"Pro-lifers" are not

[IsItBad]

I am not here quibbling over the definition of "life." Rather, I am convinced that practically nobody in America is sincerely "pro-life" in the sense that term is used in political discourse. Nobody who contests the abortion issue really gives a rat's ass for the life of any fetus. It only remains alive as a culture-war issue to fight -- a position to hold as long as possible before falling back. The abortion issue would have faded away long ago if it were not associated with the whole package of social/religious conservatism. Before the 1970s, American Protestants largely ignored abortion, which they dismissed as a Catholic issue -- but then conservative Catholics and Protestants formed an unprecedented alliance, which has more or less held together ever since. That is remarkable, considering the history of Protestant anti-Catholicism in America (even now, there are Protestants of the Jack Chick stamp who are convinced all Catholics go to Hell).

While everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion: to the contrary I and many people I know are completely concerned about the sanctity of babies from conception on. The idea of reaching in their and cutting a live baby apart to drag out piece by piece or injecting it with something that is torturously painful to kill it is far far beyond the societal norms for what should be tolerable or acceptable. It is actually very disturbing just as is the fact that while everyone clamors about killing the inconvenient baby no one ever discusses the lifelong trauma experienced by the mother. Many women dream off and on for the rest of their life about their murdered baby. People just don't want to be bothered with that inconvenient reality. And lastly.....which IS part of the political realm.....there are a great many in this country both religious and not who feel certain that they do NOT want to be complicit with the deaths of multitude of babies because they have allowed it to become normalized in this country. As a nation, we were meant to be better than that. Yes, some women have always and will always seek ways to kill their baby.....and that was on them until we are a country decided to make it law in 1973. Since then the blood of those 70+ million babies is on ALL of our hands and we will ALL answer for it one day.

 

[adrina]

^^^ This bullshit is why I call you anti abortion fanatics hysterical.

 

[ll74]

Shut up and apologize, you ignorant dunce. I just proved you to be wrong. Take your self-serving invented definition of "precedent" and shove it up your keester.

No, you didn't do anything except continue to minimize the reversal. Precedent has only been reversed 145 times.....you just don't understand what it means and since you agree with this ruling, you don't care

You'll see where this goes and ignore it...because you're a fuckhead.

 

[Comshaw]

While everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion: to the contrary I and many people I know are completely concerned about the sanctity of babies from conception on. The idea of reaching in their and cutting a live baby apart to drag out piece by piece or injecting it with something that is torturously painful to kill it is far far beyond the societal norms for what should be tolerable or acceptable. It is actually very disturbing just as is the fact that while everyone clamors about killing the inconvenient baby no one ever discusses the lifelong trauma experienced by the mother. Many women dream off and on for the rest of their life about their murdered baby. People just don't want to be bothered with that inconvenient reality. And lastly.....which IS part of the political realm.....there are a great many in this country both religious and not who feel certain that they do NOT want to be complicit with the deaths of multitude of babies because they have allowed it to become normalized in this country. As a nation, we were meant to be better than that. Yes, some women have always and will always seek ways to kill their baby.....and that was on them until we are a country decided to make it law in 1973. Since then the blood of those 70+ million babies is on ALL of our hands and we will ALL answer for it one day.

questions and comments:

Calling a blastula, a fetus a baby is like calling a sperm or an egg by the same name. While all four of those mentioned will eventually be a whole human, none of them, as they are, are. Is that why those who support doing away with abortion also support doing away with contraception? Because they view the egg and the sperm the same way they do a birthed and fully formed baby? If that is true, since all of those I mentioned above are only a collection of cells, not an independent fully formed life form, will they also pass laws about things we do that kill cells in our bodies? How about masturbation? Or how about a woman's menstrual cycle? Are we going to jail them for destroying an egg, a potential baby?

Who am I, as a supporter of pro-choice, going to answer to? A magic man in the sky? Since I do not believe in a deity, for me that is a moot point. In other words, ain't gunna' happen, 'cause there isn't any such thing as a "God". In the animal kingdom, spontaneous miscarriages of the unborn (self inducted abortions if you will) in times of food shortages and other naturally occurring pressures on a population is very common. If you believe in such things, why did your "God" design and institute such things if it was against his-her-its rules? I suppose you can argue that animals and humans are treated differently in your deities eyes, but then you get into the area of belief, something that requires no proof other than your own insistence that it is real and true.

