That's no way for a lady to behave!

[TheRedChamber]

Ok, we'll start with some music to set the tone of the thread...

In another thread that's going on at the moment about long/short stories (yes another one!), I observed that the reason why alohadave might be writing shorter stories was that his female characters are whipping their boyfriend's cocks out within the opening few sentences (and that this isn't necessarily a bad thing!). As my stories tend to overplotting and overwriting and cocks generally don't make an appearance until the second page, I decided over the weekend to adopt this writing strategy just for fun and see what I came up with. I ended up writing a couple of thousands words stream of conciousness, stream of filth - student union party, one of the girls is drunk and has her beau's cock out in semi-public, the 'responsible' FMC friend, grabs the male best-friend, and pulls the couple away to go and foursome in their dorm room; the girls set the pace and bring the condoms, the boys aren't going to risk their good fortune by arguing and, character-wise, could be replaced by dildo's if dildo's could cum. As I was writing it, I was reminded of the above song, and was thinking of using the names as an Easter Egg, which was what put it in mind.

Another story I'm writing has a drunken girl's night out turn into a first-time lesbian encounter. Thus, at the club, the character who has already decided what she wan't is responding to male enquiries of 'Can I buy you a drink?' with the words 'Piss off'. See, snappy writing! She'll later be 'manipulating' the MC into letting her crash at hers, rather than going home.

Thing is my characters are usually a bit more well-behaved than this, if not sometimes downright prim. As my nana would say if she were on this thread, is any of this behaviour 'attractive' or 'appropriate' for a young (or not so young) lady? The scenario I outlined about would have been one I'd be delighted to find myself in during my real student days (but alas), but as this is fantasy, maybe I'd prefer it if the ladettes needed fewer rum and Ribena's to get into those positions.

Anyway, all this got me to thinking about the behaviour of my female characters in stories.

I'd like to do another author's shooting the breeze about the topic. (Don't worry, I'll do a 'that's no way for a gentleman to behave' thread next week if this one goes well...) That is, I'm not particularly seeking advice or help, just interested in how other people approach this. The discussion questions.

1) How do the women in your stories behave? Do you have any particular types of behaviour that you gravitate to or avoid when writing?
2) How do you view drunken, crude, loutish, drug-use, violent behaviour? Do your women cuss like sailors (In or out of the bedroom) or do they hold to standards of behaviour that even an Victorian Finishing School ma'am would find unrealistic?
3) Even if you are writing characters who are unleashed with regards to Q2, do you like your female characters to be fundamentally good or are you happy to have your men hook up with girls who are bad-to-the-bone.
4) How do readers react to your characters? Are there any types of behaviour that get complaints?
(Note this is all about behaviour rather than appearance or agency, which we've discussed recently.)

Some possible archetypes to help the discussion along.

The Naive Girl - even if she's not a virgin, there's a lot she hasn't done and she'll need (between one sentence and 3 pages of) convincing before she does it. None of this was her idea, in fact she probably hadn't heard of this particular sexual practice until moments ago, but she really wants to make her boyfriend/daddy/prime minister happy.
The Quiet Freak - doesn't have many friends, keeps to herself, maybe mistaken for the naive girl until the MC gets her into bed and realizes that she has whole volumes of notebooks of stuff she's going to make him do and that he is in way, way out of his league.
The Frustrated Housewife - her life is boring. Like the naive girl there's a whole bunch of stuff she's never done, but unlike the naive girl, she's thought about it. A lot. But she'd never actually do it because she's moral and upstanding. Until...
The Femme Fatale - there's something she wants and (un)luckily for the MC he can help her get it because he'd never get within a million miles of her otherwise.
The Man-Eater - unlike the femme fatale, the thing she wants is a lot simplier to provide. She's still going to eat him up and spit him out though.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Generally speaking:

1) intelligent, confident women with a strong sense of self, high levels of sexual awareness with an emphasis on sensuality, intimacy. Treats a worthwhile man as an equal, can manage an alpha male because she's an alpha too.

2) virtually non existent in any of my stories.

3) I've written some narcissistic, self-indulgent heroines who nearly always end up with some humanity, but never lose their core.

4) positively - and glad to see some of my favourites return for a sequel.

