Writing Male Characters

[MsNatalie99]

I struggle with writng men, more specifically masculine men. I've written women, not in erotica, and it was well recieved. I've never even kissed a girl IRL, so describing hetero sex from either side not so much. I've never been the masculine type, drinking beer, punching bears, and never ever crying. I don't beat my chest, I cry if a man yells at me, I shop in the ladies section, and have no real idea how to write the real archetype man. I'm not saying I'm more of a woman, because I've never been that either, but I'm definitely not manly.

I've been told it's easy to write the male perspective, but when it comes to things like how two men interact outside of sex, I lack confidance. It's been my experience that men are much stronger and more sensitive then what the stories I've read suggest. However, whenever I incorperate this into a masculine character, I catch a lot of blow back. I wrote a story (fan fic) about Captain Marvel (the origional), describing the lonliness he felt, and the fear from his cancer diagnosis, and I was accused of writing him gay. This was a sex free story, so... I don't know.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Cant rite man, fake women. Evar thot you mite just be bad at riting?.

Blocked. Can't*, write* (x2), ever*, thought*, might*, so I could be worse.

 

[SimonDoom]

Take, e.g., Donna Tartt, best-selling author and Pulitzer-Prize winner, and her critically acclaimed debut novel "The Secret History." The book's first-person narrator is ostensibly a young male, named Richard Papen, from Plano, California, but at no point did he ever convince me of being genuinely male; the longer the story lasted, the less male he appeared to me. His thinking as well as his actions (or rather inactions) did never strike me as particularly male, though not really female either, but rather some crude kind of inconsistent mix-up.

I read The Secret History and I also read The Goldfinch. Both are stories told in the first person POV by a young man who is morally lacking. It's interesting that Tartt wants to tell a story from this POV. I sort of agree with your point because, while I recognize that Tartt has talent and both of these books are interesting, there's something missing in both of the main POV characters. I wasn't fully convinced by either one of them. I wonder how Tartt would do writing a story from the point of view of a woman character.

 

[AlinaX]

I struggle with writng men, more specifically masculine men. I've written women, not in erotica, and it was well recieved. I've never even kissed a girl IRL, so describing hetero sex from either side not so much. I've never been the masculine type, drinking beer, punching bears, and never ever crying. I don't beat my chest, I cry if a man yells at me, I shop in the ladies section, and have no real idea how to write the real archetype man. I'm not saying I'm more of a woman, because I've never been that either, but I'm definitely not manly.

I've been told it's easy to write the male perspective, but when it comes to things like how two men interact outside of sex, I lack confidance. It's been my experience that men are much stronger and more sensitive then what the stories I've read suggest. However, whenever I incorperate this into a masculine character, I catch a lot of blow back. I wrote a story (fan fic) about Captain Marvel (the origional), describing the lonliness he felt, and the fear from his cancer diagnosis, and I was accused of writing him gay. This was a sex free story, so... I don't know.

Fundamental to men is a denial and fear of weakness. Easier to be angry than admit vulnerability. To be openly emotional is to risk being seen as unmanly and probably gay.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

I just posted this as a thread, but maybe it might be appropriate to post it here as this seems a serious discussion. The short answer is “in a normal situation, just a little because I think I understand the person” but in sexual situations “yes.”

So here is what i posted. It relates to both men and women.

Hello, i am new as of yesterday and trying to figure out if there is a niche fo me here. I write so i know what good writing is. I have also been told I am a good roleplayer, and I enjoy it. I am looking around and randomly reading things of other authors, good and not so. I even looked a bit into the archives/old things from the early 2000s.

i have been interested for a long time in whether men can write really convincing female characters, especially as regard to sex and sexual issues and vice versa. i have read female authors who write sex scenes for their books (not talking about romance novels or evident “mommyporn” where the guy is ”perfect in every way here”) and also at least one who is quite famous for her classic literotica. They seem “realistic” to me. But i am female, as are the authors. However, Charles Dickens immediately identified George Eliot as female by her writing, so i don’t know.

