Sex scenes too long/detailed?

[AllenWoody]

Hello all,

Let me open this question by acknowledging there is no definitive answer here, no objective criteria to follow. That said, I'm still interested in hearing your opinions.

I've found that the sex scenes in my stories seem to dwarf the rest of the narrative. Even though I create what I believe is a balanced story with plenty of character development, setting, back story, etc., the sex portion of the story still ends up being as much as half of the prose. The reason for this is that I seem to gravitate toward quite detailed descriptions - each movement of the characters, what they see, say, feel, do, etc. Consider for example my most recent installment, chapter three of Redemption. In Google Docs it's a 29 page story. The main sex scene starts on page 16 and ends on page 28. So not quite half of the story, but close, especially considering that there is an appetizer-grade sex scene earlier in the narrative.

One of the reasons I'm asking this question now is that I feel I'm starting to suffer for it. Increasingly I can zip through most of the story then I drag to a near halt trying to write the sex scene. I'm usually proud of what I end up producing, but it drags at me. And in longer, multi-chapter stories it can really become a problem. Not every chapter needs a lengthy sex scene, but I do want to keep the chapter spicy.

So let me (finally) break the question into two parts:
1) If you have ever suffered from this problem, how do you deal with it?
2) Can you point me to examples of writers/stories where you think the sex/story balance is well managed?

Thank you,

AW

 

[AllenWoody]

I should clarify that I did read the thread 'story or sex' started by Zenith in February of this year, and found it helpful. My question is intended to focus on how to write shorter sex scenes, not so much 'how much is too much?'.

 

[SirBurnInside]

My sex scenes are exactly the same as yours, much to the delight or exasperation of my readers, depending on who you asked on the subject.

For me, I really don't think it's a problem nor for I worry about it. I write how I like to and how I do best, which is trying to keep the story flowing and relevant but my main pleasure as a writer comes from knowing that my audience is here to read erotica and thus I try to be as descriptive as possible when the action actually begins.

Is it the best way to construct a story? Maybe not
Is it my way? Yes
Is it appreciated? By a certain audience it most certainly is

I think what you need to do is not worry so much and just focus on what YOU think makes your story as good as it can be, don't worry about others, those who like your stuff will tell you so and appreciate it

 

[RejectReality]

That's my wheelhouse in this name. Works okay for me.

If it's hampering your writing, then put some obstacles in the way that limit things somehow. Have the narrative limit the amount of time they have. Put them in a weird place that limits positions and comfort. Anything that keeps it from turning into a marathon.

It may very well be that the problem is feeling that you're stuck in a rut, repeating the same scenes over and over again. Forcing yourself out of the box through the narrative may be what you need. Whenever I'm feeling as if I'm stuck in a rut, I write something that's purposely limited by the narrative to a single sex act. A blowjob. A handjob. A finger-bang. I don't cut down on any of the detail, but the scene is naturally shorter. Concentrating on a singular act can also inspire little flourishes that you can use to mix up longer scenes, breaking that feeling of repeatedly plowing the same trench.

 

[ronde]

Please don't interpret this to be some sort of criticism of your or anyone else's work, because it's not. I'm just stating what I've found to be true over several years of writing.

There are really two types of stories on Literotica, what I'll call "erotica" and what I'll call "porn". The definitions below are my definitions and many people here will undoubtedly have different definitions. There is nothing wrong with either erotica or porn. The difference is in the goal of the writer when writing the story.

Erotica is a story where characters are introduced and where their relationship is explored over some period of time. Sex can almost be incidental to the story, so there need be only enough detail in the sex scene(s) to give the reader a general picture of what is going on. The primary goal of a writer of erotica is not necessarily to arouse the reader, though that can be the end result. The primary goal is to pull the reader into an understanding of the characters and why they do what they do. Any sex in the story will seem to be the natural outcome of the personalities, actions and thoughts of the characters. For readers who like this type of story, the lack of detail in the sex scene isn't a problem. These readers tend to prefer filling in the missing details by themselves. In effect, erotica is fairly detailed up to the point of the characters falling into bed, with the sex scene being more sketch than 3-D movie. For an example, think the book or the movie, "Lady Chatterly's Lover" by D.H. Lawrence. Other examples will be harder to find today, but most of the stories in the men's magazines of the 50's and 60's like "Argosy" and "Adam" were written in this way. Today, those stories might be called "soft porn". I'm not comparing my work to those, but this is how I usually write and my readers don't seem to have a problem filling in their own details.

