Epilogue/Postscript etc

[SimonDoom]

That's kind of what I have going on. It's like the last chapters of Lord of the Rings where you see everything that happened after the Frodo on the mountain scene.

Which I mention because it's been made fun of a few times:

Here's what I like about the Lord Of The Rings ending: it ends with Sam. He has the last word: "Well, I'm back." It underscores that in a way he is the real hero of the story--not Frodo, not Aragon, not Gandalf. He is the one ringbearer that was never corrupted. The humble gardener from the Shire has saved all of Middle Earth, and he just wants to return to his life in the Shire. It brings everything full circle, in a way that would not have happened if the story had been ended at another point.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Something like:
"My granddaughter was the first person to ever go to 'X'. That's a story for another time"

That seems like a less convoluted way to handle establishing the connection.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Epilogues and disclaimers are two different forms. Epilogues remain in the frame of the story--and can help explain or illuminate what happened but do so within the mood of the story and, as with the story, help the reader come to the understanding him/herself. Disclaimers jerk the reader out of the story and, in my view, detract from the story in most cases.

I mostly agree.

I have used epilogues in my serial stories to build the transition to the next story. Based upon comments, these "cliff-hangers" have been well received by the readers.

I have only used a postscript once, and that was because the events in the story were drawn from obscure, but true medical facts, and from a personal experience. The details helped change a fantasy into reality for many readers,

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Digging up this OLD thread rather than post a new one of the exact same title and topic...

So... Do I write this epilogue where I wrote it, put it in a different story in the series, write it as a whole story of it's own, or leave a reader hanging?

I'm writing a semi sci-fi story. Suspiciously human like Aliens land as refugees in the modern day and get into some silly erotic fun with the locals - the stories are about one such alien's romantic journey. There've been a lot of TV shows with this premise but they almost always take a dark turn with either the aliens up to no good or the humans abusing them or both. I wanted to instead take the premise and use it for erotic comedy - everybody likes the aliens, who are a little too horny for their own good.


Story 1: stuff happens - this story is heavy on 'setting backstory' so I'm likely to put it out as 'volume 3: the prelude'. Then an Epilogue explains how the series universe evolves over time (the transition from present day to a sci-fi future).

Story 2: stuff happens - the main 'story'. Then an Epilogue explains how the character's relationship evolves over time, and ends noting a descendant of one of the main characters who is to be the protagonist in Stories 4 and 5.

Story 3: stuff happens that is basically a 'non-sequitur' to the events of stories 1-2 + epilogue. But happens after story 2 and before the epilogue and involves the characters of story 2.

Story 4: stuff happens a century later with a grandchild to form a 'setup' for future drama
Story 5: that grandchild's main story.

All a setup so I can later write random episodic stories about the characters in Stories 2 and 3 that will not have much relation to each other. And sometimes when in the mood, jump forward and dip my toes into the 'future sci fi setting' of the story 5 character.

If this was a TV show, Stories 1-2 would be a series. Story 3 would be the holiday special where the cast does something outside the main plot. And Stories 4-5 are the spin-off. Story 4 having been the 'pilot' to get the network to buy the show.

Is that Epilogue for story 2 in the wrong place?
I'm debating whether or not I should put it after story 3.

- On the one hand, Story 3 is episodic and if I do write more, could easily be 'passed over' by a reader.
- On the other hand Story 3 takes place before Story 2's Epilogue, and will get posted at the same time.

Presently the "Epilogue" is 2,111 words out of a 19,080 word story. But it's in editing so those word counts could change.


(Currently I've written 1, 2, and 4, and am midway through 3 - then it all goes to editing, and story 5 will be written in the future).

The purpose of my Story 1 Epilogue is as a guide for the setting as a whole. It's that "world building" document.

The purpose of my Story 2 Epilogue however, it to be an outline for the life journey of my characters both as a guide to myself and for any reader for some reason ends up liking this stuff.

I have four stories that could provide you with an example of how I have used the story ending as a teaser for the next story in the series.

Story 1 ends with the father giving his car to his son.
Story 2 begins with the now grown son giving a girl he has just met a ride in the car. The story ends with the son receiving a call from his now grown sister, telling him that she has just shot a man.
Story 3 begins with the sister taking out a man preparing to shoot up a shopping mall. It ends with her fiance, who has always seen a mandorla aureola around her asking his best man what he thinks of the maid of honor. The best man says that she is nice, but does she always have that glow about her.
Story 4 Involves the best man and maid of honor from story 3.

