ping-pong back and forth between non-sexual activities and raw, irrelevant fucking.

 

[Trionyx]

But lately I often find myself breezing through a sex scene to find out what's gonna happen AFTER the sex.

 

[tenyari]

But lately I often find myself breezing through a sex scene to find out what's gonna happen AFTER the sex.

It's not just me then.

I always feel guilty on an erotica site when I skip past all the ugh, ooos, ahs, and things people are licking or inserting into places to get back to the good stuff: the characters and plot.

 

[Djmac1031]

It's not just me then.

I always feel guilty on an erotica site when I skip past all the ugh, ooos, ahs, and things people are licking or inserting into places to get back to the good stuff: the characters and plot.

Maybe it's because as authors we spend too much time WRITING sex scenes to wanna read them lol.

Again, just to be VERY clear; it's not my intent to slam anyone for their sex scenes.

And sometimes I do read them. And there are some great ones that get me there.

It really depends on the story and my mood at the moment.

 

[yukonnights]

Hello all,

Let me open this question by acknowledging there is no definitive answer here, no objective criteria to follow. That said, I'm still interested in hearing your opinions.

I've found that the sex scenes in my stories seem to dwarf the rest of the narrative. Even though I create what I believe is a balanced story with plenty of character development, setting, back story, etc., the sex portion of the story still ends up being as much as half of the prose. The reason for this is that I seem to gravitate toward quite detailed descriptions - each movement of the characters, what they see, say, feel, do, etc.

First let me say that based on your output and overall very high reader ratings of your stories — I'm somewhat hesitant to offer advice. That said, I will make note of your words above in bold and point directly at the inclusion of the word "feel". Feel can imply two different things; One is physical feelings and the other is emotional feelings.

I try to write in a way that includes both. Human intimacy is filled with both and each can help move a story forward while also offering a break that removes the repetitious "porn scene" flavor from the intimate part of a story. IMO, the intimate interior dialogue is more important than the physical detailed descriptions because most all humans will experience unique thoughts/feelings which offers the author a lot of options in making a character more interesting and complex.

 

[ronde]

Back in the Usenet / ASSTR days the category for the second style of story that focused on the sex scenes was known as a 'Stroke' story as they were presumed to be read one-handed...

I've never been able to write in that style. I struggle with the sex scenes. Both as a writer and a reader. I like characterization, scene, plot, and emotion. But action and sex scenes I have to struggle through.

Stroke stories tend to be a lot shorter too. Usually a couple minutes to read. When I write, by about 20,000 words I'm just starting to get past the introduction.

I remember discussing on this same forum years ago about if those stories were also written one-handed.

 

[Rob_Royale]

It's not the length of the scene that makes me weary it's often the level of detail. I don't need every detail of her labia nor every vein in his dick described. I like "He had a beautiful cock" or "she had lovely pink pussy lips." That let's me just fill in the blank with whatever cock or pussy I find beautiful or lovely, and move on. Leave it for the readers imagination.