 

[Duleigh]

In my stories
1) Depends on the story. Stories that need a strong female character get one, stories that need a clinging violet get one, stories that need a comedic nutcase get one.
2) I view it beneath me. I grew up in a family of alcoholics, I don't feel a need to relive that. If any of my female characters have an issue that would cause alcoholism or drug abuse, I try to resolve it.
3) I like all my characters to be redeemable. Any character that can't be redeemed, regardless of sex, gets written out and made a lesson of.
4) Very favorably. I had one story where a character was slated to die and a few readers figured it out and were a bit upset so I changed the course of the story before it got to that point.

 

[MrPixel]

Since I mostly write a rom-com series about a charismatic semi-rich MMC and the harem he haplessly accumulated, I have lots of FC personalities to choose from.

1) For one thing, they're all quite intelligent and beautiful, some more confident than the others. One is a Harvard lawyer who goes wit-for-wit with the MMC with every encounter. She's fun to write. Another is a late-bloomer, a playful spinner who the MMC "adopted" and helped her emerge from her shell.

2) Drunken? No, 'cept for one episode where the lawyer and the MMCs business partner (FC) got shitfaced on frozen margaritas and got sexually rowdy in a restaurant. Underlying theme there is "Steve's Rule #3: No sex when drunk, you have to be there to enjoy it." Closest I guess they get to anti-social behavior is semi-public sexual activity in the hotel bar the MMC owns. Two FCs are exhibitionists.

3) My FCs are all fundamentally good, and care for and about each other, and willingly share the MMC. No bad-asses, except the lawyer when she needs to be, and then watch out!; she was a man-eater before falling in love with the MMC. Another is a bit of a nympho, the MMC still caring deeply for her and her for him, his citing "that's the way she is." She was almost written out, but retained since her near-miss spawned a whole bunch of plot development.

4) I get no reader reaction. I publish in Group Sex, which is sort of a ghost town. That's OK, 'cause I enjoy reading what I write. In the end, that's what counts, anyway.

 

[nice90sguy]

I'm a male writer of what might be called "femdom" , but I try not to fall into the trap of pandering too much to male submissive fantasies in my stories.

All of my stories are not so much "femdom", as clarion calls for pussy-power. It's why I write erotica.

The women in my stories are nice, evil, fucked up, smart, stupid, emotionally immature, wise, cold, friendly, old, young; they're gentle and violent, victims and perpetrators --- but rarely do they behave like "one of the guys" or drunken louts.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

1) How do the women in your stories behave? Do you have any particular types of behaviour that you gravitate to or avoid when writing?

A few drinks helps along many a plot... This is partly because it's the British way to do things. You don't 'date', rather 'go out' with someone, which is immediately considered exclusive unless stated otherwise. Getting to the point of going out with them generally involved getting drunk and falling onto their face for a big snog...

My women tend to insist on standards of pleasure from their men. They'll happily suck cock if there's a quid pro quo.

2) How do you view drunken, crude, loutish, drug-use, violent behaviour? Do your women cuss like sailors (In or out of the bedroom) or do they hold to standards of behaviour that even an Victorian Finishing School ma'am would find unrealistic?

Varied. Laura spends three chapters of Educating Laura coming to the conclusion that she's now the sort of girl who uses words like 'cunt'. My most recent story has her helping Rachel shake off the mores that a posh boarding school attempted to inflict upon them. I don't generally include violence in my stories (only a couple men have indulged), and little drug use apart from alcohol.

But being a woman around a bunch of lads and indulging in laddish behaviour, I write rather a lot of. What you know, innit. Being one of a few women makes it more likely a man will be wanting her, which makes plot.

3) Even if you are writing characters who are unleashed with regards to Q2, do you like your female characters to be fundamentally good or are you happy to have your men hook up with girls who are bad-to-the-bone.

I generally write about good people. Decent people that may be fucked up and may enjoy lots of sex. There's enough arseholes out there without me inventing more of them.

4) How do readers react to your characters? Are there any types of behaviour that get complaints?
People say my women are realistic and hot, if they're not complaining about them talking too much in British English first.

 

[onehitwanda]

4) How do readers react to your characters? Are there any types of behaviour that get complaints?
People say my women are realistic and hot, if they're not complaining about them talking too much in British English first.

Oh dear, and I'd just finished sobering up...

 

[stickygirl]

I have no idea what any of you are talking about. Writing porn has become so complicated

 

[onehitwanda]

I have no idea what any of you are talking about. Writing porn has become so complicated

It really isn't. Here's the recipe that I find works just perfectly for me.