Porn is a story where the goal of the writer is to arouse the reader and in the extreme, the characters and their relationship is incidental to the story. The sex is described in infinitesimal detail to paint the picture the author wants the reader to see. These stories are more a collection of vignettes than an actual story with the sex seeming to just start with no reason for happening other than that it does. Think nearly any porn film made since about 2000. Some people call this type of story a "stroke story", because the intent of the reader is to read enough detail he or she doesn't have to imagine much in order to bring things to a conclusion. Those readers want as much detail as the author can supply. In my way of thinking, porn is an exaggerated exaggeration of over-exaggerated and fake sex, sometimes to the point that it’s comical and I find it very difficult to write like that.

Sex scenes can become difficult to write because there are a limited number of ways in which people do the dirty deed and things can become repetitive very quickly. This is a problem that I have when writing. It helps to read what you've written and then ask yourself if it's really necessary to have the character's vocalize everything they're experiencing. I don't know how much your work emphasizes the sizes of he relevant body parts, but usually it's enough for most readers to say "long and thick" instead of launching into an anatomical description that burns up a hundred or so words.

Finding the balance depends upon where you fall in your goals as a writer. There is a midpoint between erotica and porn where you'll feel comfortable. You just have to think more about the characters and less about the sex.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've never received criticism for writing a sex scene that's too long. I HAVE received criticism on several occasions for writing a sex scene that's too short. As long as it's well done, I don't think there's any limit on how long it can be.

 

[AllenWoody]

That's my wheelhouse in this name. Works okay for me.

If it's hampering your writing, then put some obstacles in the way that limit things somehow. Have the narrative limit the amount of time they have. Put them in a weird place that limits positions and comfort. Anything that keeps it from turning into a marathon.

It may very well be that the problem is feeling that you're stuck in a rut, repeating the same scenes over and over again. Forcing yourself out of the box through the narrative may be what you need. Whenever I'm feeling as if I'm stuck in a rut, I write something that's purposely limited by the narrative to a single sex act. A blowjob. A handjob. A finger-bang. I don't cut down on any of the detail, but the scene is naturally shorter. Concentrating on a singular act can also inspire little flourishes that you can use to mix up longer scenes, breaking that feeling of repeatedly plowing the same trench.

This is a great suggestion. I have introduced restraints like that a few times, but usually for what I consider 'appetizers'. I need to do it more. Not becoming a marathon is exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[AllenWoody]

Please don't interpret this to be some sort of criticism of your or anyone else's work, because it's not. I'm just stating what I've found to be true over several years of writing.

There are really two types of stories on Literotica, what I'll call "erotica" and what I'll call "porn". The definitions below are my definitions and many people here will undoubtedly have different definitions. There is nothing wrong with either erotica or porn. The difference is in the goal of the writer when writing the story.

Erotica is a story where characters are introduced and where their relationship is explored over some period of time. Sex can almost be incidental to the story, so there need be only enough detail in the sex scene(s) to give the reader a general picture of what is going on. The primary goal of a writer of erotica is not necessarily to arouse the reader, though that can be the end result. The primary goal is to pull the reader into an understanding of the characters and why they do what they do. Any sex in the story will seem to be the natural outcome of the personalities, actions and thoughts of the characters. For readers who like this type of story, the lack of detail in the sex scene isn't a problem. These readers tend to prefer filling in the missing details by themselves. In effect, erotica is fairly detailed up to the point of the characters falling into bed, with the sex scene being more sketch than 3-D movie. For an example, think the book or the movie, "Lady Chatterly's Lover" by D.H. Lawrence. Other examples will be harder to find today, but most of the stories in the men's magazines of the 50's and 60's like "Argosy" and "Adam" were written in this way. Today, those stories might be called "soft porn". I'm not comparing my work to those, but this is how I usually write and my readers don't seem to have a problem filling in their own details.