I found several astonishingly good male authors here; however, I am not sure some really “get” the female psyche despite my hopes when I started reading because they definitely showed writing skill. From my perspective as female, women do absolutely not need the missionary position and a permanent cuddling set-up to revel in sex or to enjoy reading it. On the other hand, I wonder if many women really identify with characters who become wildly excited (maybe a little) by being banged on by men who say they love them while going at sex as if they were engaging in it alone and who periodically manage to ask them breathlessly in midbang if they are enjoying it. Am I wrong about this? Is it just the writers I happened to see? Again, these are good writers in many other respects.

Is this a hopeless situation? Do you think that men and women are so hopelessly different that neither can write realistic reactions for the other in the grip of sexual interaction? Are there writers anyone has found who do seem to get it, women who can write realistic men or men who can write realistic women in extremis?

Thanks for being patient with this new person who would like to learn. I turned in a couple of “prologues” last night to test the water, but then I read here that people are waiting months for their writing to be evaluated (No criticism…I understand).

 

[NotWise]

I just posted this as a thread, but maybe it might be appropriate to post it here as this seems a serious discussion. The short answer is “in a normal situation, just a little because I think I understand the person” but in sexual situations “yes.”

So here is what i posted. It relates to both men and women.

Hello, i am new as of yesterday and trying to figure out if there is a niche fo me here. I write so i know what good writing is. I have also been told I am a good roleplayer, and I enjoy it. I am looking around and randomly reading things of other authors, good and not so. I even looked a bit into the archives/old things from the early 2000s.

i have been interested for a long time in whether men can write really convincing female characters, especially as regard to sex and sexual issues and vice versa. i have read female authors who write sex scenes for their books (not talking about romance novels or evident “mommyporn” where the guy is ”perfect in every way here”) and also at least one who is quite famous for her classic literotica. They seem “realistic” to me. But i am female, as are the authors. However, Charles Dickens immediately identified George Eliot as female by her writing, so i don’t know.

I found several astonishingly good male authors here; however, I am not sure some really “get” the female psyche despite my hopes when I started reading because they definitely showed writing skill. From my perspective as female, women do absolutely not need the missionary position and a permanent cuddling set-up to revel in sex or to enjoy reading it. On the other hand, I wonder if many women really identify with characters who become wildly excited (maybe a little) by being banged on by men who say they love them while going at sex as if they were engaging in it alone and who periodically manage to ask them breathlessly in midbang if they are enjoying it. Am I wrong about this? Is it just the writers I happened to see? Again, these are good writers in many other respects.

Is this a hopeless situation? Do you think that men and women are so hopelessly different that neither can write realistic reactions for the other in the grip of sexual interaction? Are there writers anyone has found who do seem to get it, women who can write realistic men or men who can write realistic women in extremis?

Thanks for being patient with this new person who would like to learn. I turned in a couple of “prologues” last night to test the water, but then I read here that people are waiting months for their writing to be evaluated (No criticism…I understand).

We had a writers event this last winter (The Pink Orchid Event, linked here) hosted by Omenainen with the goal of writing erotica with realistic female characters. Several men participated.

You can read and judge for yourself. I think it was a challenge that some men may not have understood, much less succeed at.

I can't address the question of women writing men.

 

[Auden James]

I sort of agree with your point because, while I recognize that Tartt has talent and both of these books are interesting, there's something missing in both of the main POV characters. I wasn't fully convinced by either one of them.

Interesting that you've come to the same conclusion with regard to her—supposedly—male characters as I did!

Did you, by any chance, also read Easton Ellis's Rules of Attraction?

I'd like to know if other readers also found the author's portrayals of his female characters as convincing as I did.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

I am male and writing from a male point of view at the moment. I find it difficult to articulate the depth of the character even though I fully understand it. The reason for this is that I fundamentally disagree with many of the above comments about men being more black and white, rather than having their bands of grey.

