how much detail?

[karaline]

this is less of a specific question and more of a 'this is what i'm currently worrying about, and i wonder if anyone can relate' kind of a situation.

i'm currently working on an office romance, except I've never actually worked in an office. This means i'm struggling slightly to fill in the details beyond my main characters and their interactions, which in turn has led to me thinking more generally about including detail that doesn't directly move the plot forward. I suspect in past writings i've included unnecessary detail, in a bid to make things seem more authentic.

does anyone else have any ideas about this, rules of thumb, thoughts? am I even making any sense?

cheers
K

 

[windar]

There are no rules, of course. To me if a story is just a way to move the characters into bed, then I don't have much interest in reading it. My stories tend to have tons of details. The latest one my co-author and I are running is set in Gilded Age New York. We did a ton of research and have mixed in some real-life events and characters with the fictional ones. The readers' comments are highly favorable, particularly about the historical details. Some details we put into notes so as not to intrude too much into the plot.

If you haven't actually worked in an office, there are certainly plenty of stories set in offices that you can read for background. Or you can watch "The Office"-either the US or UK version. While some things are exaggerated, the general zeitgeist is actually not that far from reality.

 

[ElectricBlue]

You've given yourself a bit of a challenge, I reckon.

Given that many readers will know the human dynamics within an office, they're going to spot that you're faking it if you give too much wrong detail, so on that basis you either need to bone up on offices, or go vague and wing it, and hope it doesn't matter.

But people in offices go for walks in parks and go to coffee shops (especially if something is bubbling between them), so maybe that's a safer solution.

 

[visioneer]

I recommend not fretting about the details, per se. Since your story is a romance, concentrate on the romance between the characters. It should be enough to suggest an office setting with a few passing references... cubicles, individual offices, team rooms, the guy coffee across the aisle who slurps his coffee, etc. Your readers, given a sketch of the setting, will fill in the details with their imaginations.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is a great question. I've spent much of my working career, decades-long, working in offices. I know exactly what office culture is like, and I choose to write stories sometimes that are set in offices, because I know that culture.

I would boil my advice down to this: a little detail is all you need. A little detail, if it's the right detail, goes a long way. You don't have to worry about getting all the details right.

Here are a few thoughts I have about the office environment that might help you:

1. It's hierarchical. The bigshots have the big corner offices with windows on two sides. A step below them are the strivers who have window offices. The secretaries and other support staff work in interior offices and cubicles. Everybody knows the hierarchy. It's a big part of the office environment.

2. People want to make an impression. It's important to be there before the boss gets there. Impressions are important.

3. There's a constant conflict between the sex drive, which makes people pushed together in office environments want to hook up, and the modern system of trying to regulate sexual relations because of the risk of abuse and hostile environment. The sex drive is a river that can be dammed imperfectly at best.

4. Offices vary widely depending upon the nature of a business. Government offices tend to be functional and somewhat drab. The office of a high-end business law firm is more likely to be dazzlingly clean and modern, to impress clients.

5. There can be a voyeuristic quality to working in an office. You are aware of all the people around you. You make a point of making more trips to the bathroom than necessary to catch a glimpse of the cute IT person you have a crush on. You have a job to do, but the human aspect never goes away.

6. In an office setting, there's an aspect of people always struggling to maintain their little fiefdoms, and it's true of everybody.

Good luck with your story!

 

[TheRedChamber]

It's hard to know what potential pitfalls you might encounter without know the details of the story and what your aiming to achieve with it. It may be possible to fudge it with your characters meeting at the water cooler, in the car park and in the canteen and to have the drama be mainly character driven. In which case, no one is going to miss the office details - even if you haven't worked in an office lots of people have.

While what SimonDoom has outlined above is true for many offices (especially ones in high flying companies) ever company is has a slightly different atmosphere. Some people are scrupulous about leaving at their appointed hour (and if they have kids or other commitments may need to). It may have a strict view of sexual relations between employees or it's HR department might itself be full of sleeze bags. It's up to you how to set things up so the story flows through the environment well - you can get away anything with a lot by saying the owner is slightly eccentric or the offices is set up in a strange old building.

In terms of general detail, I think that writing confidently can cover for a lot of mistakes. I've recently written stories where the main character has been working in a gas station and and as an estate agent, and I've done neither, but then, neither have a lot of my readers, but I've been customers to both and just taken it from there, filling out details with which I assume would happen (for example, I'm assuming that no-one reviews CCTV footage from a petrol station unless there is a specific reason to and the tapes get wiped relatively quickly). Occassionally I'll do some actual research - for example, I wasn't sure what the ethical issues of an estate agent buying a property they were involved with selling were (fewer than you might imagine).

 

[karaline]

You've given yourself a bit of a challenge, I reckon.