Porn is a story where the goal of the writer is to arouse the reader and in the extreme, the characters and their relationship is incidental to the story. The sex is described in infinitesimal detail to paint the picture the author wants the reader to see. These stories are more a collection of vignettes than an actual story with the sex seeming to just start with no reason for happening other than that it does. Think nearly any porn film made since about 2000. Some people call this type of story a "stroke story", because the intent of the reader is to read enough detail he or she doesn't have to imagine much in order to bring things to a conclusion. Those readers want as much detail as the author can supply. In my way of thinking, porn is an exaggerated exaggeration of over-exaggerated and fake sex, sometimes to the point that it’s comical and I find it very difficult to write like that.

Sex scenes can become difficult to write because there are a limited number of ways in which people do the dirty deed and things can become repetitive very quickly. This is a problem that I have when writing. It helps to read what you've written and then ask yourself if it's really necessary to have the character's vocalize everything they're experiencing. I don't know how much your work emphasizes the sizes of he relevant body parts, but usually it's enough for most readers to say "long and thick" instead of launching into an anatomical description that burns up a hundred or so words.

Finding the balance depends upon where you fall in your goals as a writer. There is a midpoint between erotica and porn where you'll feel comfortable. You just have to think more about the characters and less about the sex.

Thank you for this, and I definitely don't take it as criticism. My 'issue' isn't that I am extreme in my cataloging of the human body. I don't describe her "Perfect double-D breasts" or his "pulsating nine-inch cock". I settle for full, heavy, thick, slim, buoyant, etc. My challenge is more that I find myself bogged down in every shift of someone's body, meaningful glances exchanged, inner dialog, degree of arousal, sensation, etc. It's definitely closer to your porn definition than erotica, and I'm fine with that.

I'm getting ready to start another novel-length work. When I wrote Lost Colony I went a month at a time between chapters, in large part because I slowed down during the sex scenes. Again, I'm proud of what I wrote, it just really slowed me down. This time I'd like to mix-in shorter/light scenes, both so I can speed my writing, but also, possibly, be prepared to remove those scenes in order to make a non-erotica novel.

AW

 

[alohadave]

When I come across a story that has a sex scene that is dragging on, I start skipping through it. There is a balance between excruciating detail and saying "then they humped".

 

[Emilymcplugger]

Hello all,

Let me open this question by acknowledging there is no definitive answer here, no objective criteria to follow. That said, I'm still interested in hearing your opinions.

I've found that the sex scenes in my stories seem to dwarf the rest of the narrative. Even though I create what I believe is a balanced story with plenty of character development, setting, back story, etc., the sex portion of the story still ends up being as much as half of the prose. The reason for this is that I seem to gravitate toward quite detailed descriptions - each movement of the characters, what they see, say, feel, do, etc. Consider for example my most recent installment, chapter three of Redemption. In Google Docs it's a 29 page story. The main sex scene starts on page 16 and ends on page 28. So not quite half of the story, but close, especially considering that there is an appetizer-grade sex scene earlier in the narrative.

One of the reasons I'm asking this question now is that I feel I'm starting to suffer for it. Increasingly I can zip through most of the story then I drag to a near halt trying to write the sex scene. I'm usually proud of what I end up producing, but it drags at me. And in longer, multi-chapter stories it can really become a problem. Not every chapter needs a lengthy sex scene, but I do want to keep the chapter spicy.

So let me (finally) break the question into two parts:
1) If you have ever suffered from this problem, how do you deal with it?
2) Can you point me to examples of writers/stories where you think the sex/story balance is well managed?

Thank you,

AW

Funnily enough I used this reply in a different thread earlier but here it seems to apply as well.

I’m reminded of what George Hamilton said as Count Dracula in LOVE AT FIRST BITE.

“Never a quickie, always a longy”

In ALL THE DEVILS ARE HERE part 5 the sex scene starts at the bottom of page 1 and finishes halfway down page 7 of an 8 page chapter. If you’re dealing with multiple partners, multiple issues, juggling multiple scenarios then you’re gonna take longer to deal with things.