Since 70% of the population support abortion at some level, your claim of "a great many" (by which I assume you mean a majority) do not at any stage, is factually incorrect, or an outright fabrication.


Comshaw

 

[IsItBad]

questions and comments:

Calling a blastula, a fetus a baby is like calling a sperm or an egg by the same name. While all four of those mentioned will eventually be a whole human, none of them, as they are, are. Is that why those who support doing away with abortion also support doing away with contraception? Because they view the egg and the sperm the same way they do a birthed and fully formed baby? If that is true, since all of those I mentioned above are only a collection of cells, not an independent fully formed life form, will they also pass laws about things we do that kill cells in our bodies? How about masturbation? Or how about a woman's menstrual cycle? Are we going to jail them for destroying an egg, a potential baby?

Who am I, as a supporter of pro-choice, going to answer to? A magic man in the sky? Since I do not believe in a deity, for me that is a moot point. In other words, ain't gunna' happen, 'cause there isn't any such thing as a "God". In the animal kingdom, spontaneous miscarriages of the unborn (self inducted abortions if you will) in times of food shortages and other naturally occurring pressures on a population is very common. If you believe in such things, why did your "God" design and institute such things if it was against his-her-its rules? I suppose you can argue that animals and humans are treated differently in your deities eyes, but then you get into the area of belief, something that requires no proof other than your own insistence that it is real and true.

Since 70% of the population support abortion at some level, your claim of "a great many" (by which I assume you mean a majority) do not at any stage, is factually incorrect, or an outright fabrication.


Comshaw

of course you are certainly able to believe whatever you want to. God is God and everything that is, was, or will be is subject to God. You are free to live your life however you want to and you are free to die and spend eternity in hell if you make it to death continuing to reject God. It is not a threat or even meant to be mean because Jesus did not come to this world to live a perfect life and die on the cross and arise from the dead so people could be beat over the head with the bible but rather so people could have peace and knowledge that there is a away for their sinful life to be redeemed. Even having said all of that, there is simply the matter of fact of biology....you may choose to believe that a baby in the womb is some blob of tissue and cells but you were created by your parents and formed in your mama's belly and were quite well developed by 12 weeks from conception. It is alot more convenient, tho, if you want to advocate for killing babies to think of them as cells and blobs. The fact is we have murdered enough babies to populate a small country and it is and always has been completely wrong. It would be equally justifiable to just legalize murdering people who are inconvenient to you sort of like the clintons do. Why not just legalize that and just let everyone kill whoever irritates them? It makes exactly as much sense as murdering babies except for the fact that an adult person can actually fight back.

 

[ll74]

Abortion doesn't involve babies

 

[adrina]

I think a better possible title for this thread is "pro-lifers are nuts".

 

[Comshaw]

of course you are certainly able to believe whatever you want to. God is God and everything that is, was, or will be is subject to God. You are free to live your life however you want to and you are free to die and spend eternity in hell if you make it to death continuing to reject God. It is not a threat or even meant to be mean because Jesus did not come to this world to live a perfect life and die on the cross and arise from the dead so people could be beat over the head with the bible but rather so people could have peace and knowledge that there is a away for their sinful life to be redeemed. Even having said all of that, there is simply the matter of fact of biology....you may choose to believe that a baby in the womb is some blob of tissue and cells but you were created by your parents and formed in your mama's belly and were quite well developed by 12 weeks from conception. It is alot more convenient, tho, if you want to advocate for killing babies to think of them as cells and blobs. The fact is we have murdered enough babies to populate a small country and it is and always has been completely wrong. It would be equally justifiable to just legalize murdering people who are inconvenient to you sort of like the clintons do. Why not just legalize that and just let everyone kill whoever irritates them? It makes exactly as much sense as murdering babies except for the fact that an adult person can actually fight back.