 

[tenyari]

I have used epilogues in my serial stories to build the transition to the next story. Based upon comments, these "cliff-hangers" have been well received by the readers.

I'm actually trying to use them to for stories that are meant to be episodic (stand alone stories) and not serial.

To set up the world backdrop, into which I would later drop episodic stories that, other than volumes 1 and 2, could be read out of order without any major loss of context.

Volume 1 is basically an 'Alien First Contact' story.
Volume 2 is a the foundational romance for my main protagonist.

Story 3 is just a wild birthday party orgy story, as the dip into 'random glimpses into the protagonist's life'.


The 4-5 could easily have no connection at all, and weren't in my original plan. They're far future stories.

I may just delete the 2 sentences in my epilogue of the early stories that mentions the future stories, and instead drop it as a note in the future stories. Tie back rather than forward. Story 4 already mentions the history inside the story rather than in any prelude or epilogue, and story 5 could do so as well.


I think my 2 epilogues in Volume 1 and 2 - I will try to trim out anything that is 'story', putting those elements into the stories where they're still "useful to plot". And then leave the epilogues for anything that is still 'world building'.

But the little comedy video I linked from Lord of the Rings makes the point that a little story in the 'epilogue' can shift the importance of a character. As an 'epilogue' like element is used in Lord of the Rings to remind readers that they might have missed seeing who the real hero was.

So I'm still wavering over two different ways to handle it. Either way, my epilogue is probably too long. Though I did just finish reading a story with a much longer epilogue (9.8k word epilogue), so I'm not yet as extreme as I thought I was.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The epilogue to my Arthurian novel (The Dark Chronicles) was a neat, concise 980 words, a tenth of the one cited above by Tenyari. It wraps the story nicely.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I know there has been a lot of talks around prefaces, disclaimers and the like, but I have seen a few authors lately using epilogues or disclaimers almost at the end of their stories to good effect. I have a story I'm working on where two real-life things are included and both seem almost incredulous- a friend who had experienced infertility for over 10 years, had a child through IVF and then had their last embryo implanted and ended up with triplets- identical twins and a further baby, either initial embryo being from the one implanted or one formed by the couple around implantation. The doctor said to them that it was a 1:1,000,000 occurrence, but there is literature about it. The other was a colleague who went to have her IUD replaced but forgot to pick up the new one from the pharmacy to have it implanted so the doctor removed the old one and made an appointment for a few weeks time to implant the new one and she forgot about the appointment and having the initial IUD removed!

Perhaps if I include a disclaimer of sorts at the end of the work to explain what might otherwise seem incredulous might stop some of the comments focussing on the improbable, or even a general line at the end asking people to suspend disbelief in the improbable.

ANyway, just some random ramblings from me!

This is a much longer thread than I had expected. My own thoughts:

1, Don't overdo the disclaimers. If the reader doesn't get that Amish on cruise ships is satirical, they must be pretty dense.

2, If there is any chance that Lit's 18+ rule might be questioned by the mods, it is worth stating that all characters are over 18. It may help.

3.If the story is set in an earlier time period, it could be mentioned in the prologue - or near the top of the text. Somebody reminded me that if the narrator is looking back from a later era, it is worth mentioning that near the beginning too.

4. If the story is a sequel or a chapter in a series, it is worth linking back to the earlier works. For a series, the previous chapter will do. I once had so many links that I put them at the bottom.

5. Various things could be at the bottom. I have a habit of using real-life locations, so I may mention that they really existed as depicted for the time period. You may want to explain a couple of obscure references. ("Lehman" refers to Lehman College, "Wackenhut" refers to the company that provided security at the City University.) I may say that
"CUNY" is the City University of New York (a public college) while NYU is New York Univesity (a private school). If it's really critical for the story, then mention the distinction in the text.

You can't spoon-feed the readers everything. If they don't know what an Oldsmobile is, they can look it up. For a really old car company - Chandler, say - I described it in the text.

6. Big lapses in time probably should be described in the text. Changes in tone - just once I went from first-person to third-person - probably should be mentioned at the top. Changes in narrator, POV - it happens once in a while - should be mentioned at the top as well.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'll add this. In the case of a long, novel-length story, I can see the value in some cases of having an epilogue or postscript or whatever. Like with EB66's Arthurian story. That makes sense. But most of the time, I think if your story needs an epilogue it means the story could have been written better. In life, there aren't really any endings, other than death. Two people hook up, they have sex, maybe they get married. But it's not an ending. Life just goes on, with all its weirdness and unpredictability. I prefer to end my stories with a certain degree of open-endedness, leaving the reader to wonder what might happen in the future. I think that's how life really is. And as a matter of personal taste, I like a punchy ending, a clever last sentence, and you don't get that with an epilogue.

