Advice on tags

[MediocreAuthor]

I recently wrote a story about an alternate universe where male and female societal roles are switched. Men are expected by society to stay pure; while women are generally expected to try to score with as many virginal guys as they can. Women tend to be taller and stronger, so society progressed differently.
Standard, straight, gender-bending stuff.

I tagged the story:

deepthroat, noncon, reluctance, blowjob, female dominant, high school, cum swallowing, male virgin, oral, public nudity

(because all of those are relevant tags).
But I was wondering if there were different common names for what I've created always in existence...? Anything that will help the intended readers find the story.
Thanks

It's right here if you're curious to read it:

https://literotica.com/s/living-in-a-womans-world

All I ask is that you please don't vote it down simply because you dislike the premise. If you hate the dialogue, pacing, characters, or anything else, then by all means, 1* the shit out of it.

But if you read it when you wouldn't have normally read it (just because of this post), please don't down vote it on that fact alone. I still want the intended fans to check it out. Lol

 

[Euphony]

It's a worthy premise though I wonder on whether standard tagging is going to help meet your intended audience. You are flipping things on their head but using standard tags that bring with them established context. A interesting thought exercise for sure...

I would be sure to identify the matriarchal nature of this world in tags unless you are in love with unraveling the societal surprise.

Overarchingly though, when you experiment like this, best to remember scores don't have the greatest illuminative weight, especially on big swings such as this.

Lit can be very "fast food" in that quality and novelty might not always be valued over old familiar and fast in, out, move on with my day.

 

[SimonDoom]

I scanned the story and your tags. My thought is that your tags, other than "female dominant," don't address the main kink of your story. They're all over the map. I also don't see this as a "noncon" story, but that's where you put it. I'm not sure what the right category is, but if you were to redo the tags I would suggest considering some like "gender reversal," "gender switch," and "femdom."
I recommend visiting the Tag page and playing with it and searching for tags until you find some that seem appropriate and that have been used before.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I would be sure to identify the matriarchal nature of this world in tags unless you are in love with unraveling the societal surprise.

My question is then, "What tags would best help me highlight the matriarchal nature of this story?"

I guess "Matriarchal Society" might be a good tag?

My hope was that there were already some sort of shorthand name for "an alternate universe where male and female societal roles are switched"

I'm guessing from your answer that there aren't... Or at least there aren't any that you're familiar with. Thank you either way.

(And to answer your last part of that sentence: no, within the story the societal changes are no surprise to the reader. I spell them out immediately, {in the description actually} although I allow the exact extent of the changes to be discovered within the text)

 

[ElectricBlue]

Your tags give no indication of the major theme as you've stated it.

I'd have started with the primary theme (gender reversal?), then move on to the types of sex portrayed; you appear to have done the opposite.

 

[Euphony]

All I ask is that you please don't vote it down simply because you dislike the premise. If you hate the dialogue, pacing, characters, or anything else, then by all means, 1* the shit out of it.

But if you read it when you wouldn't have normally read it (just because of this post), please don't down vote it on that fact alone. I still want the intended fans to check it out. Lol

Gave it a 5 because I respect the try and the ratings around here are so skewed, those who can't handle cookie cutter 1 bombs will unfairly drag the overall.

That said...

Grammatically, needed more verb pacing. The past perfect started getting heavy and weighing on my feet enough I hopscotched sentences desperate to get back to dialog, where pacing improved dramatically. It's not your *actions* weren't working, just the narrative flow.

Numerous reminders of how the world is opposite our own social norms got checklist-y. You'd long established the exact polarity switch so going over detail after detail felt like you didn't trust me, the reader, to follow along so you spoon fed me.

Pregnancy felt unaddressed. (admittedly this is more a creative choice rumination than pass/fail. Also, plenty here get stupid over any hint at common sense in their fiction) Women having way more sex but retaining the heavier consequence FOR sex floated through my mind a bit, pulling me from the story on the page. Perfect birth control can fix it but seems a bit too perfect as well, depending on the reader (I'm, admittedly, more fuddy duddy)

Lastly, and try not to take this as a grading (I'm no expert) but a thought provoking story discussion, I struggled mightily with a feeling of convience of much of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SO much of it was perfectly opposite, much of it felt like we were switching out girl names for boy names with a few physical tact ons to address (man nipples now prized. Boobs being less socially shameful yet also ostracized the girl who would, in our world, be prized for hers)

It would have been interesting to have some things flip perfectly but others not. Or things we don't value much at all take on significance (beards being prized but also slut signaling or something, I haven't thought it through but you see the direction)

I don't mean it as a negative but the thought that kept floating through my mind was "narrative convience." It felt like an incredible concept, that should challenge the heck out of us the read and those inhabiting this upside down world that just didn't.