Hmmmm...."...you are free to die and spend eternity in hell if you make it to death continuing to reject God." So which god is that exactly? There are so many and each religious sect claims they have the real one and EVERYONE else is going to hell. Funny that he and god junior (the two you speak of) didn't show up until a couple of thousand years ago, even though humans have been around a lot longer than that. As far as the concept of a deity, I neither oppose it nor wish to destroy the use by others, UNLESS it becomes a danger to those who do not believe it that particular fantasy. Then I will step up and oppose it. Yep curiouser and curiouser.

Be that as it may, I will reiterate, 70% of the population of the U.S. support abortion at some stage. You are in the minority, but insist that you should be able to impose your views and edicts on the entire population. You do know what that's called don't you? If not, please educate yourself.
View attachment 2148435


Your argument would be, not credible by any means, but at least more sane if you hadn't gone off the deep edge, as in: "It would be equally justifiable to just legalize murdering people who are inconvenient to you sort of like the clintons do." Unsubstantiated, unverified, unproven, Qanon conspiracy horseshit of the first order. Why in the world should anyone take you seriously if you insist on spouting such idiotic drivel?

Since I can't argue with a belief, because it has no basis in fact or reality, I'm done.

Comshaw

 

[MetalRabbit51]

It is about a belief, isn't it? This belief that a group of people, largely but not exclusively conservative Christians, have that life begins at conception. A full human life, so in their view at conception there's a person growing in, and taking its entire sustenance from, another person. And due to this belief they have, this group has worked to eliminate access to abortion for all Americans. Somehow their beliefs also extend to the abolition of birth control methods. What's the justification? That birth control methods contradict God's law? Not sure. In any case, birth control is also on the chopping block. For all women, not just "pro-lifers", not just Christians. It's amazing how a minority group in this country believes they are right to force the rest of us to act as they do, to the point of compelling women who do not wish to be pregnant to host the pregnancy until birth, against her will. And it's way more disturbing to me that this group has the ability to compel the US Government to force their will on the rest of us in these matters.

 

[nowisthetime]

Let us keep in mind how many of them attempted to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, which has been saving so many AMERICAN (you know how they scream about being pro-American) lives.

 

[pecksniff]

It would be equally justifiable to just legalize murdering people who are inconvenient to you sort of like the clintons do.

As if we needed more proof of your idiocy.

 

[phrodeau]

of course you are certainly able to believe whatever you want to. God is God and everything that is, was, or will be is subject to God. You are free to live your life however you want to and you are free to die and spend eternity in hell if you make it to death continuing to reject God. It is not a threat or even meant to be mean because Jesus did not come to this world to live a perfect life and die on the cross and arise from the dead so people could be beat over the head with the bible but rather so people could have peace and knowledge that there is a away for their sinful life to be redeemed. Even having said all of that, there is simply the matter of fact of biology....you may choose to believe that a baby in the womb is some blob of tissue and cells but you were created by your parents and formed in your mama's belly and were quite well developed by 12 weeks from conception. It is alot more convenient, tho, if you want to advocate for killing babies to think of them as cells and blobs. The fact is we have murdered enough babies to populate a small country and it is and always has been completely wrong. It would be equally justifiable to just legalize murdering people who are inconvenient to you sort of like the clintons do. Why not just legalize that and just let everyone kill whoever irritates them? It makes exactly as much sense as murdering babies except for the fact that an adult person can actually fight back.

God makes rape and incest produce babies. Stupid God.

 

[Sean Renaud]

He's not stupid. I've been told when God gives you lemons, make lemonade. When he give you vegetables, make oil. If he gives you gators or babies. . .figure it out.

Also are we sure coconuts aren't mammals? They have hair and produce milk and I'm told those are the prerequisites.

 

[phrodeau]

He's not stupid. I've been told when God gives you lemons, make lemonade. When he give you vegetables, make oil. If he gives you gators or babies. . .figure it out.

Also are we sure coconuts aren't mammals? They have hair and produce milk and I'm told those are the prerequisites.

That’s not milk. They’re testicles.

 

[pecksniff]

Four pages and I see no reason to doubt my assertion in the OP: "Pro-lifers" do not really care about the fetus.