 

[KeithD]

I have only used a postscript once, and that was because the events in the story were drawn from obscure, but true medical facts, and from a personal experience. The details helped change a fantasy into reality for many readers,

Which I don't think is a goal for erotica.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

My Smoking Hot series has three short epilogues adding up to about 500 words, mostly because I had to stop somewhere but wanted to mention what happened after. They may get fleshed out into their own works eventually - I've already got 5000 words out of "That was how Gareth and Gaz - do not call either of them Gary: I swear that is their main thing in common sometimes - met each other."

A couple short notes at the end is OK, though most would be better at the beginning. I read a story yesterday which left me in the mood intended by the author, only then there was a really heavy-handed lecture for about 1500 words about consent and domination and submission, which had already been spelt out in every other line in the story. Really spoiled the moment.

Conversely, I've learned not to read the Introduction to any classic novel, as they invariably give away the plot.

 

[gunhilltrain]

My Smoking Hot series has three short epilogues adding up to about 500 words, mostly because I had to stop somewhere but wanted to mention what happened after. They may get fleshed out into their own works eventually - I've already got 5000 words out of "That was how Gareth and Gaz - do not call either of them Gary: I swear that is their main thing in common sometimes - met each other."

A couple short notes at the end is OK, though most would be better at the beginning. I read a story yesterday which left me in the mood intended by the author, only then there was a really heavy-handed lecture for about 1500 words about consent and domination and submission, which had already been spelt out in every other line in the story. Really spoiled the moment.

Conversely, I've learned not to read the Introduction to any classic novel, as they invariably give away the plot.

Of course, the introduction usually wasn't written by the original author, who assumed that readers would just get into it. I don't know what publishing companies insist on adding those things. A marketing device, perhaps? If there is really something significant to say about the author or his work, there are other places to find it.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

For the piece I just submitted, I listed pretty much every kink that gets explored in the disclaimer. Part of me hates spoiling the story, but knowing how picky readers get about encountering content outside the bounds of their own personal fetishes, I wanted to do everything I could to minimise indignant reactions.

 

[Lovecraft_Lore]

It is good to have epilogues. Otherwise people will want a follow up story. The follow up stories are normally not as good as the first time around. There are reasons why they never made ET 2 or an ET vs Predator movie.

 

[KeithD]

It is good to have epilogues. Otherwise people will want a follow up story. The follow up stories are normally not as good as the first time around. There are reasons why they never made ET 2 or an ET vs Predator movie.

I sometimes include epilogues. Readers still want follow up.

Construct the story you want. Don't continually try to guess what that mythical "universal" reader wants or they won't give you strokes.

 

[SimonDoom]

I sometimes include epilogues. Readers still want follow up.

Construct the story you want. Don't continually try to guess what that mythical "universal" reader wants or they won't give you strokes.

Yep. I tend to think the readership universe is a ravenous beast whose appetite cannot be sated, whatever one does. Don't worry about feeding the beast.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Which I don't think is a goal for erotica.

As always, I respect your opinion.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It is good to have epilogues. Otherwise people will want a follow up story. The follow up stories are normally not as good as the first time around. There are reasons why they never made ET 2 or an ET vs Predator movie.

If it is not explicitly a series, then they should expect that any follow-ups are at the author's discretion. If the author does intend to write a sequel or two (not new chapters per se), then it is all right to mention that at the bottom.

I've had sequels turn into a "series" without originally intending that. I even had a plausible conclusion, which is hard to do in any case. Since it didn't start as a series, everything had to be a stand-lone story with its own title. But I did tell readers what I was doing, and I did have links going back - to at least the previous story, and maybe to the original one too.

 

[KeithD]

As always, I respect your opinion.

I see the goal of erotica is to sexually arouse. I see nothing about clinical description or explanation as sexually arousing. I suppose there are those who do and hold off on the clinical explanation epilogue to have their orgasms.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I

I see the goal of erotica is to sexually arouse. I see nothing about clinical description or explanation as sexually arousing. I suppose there are those who do and hold off on the clinical explanation epilogue to have their orgasms.

I see the goal of erotica as to tell a story that also has explicit sex in it. Sort of like the story is already there, but the "good parts" are now clear to see. Stories about lousy sex are fine, and those are not going to be sexually arousing per se. Ever read Norman Mailer's "The Time of Her Time?" Is that erotica? It's certainly explicit, but the sex depicted is generally disappointing for the participants and the two protagonists are hardly sympathetic characters. So, then it's not erotica?