I hope what people mean by this is that men typically appear black and white because of how they behave, what they _don't_ say etc. But the reality is that men are just as complex. These complexities often just aren't apparent at first glance. Finding a way to narrate in a male voice, showing but not saying the complex thoughts is more difficult than for a female character who easily narrates feelings, thoughts and concerns.

Do you think guys ever talk to each other when females are not present about their relationships. Females talk about almost nothing else when guys are not around (and often when they are), but guys, being human also, it is hard to believe that they NEVER do.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Do you think guys ever talk to each other when females are not present about their relationships. Females talk about almost nothing else when guys are not around (and often when they are), but guys, being human also, it is hard to believe that they NEVER do.

They do, but many men are raised to show less emotion, vulnerabilities/insecurities, being taught they're a sign of weakness. My stepdad would beat my ass if I cried, said I was lonely or depressed, and don't get me started about the gay.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

My nephew apologized to me because he cried when his grandpa (whom he adored) died. He was in his teens. It made me so sad. Since I tend to cry when animals die in movies, I do not know how guys do it.

 

[NotWise]

Do you think guys ever talk to each other when females are not present about their relationships. Females talk about almost nothing else when guys are not around (and often when they are), but guys, being human also, it is hard to believe that they NEVER do.

They do. Especially, good friends will talk to each other about their relationships.

There are other times, too. I used to get my hair cut at an old barbershop where family life was always the main topic of conversation. Guys would talk about nothing but their wives and kids.

In my experience, women talk more about sex than men do.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

My nephew apologized to me because he cried when his grandpa (whom he adored) died. He was in his teens. It made me so sad. Since I tend to cry when animals die in movies, I do not know how guys do it.

How might one of those conversations go between friends?

 

[NoJo]

Men are basically one-dimensional. At least until you get to the balls.

As a man, I concur. Now drop your panties

 

[Auden James]

Since I tend to cry when animals die in movies, I do not know how guys do it.

The lacrimal sac in women is typically smaller than in men, which is why it is typically much easier for women to start crying than for men (even if the latter wanted to).

 

[Seadog777]

Do you think guys ever talk to each other when females are not present about their relationships. Females talk about almost nothing else when guys are not around (and often when they are), but guys, being human also, it is hard to believe that they NEVER do.

I personally, never say anything to anybody, that I wouldn't say to my wife.
I know guys that talk more than their frakking wives or girlfriends, when they're not around them. LOL.

 

[lovecraft68]

They do. Especially, good friends will talk to each other about their relationships.

There are other times, too. I used to get my hair cut at an old barbershop where family life was always the main topic of conversation. Guys would talk about nothing but their wives and kids.

In my experience, women talk more about sex than men do.

I think you're right in that women talk about actual sex more than men, as in the sex they have and whether they want more or different or are happy etc

What men do is the 'locker room' talk about all the wild nasty things they've done, most of which is cool story bro lie, or want to do, but could never handle. Perfect example is the guy talking about getting the girl who gives world class head, then if they find her wondering where she learned to do it, and getting insecure. That doesn't apply to guys who are into one night things or pay for sex, I'm talking the married or looking for a relationship type.

 

[AlinaX]

As a man, I concur. Now drop your panties

Meh. Pay me, and I'll think about it.

 

[NoJo]

In the context of porn, a believable male character is probably a liability.

 

[NotWise]

How might one of those conversations go between friends?

Usually with respect for the woman/women -- as long as you're talking about relationships and not just about sex.

My story for the Pink Orchid Event ("No Brand on My Pony") includes a pivotal dinner conversation between two men, in which the main topic is a woman they both have interests in -- different interests, but interests just the same. Those men weren't friends.

 

[SimonDoom]

Interesting that you've come to the same conclusion with regard to her—supposedly—male characters as I did!