Again, I'm a fuddy duddy, but I didn't take away any theme or challenge to my preconceived notions of how we operate as a society and how different interpersonal boy/girl conflicts would be if norms were opposite.

Boys are now "stereotypical girls" and girls are now "stereotypical boys" for the most part and much of the conflict felt like minor changes and minor accommodations for the differences in our physical parts. Were I to change the gender of the names or establish a trans friendly universe (so the bodies differences aren't assumed &/or are removed) I wonder if all interesting conflict doesn't disappear? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, love the BIG concept. Wanted a BIG theme to match. More swiftness in verbs/pacing. Dialog was a breath of fresh air and will only get better when it can address more solid conflict.

Tags become a real (and fascinating) challenge because you've essentially upended gravity. "Big boobs" will only piss off big boob lovers, etc.

I would absolutely HAMMER the matriarchal nature of the narrative, in tags and getting it out in front ASAP so readers won't jump ship.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I scanned the story and your tags. My thought is that your tags, other than "female dominant," don't address the main kink of your story. They're all over the map. I also don't see this as a "noncon" story, but that's where you put it. I'm not sure what the right category is, but if you were to redo the tags I would suggest considering some like "gender reversal," "gender switch," and "femdom."
I recommend visiting the Tag page and playing with it and searching for tags until you find some that seem appropriate and that have been used before.

I appreciate the advice.

I'll probably use some of your suggestions in later chapters

I could understand how you'd miss the noncon elements. They're near the end of the story, and the guy, (lost in pleasure) isn't incredibly vocal in asking the girl to stop. But he does clearly ask her to stop multiple times, and she refuses. I consider that noncon.

Although the tags are all over the place, every one does correspond to something within the story. Perhaps I'm being to liberal with what tags I use, but I've always preferred the stories I read to have more tags than less.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Your tags give no indication of the major theme as you've stated it.

I'd have started with the primary theme (gender reversal?), then move on to the types of sex portrayed; you appear to have done the opposite.

I realize. That's what I was seeking help on. Lol I literally do not know what tags to include to highlight the "primary themes"

 

[Euphony]

I realize. That's what I was seeking help on. Lol I literally do not know what tags to include to highlight the "primary themes"

Electric wisely pointed out it's as much about what you DON'T include than what you do (and your desire to tag heavy b/c it's what works for you as a reader may be working against you in this case)

I couldn't think of any tag (which are common themes people are searching for) that can signal to the searcher the absolute polarity switch you have chosen to play with. You went big enough to be in uncharted tag territory.

Sex acts you would list have OUR context that people are searching for. Crude example, "big boob" lovers are going to despise your world b/c you've thrown them the absolutely opposite they desire. It's akin to writing "gay" and not included gay themes b/c "my world, gay IS hetero so hetero themes for all!")

 

[ElectricBlue]

I realize. That's what I was seeking help on. Lol I literally do not know what tags to include to highlight the "primary themes"

What ideas went through your mind as you wrote it? That's got to be the starting point, surely?

Tags can be tricky, we've only got ten of them, so they need to do some heavy lifting. If your story is working outside your usual smut and porn, think people and their relationships first, then sex.

Don't bother trying to fix this one, though. Write your next story, and get its tags working better. And use the category tag pages, you'll probably get ideas there, especially the most used words. I always do that now, it helps (I'm usually rubbish with tags).

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Some stories have obvious tags that people search for. Mom, brother, breasts. Others less so. There's lots of phrases that might sum up the story if used as tags, but that only helps if someone has found the story and then chooses to look at the tags before reading. Which doesn't happen much. I sometimes repeat all the tags at the top of the story if I want people to see them.

Tags useable as search terms that someone might search for and then still be happy when your story comes up - genderqueer? Sex swap or gender swap?

One option is to use the tags to get lots of clicks, then a preamble paragraph like on the back cover of a book which properly conveys what to expect.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Gave it a 5 because I respect the try and the ratings around here are so skewed, those who can't handle cookie cutter 1 bombs will unfairly drag the overall.