1. three tots of Kraken spiced black rum
2. A slice of lemon
3. 1 pint of coke or pepsi
4. A paper umbrella
5. Ice to personal taste
6. repeat 1 - 5 until no longer sober
7. open ye olde craptop
8. flail around like this kitty:
https://media.tenor.com/CrWHpzxIZYEAAAAC/cat-typing-gif.gif

9. job done.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

1. They always have agency and depth. They know what they want and they are strong in their own ways, so I don't resort to the retarded tropes of recent Woke culture.

2. Hmm, yeah they are more or less sophisticated and womanly, even when they are fierce fighters. I suppose it's a thing of mine. I have never been attracted to women who behave like men, even if I do have a couple of female friends who are like that.

3. I've just realized I am yet to create a negative female character... So far all of them were fundamentally good, but I am planning to have one baddie in the future.

4. They usually dislike that my female characters are assertive/dominant in sex, that it's more about their pleasure rather than male pleasure. A big majority of readers definitely likes men being dominant in my opinion, so yeah I am fighting against the odds there and it shows in the number of views, as I clearly state the sexual theme. Funny thing is that my men are at least as assertive as women outside sex, but I guess that counts for less than sex itself

 

[stickygirl]

Jesus. What ever happened to men and women being equals? Or that people can be pushed so far IRL but snap in the end and push back? What about compromise? What about 'It's my turn this time' as she reaches for the strap on?

Apologies if my vision went blurred making sense of the discussion, but is a summary to say that your readers appear to want things pos/neg black/white sub/dom? Isn't that kinda boring to write and if so, why play to cheap seats? Writing formulaic porn I suppose has its place, but the real world is not so simple.

I dunno, maybe I'm the idiot, thinking that people can be fair and decent to each other?

 

[lovecraft68]

SG beat me to my point, so I'll just add I write women the way I write men, like people and people, regardless of gender and other differences are more alike than the people who fuel constant divide in our society want you to think.

I also write them according to what they need to be for the story to work, and again I do the same for male characters.

There's nothing wrong with discussing any topic and I guess some people need to put their thoughts out and there and get affirmations, or even disagreements from others, to help them with their process.

But there has been similar discussions in the past which just turn into a bunch of guys trying to figure out the female mind, gaze, motivations as if they were an alien species. Then we get the fake feminism where every man treats their Female MC's like queens(looking at one in particular here) then the mansplaining, then the arguing...

Also, much of the BS associated with expressions like "no way for a lady to behave" were coined by men and perpetuated by women raised to be under their thumb so the entire premise here just speaks to generations of misogynistic society still holding sway even if we don't always realize it.

I'll say again that although well intended, the Pink Orchid event brings out the worst of the "oh, I love the strong womens!" disingenuous BS just as we'll see it here.

 

[SimonDoom]

I dunno, maybe I'm the idiot, thinking that people can be fair and decent to each other?

It's a nice adage for living, but it's not a great recipe for interesting fiction. Good stories usually (not always, but usually) turn on conflict of some kind-- conflict between two people, internal conflict, conflict with society, etc. Even in a good simple romance there's usually an obstacle, sometimes a completely irrational one, that drives the two parties apart until they come together in the end.

So, scrolling up to TheRedChamber's list of character types, a frustrated housewife makes a better character for an erotic story than a completely satisfied one. I also believe, based on everything I've lived and seen, that although these are stereotypes, there's a lot of truth in stereotypes when it comes to sexual behavior. People really ARE conflicted, repressed, inhibited, disapproving, torn by community and religious expectations. These things make the exploration of erotic experiences more dramatic and more erotic.

I also believe 100% that many people, when reading erotica, want to explore themes that have nothing to do with their ordinary lives. So, for example, a seemingly happy, confident, assertive male CEO of a company fantasizes about being a sissy sub to a leather-clad femdom. A reader like that wants erotica to match his fantasies, not his expectations of every day life.

I happily admit I'm a fan of the "good girl gone wild" theme in erotic stories, and it's a theme I like to read and like to explore in my writing.

 

[stickygirl]

It's a nice adage for living, but it's not a great recipe for interesting fiction. Good stories usually (not always, but usually) turn on conflict of some kind-- conflict between two people, internal conflict, conflict with society, etc. Even in a good simple romance there's usually an obstacle, sometimes a completely irrational one, that drives the two parties apart until they come together in the end.