 

[Rotadom]

View attachment 2150112

 

[discreetman2019]

If it was really about ‘life’ these bastards wouldn’t shoot down any legislation that would be beneficial to young families.

The Republicans platform is too bankrupt education so the electorate is too f’n stupid to think critically. And then keeping uneducated whites pumping out replacement voters.

 

[discreetman2019]

View attachment 2150112

Republicans love Old Testament god smiting the wicked… they’re really not fully on board with Jesus’ message of love unless it includes adultery with your neighbors wife.

 

[discreetman2019]

It is about a belief, isn't it? This belief that a group of people, largely but not exclusively conservative Christians, have that life begins at conception. A full human life, so in their view at conception there's a person growing in, and taking its entire sustenance from, another person. And due to this belief they have, this group has worked to eliminate access to abortion for all Americans. Somehow their beliefs also extend to the abolition of birth control methods. What's the justification? That birth control methods contradict God's law? Not sure. In any case, birth control is also on the chopping block. For all women, not just "pro-lifers", not just Christians. It's amazing how a minority group in this country believes they are right to force the rest of us to act as they do, to the point of compelling women who do not wish to be pregnant to host the pregnancy until birth, against her will. And it's way more disturbing to me that this group has the ability to compel the US Government to force their will on the rest of us in these matters.

It like the old biddies that brought on prohibition because some men drank too much and were mean drunks therefore no one could legally drink.

These f-wads are going to find out quickly if they abolish abortion rights and take birth control away that religion isnt as powerful to many people as they believe. These fuckers want Old Testament god and basically their the American Taliban. Just like the Taliban they want to make women subservient to men. Probably because their loser incel boys couldn’t get laid in a brothel.

The next thing they are going to do is make it illegal for a woman to get an education. Anyone that doesn’t believe that’s part of their agenda is a f’n idiot. They want women back in the kitchen barefoot pregnant and ready to service their husbands at his command. This is truly a f’d up return to the dark ages.

 

[mark_j]

It like the old biddies that brought on prohibition because some men drank too much and were mean drunks therefore no one could legally drink.

These f-wads are going to find out quickly if they abolish abortion rights and take birth control away that religion isnt as powerful to many people as they believe. These fuckers want Old Testament god and basically their the American Taliban. Just like the Taliban they want to make women subservient to men. Probably because their loser incel boys couldn’t get laid in a brothel.

The next thing they are going to do is make it illegal for a woman to get an education. Anyone that doesn’t believe that’s part of their agenda is a f’n idiot. They want women back in the kitchen barefoot pregnant and ready to service their husbands at his command. This is truly a f’d up return to the dark ages.

Being a bit hyperbolic are we?

 

[YDB95]

Being a bit hyperbolic are we?

That's what a LOT of people thought about the fall of Roe.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Yeah, I like George Carlin, but I think he's off on this one.

Conservatives view unborn fetuses as human beings that have human rights. They are not in favor of any human being being torn apart, limb from limb and thrown in a medical waste bag - from conception to natural death, they afford all human beings this protection. They also don't think that your welfare is anyone else's burden - from conception to natural death, no one else is a slave that should work for your benefit.

So, yes. When you are unborn, you should not be murdered. When you are born, you should not be murdered. They believe that human rights begin at conception.

Most aborted fetuses don't have any limbs yet, and what is there cannot be "torn apart" like an egg cannot be torn apart.

 

[LittleDixie]

Most aborted fetuses don't have any limbs yet, and what is there cannot be "torn apart" like an egg cannot be torn apart.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.vecteezy.com%2Fsystem%2Fresources%2Fpreviews%2F000%2F475%2F937%2Foriginal%2Fvector-stages-human-embryonic-development.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
Fetuses start forming human morphological features pretty quickly.

But, I don't know when most abortions take place, so maybe you're accurate. I'd hope so. If someone is going to have an abortion, I'd hope they did it early.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

What are the right's views on reproductive rights of the clump of cells?

 

[ll74]

Most abortions (85%+) take place in the first trimester. If we use Covid math by Dixie....that means that all of them are after birth.