That said...

Grammatically, needed more verb pacing. The past perfect started getting heavy and weighing on my feet enough I hopscotched sentences desperate to get back to dialog, where pacing improved dramatically. It's not your *actions* weren't working, just the narrative flow.

Numerous reminders of how the world is opposite our own social norms got checklist-y. You'd long established the exact polarity switch so going over detail after detail felt like you didn't trust me, the reader, to follow along so you spoon fed me.

Pregnancy felt unaddressed. (admittedly this is more a creative choice rumination than pass/fail. Also, plenty here get stupid over any hint at common sense in their fiction) Women having way more sex but retaining the heavier consequence FOR sex floated through my mind a bit, pulling me from the story on the page. Perfect birth control can fix it but seems a bit too perfect as well, depending on the reader (I'm, admittedly, more fuddy duddy)

Lastly, and try not to take this as a grading (I'm no expert) but a thought provoking story discussion, I struggled mightily with a feeling of convience of much of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SO much of it was perfectly opposite, much of it felt like we were switching out girl names for boy names with a few physical tact ons to address (man nipples now prized. Boobs being less socially shameful yet also ostracized the girl who would, in our world, be prized for hers)

It would have been interesting to have some things flip perfectly but others not. Or things we don't value much at all take on significance (beards being prized but also slut signaling or something, I haven't thought it through but you see the direction)

I don't mean it as a negative but the thought that kept floating through my mind was "narrative convience." It felt like an incredible concept, that should challenge the heck out of us the read and those inhabiting this upside down world that just didn't.

Again, I'm a fuddy duddy, but I didn't take away any theme or challenge to my preconceived notions of how we operate as a society and how different interpersonal boy/girl conflicts would be if norms were opposite.

Boys are now "stereotypical girls" and girls are now "stereotypical boys" for the most part and much of the conflict felt like minor changes and minor accommodations for the differences in our physical parts. Were I to change the gender of the names or establish a trans friendly universe (so the bodies differences aren't assumed &/or are removed) I wonder if all interesting conflict doesn't disappear? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, love the BIG concept. Wanted a BIG theme to match. More swiftness in verbs/pacing. Dialog was a breath of fresh air and will only get better when it can address more solid conflict.

Tags become a real (and fascinating) challenge because you've essentially upended gravity. "Big boobs" will only piss off big boob lovers, etc.

I would absolutely HAMMER the matriarchal nature of the narrative, in tags and getting it out in front ASAP so readers won't jump ship.

I really appreciate you giving my story a thorough, critical reading.
As for the grammar, I know that it needs improvement, but I feel like that's something that I have to improve slowly with time. I don't (to my knowledge) have any ABSOLUTE, HARD-CORE fuck-ups. So I'm just writing as well as I can for now, and not, as they say: "letting the perfect become the enemy of the good." (or in my case, the Mediocre lol)

I realize that I struggle with using proper tense and "verb pacing" as you said. But I do what I can. Maybe I should swallow my pride and ask an editor for help, but I hate to, since it would slow down the publishing process. But I should probably just do it anyway until I improve.

I don't exactly know how to make my verbs and pacing swifter, but I'll definitely keep it in mind when writing.

As for the check list-y male/female swaps, I'm afraid I consider that a feature, not a bug. I wasn't planning for this to be my magnum opus. It was intended as a fun, sexy little romp, and I deliberately swapped as many things 1-for-1 as I could. The idea could be handled much more thoughtful by a more skilled writer, but ultimately I'm trying to write fun, sexy trash...

I didn't exchange EVERYTHING, mind you. I didn't have men in dresses or wearing makeup, and I didn't have women cut their hair short, because those ideas didn't appeal to me personally.

But I did swap as many things as I could think of as seamlessly as possible. If you didn't like that portion, I'm afraid that wasn't an unintentional error... I meant that shit. Lol

The second chapter, (which should post tomorrow) addresses pregnancy. I'll warn you though, it's almost as ham-fisted of a fix as perfect birth control you suggested. Women gestate for less time and childbirth is nearly painless. Also women don't bond to their children like real mothers do.
I figured that such a physiological change would be necessary to create a society of "fuck-girls" because that society would have started its roots long before the creation of effective birth control.