Given that many readers will know the human dynamics within an office, they're going to spot that you're faking it if you give too much wrong detail, so on that basis you either need to bone up on offices, or go vague and wing it, and hope it doesn't matter.

But people in offices go for walks in parks and go to coffee shops (especially if something is bubbling between them), so maybe that's a safer solution.

You know what, I do have an office, i have a desk, i share that space with others, its just that most of my works takes place in the classroom, so despite not working in 'an office' i reckon i will have some insight into the dynamics that exist in them. I guess i'm just struggling with writing about an office in an industry that i have no direct experience rather than an institution.

The latest one my co-author and I are running is set in Gilded Age New York. We did a ton of research and have mixed in some real-life events and characters with the fictional ones. The readers' comments are highly favorable, particularly about the historical details. Some details we put into notes so as not to intrude too much into the plot.

this sounds fascinating!

I recommend not fretting about the details, per se. Since your story is a romance, concentrate on the romance between the characters. It should be enough to suggest an office setting with a few passing references... cubicles, individual offices, team rooms, the guy coffee across the aisle who slurps his coffee, etc. Your readers, given a sketch of the setting, will fill in the details with their imaginations.

I think you might be right here.

This is a great question. I've spent much of my working career, decades-long, working in offices. I know exactly what office culture is like, and I choose to write stories sometimes that are set in offices, because I know that culture.

I would boil my advice down to this: a little detail is all you need. A little detail, if it's the right detail, goes a long way. You don't have to worry about getting all the details right.

Here are a few thoughts I have about the office environment that might help you:

1. It's hierarchical. The bigshots have the big corner offices with windows on two sides. A step below them are the strivers who have window offices. The secretaries and other support staff work in interior offices and cubicles. Everybody knows the hierarchy. It's a big part of the office environment.

2. People want to make an impression. It's important to be there before the boss gets there. Impressions are important.

3. There's a constant conflict between the sex drive, which makes people pushed together in office environments want to hook up, and the modern system of trying to regulate sexual relations because of the risk of abuse and hostile environment. The sex drive is a river that can be dammed imperfectly at best.

4. Offices vary widely depending upon the nature of a business. Government offices tend to be functional and somewhat drab. The office of a high-end business law firm is more likely to be dazzlingly clean and modern, to impress clients.

5. There can be a voyeuristic quality to working in an office. You are aware of all the people around you. You make a point of making more trips to the bathroom than necessary to catch a glimpse of the cute IT person you have a crush on. You have a job to do, but the human aspect never goes away.

6. In an office setting, there's an aspect of people always struggling to maintain their little fiefdoms, and it's true of everybody.

Good luck with your story!

Thanks SD, super helpful, as ever.

 

[NotWise]

this is less of a specific question and more of a 'this is what i'm currently worrying about, and i wonder if anyone can relate' kind of a situation.

i'm currently working on an office romance, except I've never actually worked in an office. This means i'm struggling slightly to fill in the details beyond my main characters and their interactions, which in turn has led to me thinking more generally about including detail that doesn't directly move the plot forward. I suspect in past writings i've included unnecessary detail, in a bid to make things seem more authentic.

does anyone else have any ideas about this, rules of thumb, thoughts? am I even making any sense?

cheers
K

Plot isn't the only consideration; setting, characters, plot, conflict and resolution all play in, all in varying degrees in different stories. Details you don't need for plot can be essential for setting or character.

You can go overboard on adding detail. I think you need to be careful selecting the details you use, and make sure they contribute to some component of the story. Otherwise the telling bogs down.

A short-story writing lesson I remember from long ago was about how a single characteristic detail can be used to put flesh on the story's bones with very little wordage. Their example was the precise sound of a woman's steps as she went about her work. The best example I've read on Lit was KeithD's story in the first 750 word project. He used small actions and brief observations to create a clear impression in just a couple paragraphs.

 

[Djmac1031]

I struggle with the same, for different reasons.

I'm not an accountant, or a lawyer, but I currently have two male characters who are. Granted, one is merely a side character.

So the amount of detail I add when describing their work can be vague at best. Sure, I can and do often Google things to help me along on these kinds of things, (for various other characters, jobs, settings etc) but in the end, if I truly don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I try to just keep it simple. Most times it's not all that important to the main story anyway.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Not all offices are as hierarchical as Simon suggests - a large office block might alternatively be open plan, with the directors or chief execs having their own meeting rooms they just happen to spend most of their time in, but everyone else hot-desks, resulting in seething resentment of the woman and man who get in at 7am each day and everyone concludes they are having an affair whether they are or not.