Also the stories I read that I enjoy have that emotional core to them also so knowing the characters feelings, emotional state, concerns is vital. If people are complaining it’s an issue, but if your followers love this about your stories crack on.

 

[MrPixel]

If you’re dealing with multiple partners, multiple issues, juggling multiple scenarios then you’re gonna take longer to deal with things.

Precisely. I frequently have scenes with 10-12 participants. It gets interesting/complicated.

Conversely, when it's just two or three, the actual act(s) are sometimes inferred. It's all about the story flow.

 

[Djmac1031]

Not gonna debate the length thing for readers. Some like longer scenes, some don't.

What you're talking about is writing them and trying to keep it fresh EVERY story, and on that, I can relate.

Keep in mind this: not every reader reads ALL your stories, so if you wind up writing similar scenes in various stories, most won't notice.

Of course, most writers don't enjoy repeating themselves.

My only real answer is; if it feels too long to YOU, trim it.

Do they HAVE to do every variation of foreplay before getting down to the main event? Does it NEED multiple positions? Multiple orgasms?

While our stories are of course fantasies, that doesn't mean they have to be porn videos either. Most actual human beings simply don't fuck THAT long lol.

Have your characters switch things up. Maybe instead of a full on sex scene, they just use hands and mouths, or maybe they gotta bang out a quickie because they're on a time limit before they have to be somewhere or someone comes home.

There have been a few times, depending on what I feel my story calls for, where I write a lot of build up and delve into the foreplay, then breeze past the rest of the sex with a few simple sentences. "Their love making was passionate and powerful, continuing throughout the night, and when they finally finished it left both of them spent, exhausted, but satisfied. "

That's a little too simplistic but you get the point.

If you've built up and fleshed out your characters and story enough that readers connect with it, they'll be happy these people are finally being intimate. How much of that intimacy they need full details on is really up to YOU, not them.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

Precisely. I frequently have scenes with 10-12 participants. It gets interesting/complicated.

Conversely, when it's just two or three, the actual act(s) are sometimes inferred. It's all about the story flow.

Exactly.

I have no huge orgies in HOT AND FUZZY (so far) but the biggest scene in the upcoming part 4 takes up a huge amount of words as the scene builds and builds and builds, even though it’s only 4 people (only 4?!)

There are people who read literotic that just want a quick thrill, others who crave compelling characters, whom (whom?) are thrust into extraordinary sexual adventures and escapades. In Part 5 of ATDAH I had to keep a separate sheet of the different people partaking in forfeits and the combinations of people AND the escalation of the forfeits on the sex game.

Hopefully as mind-boggling as it was for me hopefully it boggled something else for my audience.

 

[AllenWoody]

Not gonna debate the length thing for readers. Some like longer scenes, some don't.

What you're talking about is writing them and trying to keep it fresh EVERY story, and on that, I can relate.

Keep in mind this: not every reader reads ALL your stories, so if you wind up writing similar scenes in various stories, most won't notice.

Of course, most writers don't enjoy repeating themselves.

My only real answer is; if it feels too long to YOU, trim it.

Do they HAVE to do every variation of foreplay before getting down to the main event? Does it NEED multiple positions? Multiple orgasms?

While our stories are of course fantasies, that doesn't mean they have to be porn videos either. Most actual human beings simply don't fuck THAT long lol.

Have your characters switch things up. Maybe instead of a full on sex scene, they just use hands and mouths, or maybe they gotta bang out a quickie because they're on a time limit before they have to be somewhere or someone comes home.

There have been a few times, depending on what I feel my story calls for, where I write a lot of build up and delve into the foreplay, then breeze past the rest of the sex with a few simple sentences. "Their love making was passionate and powerful, continuing throughout the night, and when they finally finished it left both of them spent, exhausted, but satisfied. "

That's a little too simplistic but you get the point.

If you've built up and fleshed out your characters and story enough that readers connect with it, they'll be happy these people are finally being intimate. How much of that intimacy they need full details on is really up to YOU, not them.

Right. Put in enough action to satisfy the reader without covering every detail.

Thanks!

 

[Voboy]

I try to write stories that feature graphic sex. I usually try not to write sex scenes wrapped in plot. That, to me, is a key difference in mindset.