Did you, by any chance, also read Easton Ellis's Rules of Attraction?

I'd like to know if other readers also found the author's portrayals of his female characters as convincing as I did.

I didn't read that one, but I read American Psycho, also about a psychologically stunted and completely amoral man. But I took the AP male character to be a metaphor, part of the novel's critique of 80s capitalist culture.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Do you think guys ever talk to each other when females are not present about their relationships. Females talk about almost nothing else when guys are not around (and often when they are), but guys, being human also, it is hard to believe that they NEVER do.

[Gross generalization alert]

We do, but less and differently from women, as far as I can make out. The thing is men, by and large, do not find talking about their issues thereputic. If I have a bad day at work, I go home, boot up my XBox and kill some zombies until I've forgotten about it - if my wife has a bad day at work, you can bet I'm hearing about it in the car on the way home. We also, by and large, don't like listening to other people's problems unless we can see a point or can help in some way. Men are also sensative about being seen as whiny or weak, so we're also careful about what or how much we say about our relationship. We might complain about a particular aspect of a relationship, but only if we can spin it into an entertaining story or joke (and this allows others to jump in and tell their own war stories). If I can't join in the weekly male activity because my wife has booked me for some alternative activity, I might suffer some light ribbing for it.

Single men, of course, talk about where the ladies are and how to attract them all the time. And, once someone is in a new relationship, we're happy to talk a reasonable amount about how it's going - not least of all because she's probably got available friends.

Occassionally, of course, someone might be interested in genuine advice (whether to move in together, whether to spend money on taking on her on holiday, in-law troubles) and there may be a genuine converstation about the pros and cons. Similarly, very occassionally, someone might be genuinely concerned about someone else and try to have a quiet word with them.

 

[SimonDoom]

Do you think guys ever talk to each other when females are not present about their relationships. Females talk about almost nothing else when guys are not around (and often when they are), but guys, being human also, it is hard to believe that they NEVER do.

Sometimes we do, but not nearly as much as women do, I think.

When I am with my male friends, we spend much more time talking about sports, or current events, or hobbies, or the latest gadget, or politics, or ideas, than we do talking about our relationships with women. I have found that initiating a discussion about a relationship is often greeted with indifference or discomfort.

I have mixed feelings about that. Sometimes I feel I'd like to talk more about relationships. And other times I feel glad it's just a thing between myself and my partner, and I'd just as soon talk about a sporting event with the guys.

I remember once talking to a girlfriend, and I passed on to her one of those aphorisms I picked up from random crap I read. It was something like, "Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people." And my girlfriend (who was and is a very intellectually and emotionally intelligent person) said, "My girlfriends and I spend most of our time talking about people."

I think guys are different. But better? Hell if I know.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

It depends. In a group I would say that is true. i guarantee you are high on the list of topics. Children also if anyone has them. One on one with a friend is not the same unless we are trying to work out an actual issue with an SO or family. If not, it could be about anything on your “male“ list…or that is my experience. We share our relationship problems for both sympathy AND advice because many of us are cooperative problem solvers.

Okay, because it will likely be a couple of months, here is a short excerpt. These two guys are friends and often co-conspirators. Real or fake?



“What is wrong with you, anyway?” guy 1 stood in the doorway leaning on the doorjamb. “I thought you were going to find me yesterday, you said, and then when I asked after you no one had seen you.”

“I do not need a nursemaid.” It was not easy keeping it from sounding like a growl.

“I know. But what happened?”

“Go away or come in. Don’t stand in the door to pry into my affairs.”

Guy 1 laughed. Guy 2 did not.

“Very well then.” Guy 1 stepped inside and closed the door. “So now may I pry into your affairs?” He sat down on the edge of the bed.

“Your sister. There is something wrong with her.” [they have all grown up together and Guy 2, protagonist prince, has become interested in her in a different way. There is more but it is too complicated to be pertinent. She is suddenly cooling it for a reason he has not been told.]