So, scrolling up to TheRedChamber's list of character types, a frustrated housewife makes a better character for an erotic story than a completely satisfied one. I also believe, based on everything I've lived and seen, that although these are stereotypes, there's a lot of truth in stereotypes when it comes to sexual behavior. People really ARE conflicted, repressed, inhibited, disapproving, torn by community and religious expectations. These things make the exploration of erotic experiences more dramatic and more erotic.

I also believe 100% that many people, when reading erotica, want to explore themes that have nothing to do with their ordinary lives. So, for example, a seemingly happy, confident, assertive male CEO of a company fantasizes about being a sissy sub to a leather-clad femdom. A reader like that wants erotica to match his fantasies, not his expectations of every day life.

I happily admit I'm a fan of the "good girl gone wild" theme in erotic stories, and it's a theme I like to read and like to explore in my writing.

I guess it's the difference between
https://www.hadfieldfineart.co.uk/image/cache/catalog/Angie%20Spencer/AS022%20web-300x300.jpg
and
https://i0.wp.com/tomcliment.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/The-Island-1.jpg?resize=750%2C495&ssl=1
Happily the depository of Literotica has dudgeons and attics for both
... and why I hate soap tv

 

[SimonDoom]

I guess it's the difference between
https://www.hadfieldfineart.co.uk/image/cache/catalog/Angie%20Spencer/AS022%20web-300x300.jpg
and
https://i0.wp.com/tomcliment.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/The-Island-1.jpg?resize=750%2C495&ssl=1
Happily the depository of Literotica has dudgeons and attics for both
... and why I hate soap tv

Well put. Whatever floats your boat, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Jesus. What ever happened to men and women being equals? Or that people can be pushed so far IRL but snap in the end and push back? What about compromise? What about 'It's my turn this time' as she reaches for the strap on?

Apologies if my vision went blurred making sense of the discussion, but is a summary to say that your readers appear to want things pos/neg black/white sub/dom? Isn't that kinda boring to write and if so, why play to cheap seats? Writing formulaic porn I suppose has its place, but the real world is not so simple.

I dunno, maybe I'm the idiot, thinking that people can be fair and decent to each other?

I suppose many readers stick to tropes in their erotica. That is the only way I can explain the way majority reacts when you want to write something different. I've even had some writers here comment that my character(s) don't make sense, because they aren't binary in a sense that they are dominant or submissive both in and out of sex. Also, I completely agree with Simon about conflict, adversity and fantasy being primary themes in erotica and all other fiction in my opinion. I guess being too realistic means being boring, and this time I agree with readers as fiction is a form of escapism

 

[TheRedChamber]

But there has been similar discussions in the past which just turn into a bunch of guys trying to figure out the female mind, gaze, motivations as if they were an alien species. Then we get the fake feminism where every man treats their Female MC's like queens(looking at one in particular here) then the mansplaining, then the arguing...

I'm actually asking it from the opposite direction. We could ask what makes a woman attractive physically. We could ask what clothes make a woman more attractive. Similarly we can ask what characteristics make a woman more attractive (intelligence, humour, empathy). What I'm asking is from a male perspective (or from a women who like women perspective) what kinds of behaviour make a women more attractive and what's a turn off? Are authors coming with the same kind of behaviours across stories because thats what they like and/or what they think their readers would like?

Also, much of the BS associated with expressions like "no way for a lady to behave" were coined by men and perpetuated by women raised to be under their thumb so the entire premise here just speaks to generations of misogynistic society still holding sway even if we don't always realize it.

My title was supposed to be tongue in check and my reference to it being something my grandmother would say was supposed to say was supposed to highlight that. I guess that I didn't quite hit that correctly.

Jesus. What ever happened to men and women being equals? Or that people can be pushed so far IRL but snap in the end and push back? What about compromise? What about 'It's my turn this time' as she reaches for the strap on?

I'm not really talking equality. I'm positing that there are things men like in woman and things women like in men and some of these may be the same and some of them may be different. (And everyone likes different things)

I was thinking less in bed, where anything goes acording the genre and the fetishes of the crowd. (But for the record, while I've not written strap-on sex yet, I have done domme uses a butt-plug on him and teases it with her feet and that story did do worse than those with submissive female characters so...)