My scenes usually run around 2-4k words. I've noticed over the years that their length has fallen a bit since my earliest stories.

In stories I enjoy reading, an interminable sex scene (say, 5k words or over) is just that: interminable. Reading it becomes a chore after awhile. I VASTLY prefer stories that feature shorter precursor scenes, which lead up to something longer as a climax (meant both ways).

Total sex content of an average Voboy story? Maybe 10k words, spread throughout the piece. So less than 50%; most of my stories are over 20k words, some by quite a bit.

 

[Djmac1031]

My series The Jenna Arrangement is basically a lot of Exhibitionist / Voyeur related adventures between my two main leads.

It took 12 chapters (my stories are short) to finally get the two leads in bed.

So of course, the scene was long and full of detail. Because the characters, and readers, deserved it after the wait.

Since then, I have written a few other full sex scenes between them.

But I've also written chapters that stick more to their E/V adventures and then just imply heavily they had sex later, but not actually write the sex scene.

One chapter ended with Jenna taking her man Tom by the hand to the bedroom after he told her the story of how he'd masturbated with her best friend.

The story closes with the bedroom door behind them.

So it depends on what your story is, what the themes are etc. And how far along your characters are in their relationship of course.

A first time sex scene between two major characters deserves more page space than their 3rd, 4th or tenth time.

Generally of course. Maybe that tenth time they finally try anal or something lol.

In the end, no RULES and if there's rules, there's also exceptions to them.

 

[Emilymcplugger]

My series The Jenna Arrangement is basically a lot of Exhibitionist / Voyeur related adventures between my two main leads.

It took 12 chapters (my stories are short) to finally get the two leads in bed.

So of course, the scene was long and full of detail. Because the characters, and readers, deserved it after the wait.

Since then, I have written a few other full sex scenes between them.

But I've also written chapters that stick more to their E/V adventures and then just imply heavily they had sex later, but not actually write the sex scene.

One chapter ended with Jenna taking her man Tom by the hand to the bedroom after he told her the story of how he'd masturbated with her best friend.

The story closes with the bedroom door behind them.

So it depends on what your story is, what the themes are etc. And how far along your characters are in their relationship of course.

A first time sex scene between two major characters deserves more page space than their 3rd, 4th or tenth time.

Generally of course. Maybe that tenth time they finally try anal or something lol.

In the end, no RULES and if there's rules, there's also exceptions to them.

I love the close the door ending.

Although that said in the next chapter of HAF I reveal what happens so I guess I’m having my cake and eating it there.

 

[Djmac1031]

I love the close the door ending.

I do too. I had of course considered actually writing the scene. The characters had been apart for a few weeks, so it was a reconnection between them.

BUT my series is, mostly, E/V related, and as such I felt the previous scene describing the shared masturbation experience between Tom and her friend Trish was the heart of that chapter.

 

[KeithD]

Oh, goodie, yet another thread looking for the universal formula that gets the author that all-important top rating on a porn story site.

 

[Djmac1031]

Oh, goodie, yet another thread looking for the universal formula that gets the author that all-important top rating on a porn story site.

Please point out exactly where the OP mentions ratings.

 

[KeithD]

Please point out exactly where the OP mentions ratings.

Why? It's obvious where the "What's the universal winning story?" thread go. It partners here with the "What you should write to serve me personally" threads. And those are just step short of the "How can I write child pornography stories here?" threads.

 

[Djmac1031]

Why? It's obvious where the "what's the universal winning story?" thread go. It partners here with the "what you should write to serve me personally" threads.

Or maybe someone is just looking to discuss different and better ways to write a story.

Which is kinda what I thought the point of this forum was.

 

[Djmac1031]

How can I write child pornography stories here?" threads.

Again, please direct us to where under age sex was mentioned in this thread.

 

[KeithD]

Or maybe someone is just looking to discuss different and better ways to write a story.

And they aren't good enough writers to do it without enlisting a committee of strangers?

 

[KeithD]

What are you avoiding facing? This is the thoughts and prayers approach to issues, isn't it? "Hey, look over there, no, not here, over there."