 

[KeithD]

I

I see the goal of erotica as to tell a story that also has explicit sex in it.

I don't see erotica needing to go to explicit sex. Sexual arousal completes the requirement to be erotica in my view. The issue here is what a clinical explanationepilogue would do to an erotica story. In my book it would kill the eroticism (while acknowledging that there probably are readers who won't orgasm until they get a clinical explanation.)

 

[tenyari]

It is good to have epilogues. Otherwise people will want a follow up story. The follow up stories are normally not as good as the first time around. There are reasons why they never made ET 2 or an ET vs Predator movie.

Well...
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...al-is-hollywood-really-going-to-make-a-sequel
https://www.cbr.com/why-et-sequel-never-made/
- The sequel was going to be somewhat a horror movie with war like aliens and abductions...

This last one reads so absurd it looks like it was a joke article:
https://themoderatevoice.com/spielberg-announces-e-t-sequel/
- Also so far I have been unable to find any other sources on this last one, whereas the first planned sequel is mentioned in a lot of places, but was canned really fast when somebody had the sense to say "WTF are you smoking homie?"

 

[tenyari]

I suspect that the long conclusion for me on this topic will be to keep most of my planned epilogue in-tact if only because it gives me the 'seed' to turn out sequels / series within a guideline I've pre-established... preventing me from making some fiasco where E.T. shows up with an AK-47 on the back of a dinosaur and shoots the guys at area 51, gives a vulcan hand gesture saying "peace out ese" while smoking a cigar and then flies off in a strangely Harley-like looking space space ship... Or whatever kind of madness those people who thought an E.T. sequel up were planning...

I have epilogues in two existing stories. One here and one elsewhere on the Internet. If I look at the one here it serves the purpose of letting me briefly switch narrator to another character, and then tell the future for that character's journey - but it also was a way I told readers in advance that I would not be doing any sequels.

The story on another site served a similar purpose, and in fact now 'gets in the way' of an incompatible sequel that keeps popping into my head. Which is probably for the better.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I don't see erotica needing to go to explicit sex. Sexual arousal completes the requirement to be erotica in my view. The issue here is what a clinical explanationepilogue would do to an erotica story. In my book it would kill the eroticism (while acknowledging that there probably are readers who won't orgasm until they get a clinical explanation.)

All right, I think I get what you mean. I think we're talking past each other in some way, but hey - that's the nature of online communications. Not that face-to-face discussions can't be misunderstood too.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I don't see erotica needing to go to explicit sex. Sexual arousal completes the requirement to be erotica in my view. The issue here is what a clinical explanationepilogue would do to an erotica story. In my book it would kill the eroticism (while acknowledging that there probably are readers who won't orgasm until they get a clinical explanation.)

I'm finally getting what you're talking about, I think. One thing that makes a story erotic is that the protagonists (probably a couple, but not necessarily so) relate to each other in some way - which could vary a lot in the details. I have one story in which the two people don't get along, but I can't say if it's truly erotic or not.

Since I mentioned Norman Mailer, I would say his story is not erotic (although explicit) and he seemed to intend it to be that way. Basically, his two characters can't stand each other, plus it's a rather implausible plot too. It's short and it's online if you wish to read it.

The Time of Her Time

 

[gunhilltrain]

I suspect that the long conclusion for me on this topic will be to keep most of my planned epilogue in-tact if only because it gives me the 'seed' to turn out sequels / series within a guideline I've pre-established... preventing me from making some fiasco where E.T. shows up with an AK-47 on the back of a dinosaur and shoots the guys at area 51, gives a vulcan hand gesture saying "peace out ese" while smoking a cigar and then flies off in a strangely Harley-like looking space space ship... Or whatever kind of madness those people who thought an E.T. sequel up were planning...

I have epilogues in two existing stories. One here and one elsewhere on the Internet. If I look at the one here it serves the purpose of letting me briefly switch narrator to another character, and then tell the future for that character's journey - but it also was a way I told readers in advance that I would not be doing any sequels.

The story on another site served a similar purpose, and in fact now 'gets in the way' of an incompatible sequel that keeps popping into my head. Which is probably for the better.

That E.T. idea is weird but I wouldn't call it a fiasco. It has an interesting satirical edge if one takes it tongue in cheek. Not necessarily as a sequel, but as a story in itself. It's a send-up of various science-fiction tropes.