Put it another way. Very few people would argue that 'kindness' was a bad trait for any person to have. So I write a first date scene and on their way back from the restaurant, my heroine discovers an injured street dog and I spend the next 5k words describing how she nurses it back to health. My readers are sure to love that right as I am demonstrates a supposedly attractive trait - they'd much rather have that than me rushing to the bedroom scene surely?

Apologies if my vision went blurred making sense of the discussion, but is a summary to say that your readers appear to want things pos/neg black/white sub/dom? Isn't that kinda boring to write and if so, why play to cheap seats? Writing formulaic porn I suppose has its place, but the real world is not so simple.

I'd suggest that there are clearly behaviours that readers in general in each category like and dislike (and behaviour that will fly in BDSM certainly will go down less well in I/T). But even if you're not writing things black and white sometimes you have decisions to make.

For instance in my current story my outline says the two characters go out and get drunk. I've critized story in the feedback section for characters who are what I call plot drunk. That is to say they show no signs of being drunk except that every so often the writer will say something like. "I could make [sensible choice] or I could make [stupid choice]. I was drunk so I did [stupid choice]" I want to avoid that that, so I have to write some kind of drunk signals into the story. Do I have my characters a) be slightly red faced b) dance crazily c) tell stupid jokes d) swear more than normal e) sway f) fall over g) puke before sex h) end up in a fist fight... At some point (male or female) that's going to start to be unattractive to the reader. A lot of writers would tap out around (e). I was searching just now cause I remembered KumquatQueen (i.e. the Queen of Kumquats and Drunken Sex)having a character puke before sex , but it seems they only had a long conversation about NOT puking.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Then we get the fake feminism where every man treats their Female MC's like queens(looking at one in particular here) then the mansplaining, then the arguing...

Damn, I have no idea who you are referring to. There are some new guys here who don't know all the ancient history. I demand future references to be more noob friendly

 

[AlinaX]

I guess I have a lot of Generic Innocent female characters who find themselves in an unusual scenario, and a lot of Young And Slutty FCs too.

Then there are the darker ones where the FC is dominating and ruthless: the Assassin, the Lesbian Vampire, the Vengeful Queen.

Where I have longer stories, or series, I try to avoid the obvious tropes, and while the FC is essentially good, they will likely enjoy moments of cruelty too.

 

[SimonDoom]

We could ask what makes a woman attractive physically. We could ask what clothes make a woman more attractive. Similarly we can ask what characteristics make a woman more attractive (intelligence, humour, empathy). What I'm asking is from a male perspective (or from a women who like women perspective) what kinds of behaviour make a women more attractive and what's a turn off?

There are two difficulties with approaching the issue by asking the question this way, as I see it.

Problem one is that people are different, and what men, or other women, want in a woman is different. Variety in taste is infinite. There's a good chance that whatever you write, there will be an audience for it.

Problem two is that people/readers are conflicted and want different things in reality from what they want in fantasy. There's the woman who wants to marry the stable stockbroker but who fantasizes about the bad boy on a motorcycle. There's the nice guy who wants to marry the girl next door but secretly fantasizes about the girl in the braless crop top who goes dogging at the local park.

My stories tend to focus on the fantasy world, rather than on reality, and I try to drop in just enough touches of reality to make them seem realistic (verisimilitude), which they do to the satisfaction of some readers but not all.

But in general, although I try to avoid generalizations as being "truths," I'd say I like internal conflict. I want characters who on the surface want one thing and deep down want another. I think that heightens erotic tension and pleasure.

 

[stickygirl]

I suppose many readers stick to tropes in their erotica. That is the only way I can explain the way majority reacts when you want to write something different. I've even had some writers here comment that my character(s) don't make sense, because they aren't binary in a sense that they are dominant or submissive both in and out of sex. Also, I completely agree with Simon about conflict, adversity and fantasy being primary themes in erotica and all other fiction in my opinion. I guess being too realistic means being boring, and this time I agree with readers as fiction is a form of escapism

Thanks, that clarifies for me what is clearly a common practise in story themes that has passed me by. That's okay though and it would be awful if everyone tapped into the same ground swell of discontent for plots. I witness enough of that IRL past and present and have no wish for my characters to be locking horns.

 

[NoTalentHack]

It really depends on the characters and what I want to do in the stories. The sort of "stock" female MC in my stories is smart but not a genius, a little foulmouthed (and a lot foulmouthed in bed), mostly self-assured, knows what they want in and out of bed (although sometimes the story is about getting her to that point, where she will admit what she wants to herself), and generally a decent person. That's probably half of them, including most of the ones in the more romantic stories.