Guy 1 shrugged. “Female.” He continued. “Could it possibly have anything to do with the fact that you were obligingly molested in the hall by a certain female an evening or so ago?”

Guy 2 shook his head. “Before that. And anyway I doubt she knows.”

“Her moon time. Females go off at nothing then.”

Guy 2 frowned. “‘Nothing’ so she says.”

“That’s it for sure then. Don’t worry about it.”

“I am not worried. It is just confusing. Females say ‘nothing’ also when whatever you have done is terrible, and they do not want to tell you.” He made a face. “Everyone does it if you are royal.”

“Shall I try to find out?”

“If you do, i will have to kill you. No.”

Guy 1 chuckled. “Give it a week or two. It will pass. It must be her time. Are you in the tournament?”

“Hm.” guy 2 took a moment as if evaluating the explanation before answering. Then he shot guy 1 a mischievous glance. “Of course. I could not sit out with such, um, Desirable guests. It would be rude. Are you?”

 

[MsNatalie99]

It depends. In a group I would say that is true. i guarantee you are high on the list of topics. Children also if anyone has them. One on one with a friend is not the same unless we are trying to work out an actual issue with an SO or family. If not, it could be about anything on your “male“ list…or that is my experience. We share our relationship problems for both sympathy AND advice because many of us are cooperative problem solvers.

Okay, because it will likely be a couple of months, here is a short excerpt. These two guys are friends and often co-conspirators. Real or fake?



“What is wrong with you, anyway?” guy 1 stood in the doorway leaning on the doorjamb. “I thought you were going to find me yesterday, you said, and then when I asked after you no one had seen you.”

“I do not need a nursemaid.” It was not easy keeping it from sounding like a growl.

“I know. But what happened?”

“Go away or come in. Don’t stand in the door to pry into my affairs.”

Guy 1 laughed. Guy 2 did not.

“Very well then.” Guy 1 stepped inside and closed the door. “So now may I pry into your affairs?” He sat down on the edge of the bed.

“Your sister. There is something wrong with her.” [they have all grown up together and Guy 2, protagonist prince, has become interested in her in a different way. There is more but it is too complicated to be pertinent. She is suddenly cooling it for a reason he has not been told.]

Guy 1 shrugged. “Female.” He continued. “Could it possibly have anything to do with the fact that you were obligingly molested in the hall by a certain female an evening or so ago?”

Guy 2 shook his head. “Before that. And anyway I doubt she knows.”

“Her moon time. Females go off at nothing then.”

Guy 2 frowned. “‘Nothing’ so she says.”

“That’s it for sure then. Don’t worry about it.”

“I am not worried. It is just confusing. Females say ‘nothing’ also when whatever you have done is terrible, and they do not want to tell you.” He made a face. “Everyone does it if you are royal.”

“Shall I try to find out?”

“If you do, i will have to kill you. No.”

Guy 1 chuckled. “Give it a week or two. It will pass. It must be her time. Are you in the tournament?”

“Hm.” guy 2 took a moment as if evaluating the explanation before answering. Then he shot guy 1 a mischievous glance. “Of course. I could not sit out with such, um, Desirable guests. It would be rude. Are you?”

I guess it just depends on the guys. I don't know many who use that kinda language, but I'm not sure if it's a difference in region and education. I know guys who would speak in that context, substituting Females for girl's or women, or half a dozen others. Also on how close they are. Many guys I know would beat my ass for referencing their SOs cycle like that.

 

[MsNatalie99]

I guess it just depends on the guys. I don't know many who use that kinda language, but I'm not sure if it's a difference in region and education. I know guys who would speak in that context, substituting Females for girl's or women, or half a dozen others. Also on how close they are. Many guys I know would beat my ass for referencing their SOs cycle like that.

Also, take most of what I say with a grain of salt. I don't hang around a lot of straight men, so most of what I know, I learned from my brother.