Still, thank you for the 5* that we both know I didn't deserve. And thank you for the advice

 

[Euphony]

I don't exactly know how to make my verbs and pacing swifter, but I'll definitely keep it in mind when writing.

As I said, more active verbs and sentence positioning would have made a large difference in your pacing. It's a simple learn & fix.

As for the check list-y male/female swaps, I'm afraid I consider that a feature, not a bug. I wasn't planning for this to be my magnum opus. It was intended as a fun, sexy little romp, and I deliberately swapped as many things 1-for-1 as I could. The idea could be handled much more thoughtful by a more skilled writer, but ultimately I'm trying to write fun, sexy trash...

Creatively, swap however you like. Once you established everything was proceeding 1:1 swap, as your checklist piled up, it quickly felt like you didn't trust us to understand your chosen direction. And it bogged down flow.

But I did swap as many things as I could think of as seamlessly as possible. If you didn't like that portion, I'm afraid that wasn't an unintentional error... I meant that shit. Lol

It feels like you are viewing my observations from a creative choices lens and defending them from there. Choices are authors call and fine. But you admittedly made a checklist and wrote in out basically one item checked off atop the other. It reads clunky. And untrusting.

The second chapter, (which should post tomorrow) addresses pregnancy. I'll warn you though, it's almost as ham-fisted of a fix as perfect birth control you suggested. Women gestate for less time and childbirth is nearly painless. Also women don't bond to their children like real mothers do.
I figured that such a physiological change would be necessary to create a society of "fuck-girls" because that society would have started its roots long before the creation of effective birth control.

Again, creative choices are yours to make. I just mentioned questions readers like myself would have floating in our heads and you should consider addressing sooner than later.

Still, thank you for the 5* that we both know I didn't deserve. And thank you for the advice

You got a 5 b/c you deserved a 5. Any defeatist thinking on your part (if it's legitimate) doesn't help your writing.

The mechanical advice/considerations I mentioned were specific easier fixes that could pay off some seriously efficient dividends.

Google KM Weiland "Are You Overusing Passive Verbs?" It's a good thought piece on verbs and helping your verb flow.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I tagged the story:

deepthroat, noncon, reluctance, blowjob, female dominant, high school, cum swallowing, male virgin, oral, public nudity

(because all of those are relevant tags).
But I was wondering if there were different common names for what I've created always in existence...? Anything that will help the intended readers find the story.

Your story is posted in "NonConsent/Reluctance". Tagging it "Noncon" and "Reluctance" on top of that is redundant - anybody who doesn't pay attention to category is extremely unlikely to be paying attention to tags. You only get ten tags so save them for something more informative.

You've tagged it as "female dominant". It would probably have been better to go with "femdom". They mean the same thing, but "femdom" is the more commonly used one on this site, and Literotica's search function is not capable of recognising that somebody who searches on "femdom" would also like to see stories tagged with "female dominant" (or any of the half-dozen other variations people have used). If you end up with unused tags from your allowance of ten, by all means list both versions. Anticipating the different possible forms for a tag can be tricky, but one option is to look at the tag cloud for relevant categories e.g. https://tags.literotica.com/bdsm-category-tags/ (note that the ten most used are hidden in a sidebar over to the right, not shown in the main cloud).

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

You might get more interest in the trangender/crossdressing category as that's where, I'd imagine most works designed to challenge gender expectations in a way that's not conventionally attractive would live.

 

[SimonDoom]

Another thought on tag use: In some cases it's better to use several redundant tags than to use tags that cover every erotic wrinkle that your story does. If I were you I would have alloted at least 4-5 tags for different variations of the main theme of the story, rather than using them to cover every single kinky aspect of the story. When I write a mom-son incest story I might use a variety of tags that cover the theme, like Mom, Son, Mom Son Incest, Mother Son, etc. That's what people are looking for. If they happen to have a blow job it doesn't mean that Blow Job necessarily is a great tag, because that's not the thing about the story that will drive primary interest.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

You might get more interest in the trangender/crossdressing category as that's where, I'd imagine most works designed to challenge gender expectations in a way that's not conventionally attractive would live.

That won't exactly work. Everyone within the story is cis, just in a world that expects different things from them. I feel like putting the story in T/C would be misleading.
Also, I specifically didn't include crossdressing, because it isn't a trope that appeals to me personally.