But I'm in LW, so the FMC is often a primary or secondary antagonist for part of the story. And they can be those things as well, but they're sometimes broken in ways that make/made them incompatible with being faithful. That can be a character who overintellectualizes things and tries to convince herself up is down (Joan in Arbitrary); someone who was selfish and egotistical, then cowardly when older (Lynn in No Place to Go); a woman can't stop being competitive, even in her own personal relationships (Liz in Unwanted Memories and Anne in Incompatible Needs), or any number of other flaws.

And if that sounds unfair, the guys in those stories are usually pretty flawed, too, often as flawed and sometimes more flawed than the women. In any story with reconciliation as a component, I find it's important for both characters to grow for it to work.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Problem one is that people are different, and what men, or other women, want in a woman is different. Variety in taste is infinite. There's a good chance that whatever you write, there will be an audience for it.

I'm not asking to reach any kind of conclusion for myself. I'm just interested in how people would answer this question for themselves.

Problem two is that people/readers are conflicted and want different things in reality from what they want in fantasy. There's the woman who wants to marry the stable stockbroker but who fantasizes about the bad boy on a motorcycle. There's the nice guy who wants to marry the girl next door but secretly fantasizes about the girl in the braless crop top who goes dogging at the local park.

I get that. Again, the question I guess is if you are writing the 'bad boy' at what point does bad become too bad (or not bad enough). A lot of movies come acropper when they get the bad boy mix wrong.

A good example of what I mean by behaviour is my story where the couple goes dogging and I'm worried that people won't like my characters because she's nagging her husband about stopping off at the chip shop on the way home (and indeed some commentors didn't like her - perhaps if she'd cooked a home meal they'd have liked her better!).

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not asking to reach any kind of conclusion for myself. I'm just interested in how people would answer this question for themselves.


I get that. Again, the question I guess is if you are writing the 'bad boy' at what point does bad become too bad (or not bad enough). A lot of movies come acropper when they get the bad boy mix wrong.

A good example of what I mean by behaviour is my story where the couple goes dogging and I'm worried that people won't like my characters because she's nagging her husband about stopping off at the chip shop on the way home (and indeed some commentors didn't like her - perhaps if she'd cooked a home meal they'd have liked her better!).

It's why you can't take your cue from reader reactions. Because they diverge so much. There's one type of reader who wants to see fantasy characters descend into depravity as far as they can go, because it's part of the fun and the fantasy. And then there's the other type of reader who interprets your fantasy story as how you want things to be in reality, and they flip out at the immorality of it all. There's no reconciling these two different kinds of readers.

I write mostly for the first kind of reader, because that's the kind of reader I am. I don't read erotic stories as Aesop's fables, which are supposed to tell a nice moral. I want fantasy. I want exploration of strange, sometimes dark stuff. The one way that I am somewhat moralistic is that I tend to treat erotic exploration as a positive thing and I let my characters get away with things that they might not get away with in real life.

 

[NotWise]

1) How do the women in your stories behave? Do you have any particular types of behaviour that you gravitate to or avoid when writing?
2) How do you view drunken, crude, loutish, drug-use, violent behaviour? Do your women cuss like sailors (In or out of the bedroom) or do they hold to standards of behaviour that even an Victorian Finishing School ma'am would find unrealistic?
3) Even if you are writing characters who are unleashed with regards to Q2, do you like your female characters to be fundamentally good or are you happy to have your men hook up with girls who are bad-to-the-bone.
4) How do readers react to your characters? Are there any types of behaviour that get complaints?
(Note this is all about behaviour rather than appearance or agency, which we've discussed recently.)

Women in my stories are usually rational. Some are more adventurous than others. A few have been insane.

My female characters swear about as much as the guys. I keep drinking to casual levels. Same for drug use. I don't think any of my characters are particularly pious. At the other end of the scale, two of my favorites were (dead) hookers, one was a witch, one was a courtesan and spy.

As a reader, I won't wade through much drugged or drunken behavior before I feel like my time is being wasted.

I like my characters to be fundamentally good -- at least from their own point of view. Even the antagonists can be good from their own point of view.

Characters' behavior need to be consistent with expectations in the story's category, or there will be comments and down votes. Romance readers, for instance, have expectations.