But most importantly, the How To guide on Categories specifically suggests that noncon stories stay in that category first and foremost, because it can be such a hot-button issues for some readers. (I know that guide isn't a rule of law or anything, but it made sense to me)

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Another thought on tag use: In some cases it's better to use several redundant tags than to use tags that cover every erotic wrinkle that your story does. If I were you I would have alloted at least 4-5 tags for different variations of the main theme of the story, rather than using them to cover every single kinky aspect of the story. When I write a mom-son incest story I might use a variety of tags that cover the theme, like Mom, Son, Mom Son Incest, Mother Son, etc. That's what people are looking for. If they happen to have a blow job it doesn't mean that Blow Job necessarily is a great tag, because that's not the thing about the story that will drive primary interest.

That seems entirely fair.
And it's the reason I asked the original question, because I didn't know what else to call a "story where society expects opposite roles from the sexes"
I called it "Female Dominant" but I didn't know what else to call it. So I just put a bunch of tags highlighting the singular sex act featured in the story. A "noncon-reluctant-oral-blowjob-featuring deepthroat"
Haha. And that was my problem.

 

[nice90sguy]

My hope was that there were already some sort of shorthand name for "an alternate universe where male and female societal roles are switched"

I've read a story here with that theme and iirc one of the tags was "female supremacy"

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I like that one. I'll probably use it in chapter 3

 

[SimonDoom]

When you select tags for your story, consider that tags serve primarily two purposes.

One purpose is to assist people in finding your story when they use tags to search for stories. To serve this purpose, a tag should be one that a real human being actually is likely to use in a search. If you write a story about a dental hygienist, you may be tempted to use "dental hygienist" as a tag. But is it likely that anyone is searching for erotic stories with that tag? Probably not (but you never know). Go to the tag page and look at the list of tags that are commonly associated with the category in which you will publish your story. That probably will give you the list of the tags that are most likely to be used (although AFAIK it's based on author selections rather than reader selections).

The second purpose is to assist readers who have clicked on your story to determine whether they actually want to read it to the end. Your tags should be a) sufficiently descriptive to let people know if they will or will not be likely to enjoy the story, and b) titillating and appealing, to attract readers. Select tags wisely, and choose them based on the main erotic interest of the story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

(although AFAIK it's based on author selections rather than reader selections).

I've not seen anywhere where readers can contribute to tags, and only the site sees the search data. It would be good if the site compiled lists of the latter (most commonly used search words), so we can tag what the readers are searching for.

There might be some kind of conglomeration going on, if authors use the high profile tags thinking, well maybe this brings traffic to my stories, sort of a natural selection, if you like; but as you say, it's an author's derived list, not a reader derived list.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've not seen anywhere where readers can contribute to tags, and only the site sees the search data. It would be good if the site compiled lists of the latter (most commonly used search words), so we can tag what the readers are searching for.

There might be some kind of conglomeration going on, if authors use the high profile tags thinking, well maybe this brings traffic to my stories, sort of a natural selection, if you like; but as you say, it's an author's derived list, not a reader derived list.

The tag page gives one a visual list of tags in which the most "popular" tags are larger than less popular ones. I assume this chart represents tags that are most popular in terms of being chosen by authors as opposed to those that are most searched-for by readers. The latter, obviously, would be the gold mine one would want to discover, but I don't think that's what it shows. I could be wrong.

Still, I think there's wisdom in crowds, and the relative selection of tags by crowds of authors is a semi-useful proxy for what readers probably use to search for stories.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Frankly, I would suggest that you don’t overthink this.

I’m not a big fan of or believer in tags as they exist here. Ten words or phrases - and forget ‘oral’ or ‘anal’ or anything one might find happening in suburbia. There are millions of other stories tagged with those already; they are of no use whatever to draw readers to your tale. The only tags worth including are those which set your tale apart from tens of thousands of others.

I see your point about ‘female supremacy’ and would suggest that future tales focus in that sort of tag. (To my mind, ‘femdom’ has a whole different meaning. One can have femdom in a completely patriarchal society.)

Good luck.

 

[yukonnights]

I use the tags available and which are somewhat connected to my story. However, I also usually include an 'Author's Introduction' where I can give a brief overview of the story. In that Intro, I also often include my own short list of tags that I craft specifically for the story. So, that gives me both; ready made and searchable Literotica tags and my own more focused tags to give a more applicable indicator of the story.