Small offices and large organisations have very different cultures, IME more different than public vs private sectors. But all workplaces will have people wanting a break and/or a private conversation, and will find places to do those, some of which will be more conducive to liaisons than others - eg when 5000 people work in an office block, you will overhear many personal phone calls in the stairwells, but people won't be having sex there (as opposed to a business with many small lockable store rooms...). However the local pharmacy sells condoms and lube at extortionate prices, suggesting people are hooking up somewhere nearby. The 'meeting rooms' of the local Christian hall, I suspect.

 

[lovecraft68]

Whenever I feel the need to write about a scenario I'm not overly familiar with I do the opposite. I as little detail as I can get away with. In your case, they have an office, they answer a phone, send an e-mail, so and so pops in to tell them they're doing a coffee run, want anything? You don't need to get into layouts, what exactly they do there, how many people who does what other than if they pertain to the story.

In this case I've always gone by the KISS principle, because the less you say, the less likely you prove yourself clueless.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The obvious response is that one puts in as much detail as is needed. That is, of course, rather like a recipe saying, Add a medium-large pinch of salt if needed.

The reality is that it depends on a lot of things.

Shorter stories might not need less detail, but they often need carefully-crafted detail, 'condensed' detail, one might say. Somebody working on a 250,000 word novel has the luxury (and labour) of writing a full page to describe a messy desk; somebody aiming at 10,000 words doesn't have that luxury and might have to come up with something like, His desk looked like a job for the Office Depot post-earthquake cleanup squad.

How you write makes a difference. Is your attention on developing characters or on how they are influenced by the world they live in? One could write precisely the same people having precisely the same interactions with each other without almost any detail of their office or co-workers. Equally, one could use their office 'ecosystem' to shape and shift their characters.

Bottom line, IMHO? Just write. If you have the patience, time makes a great editor. Write it and put it away for a year. Dig it out then and see how it looks.

Good luck.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Chester Himes* set his first novel in a World War II-era Los Angeles shipyard. He was living in Los Angeles at the time, but he never worked in one. I assume he must have done research to get all the details right.

As a younger man, he indeed has been when an inmate at the Ohio Penitentiary when a huge fire occurred there and killed hundreds of prisoners. Most of his later novel was based on his first-hand experiences.

I wouldn't likely write lengthy scenes in either a shipyard or a prison. It's probably not worth doing that much research for a short story. I do have a character who works a stint in a fast-food restaurant. For that, I used a few details that my ex-wife told me about her experiences in one of those places.

* Himes' first novel was If He Hollers Let Him Go. His prison novel went through several editions by publishers until it was finally released posthumously with the title Yesterday Will Make You Cry.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK's civil service hierarchy was indicated by carpet. If you had a mat around your single desk on a platform you were a junior supervisor. If you had your own office with a carpet ending a foot before the walls, you were a middle manager. If you had a fully carpeted room you were senior. If you had a secretary and she had a carpet you were very senior.

I started with a mat and progressed to my own enormous office, fully carpeted with access through the carpeted secretary's room. My father and my uncle had the same but with three secretaries each...

Another indication of status is how your phone was answered. If your secretary took all calls first you were senior. If you answered your own phone - you weren't unless it was a red scrambled phone.

Edited for PS: Another less reliable indication was the amount of your entertainment allowance. Although I was senior, I had few important visitors because my department and I were 'backroom boys' that didn't attract attention. My allowance was £50 a year.

My father, my uncle, and my father-in-law might expect to entertain cabinet ministers about once a month. Their entertainment allowance was £50 a month...

 

[oggbashan]

Transport is another indicator of status: In a commercial enterprise, the size and cost of your company car.

In the UK civil service and armed services (except London) a local head - an official car with a dedicated uniformed driver. Lower but still senior - access to a car pool and assigned drivers.

In London very few people, however senior had official transport. But senior officers had an account with black cabs.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I think details should add to a story, or help paint a picture. Too much detail can bog a story down. I hate realizing that I'm wasting my time reading filler. Whatever you're writing should drive the story forward. You can touch on what the office is like, but the focus of your story should be about the couple who are falling for each other. The only reason you'd want to mention the thickness of the carpet, is if she finds it uncomfortable to be on her knees when she drops down in front of him!

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think details should add to a story, or help paint a picture. Too much detail can bog a story down. I hate realizing that I'm wasting my time reading filler. Whatever you're writing should drive the story forward. You can touch on what the office is like, but the focus of your story should be about the couple who are falling for each other. The only reason you'd want to mention the thickness of the carpet, is if she finds it uncomfortable to be on her knees when she drops down in front of him!

I know what you mean, but I don't think detail is always filler. Short stories are both easier and harder to write well. Easier because masses of detail aren't needed, harder because you need to put in something to set the mood, set the scene, etc - otherwise it's just a stroker. Sometimes filler helps prepare the reader, I think.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I agree, some detail is necessary to set the scene. Although I never enjoy reading about the woodgrain on a desk or every single boring detail about someone's job. We're here to read about the couple who are involved with each other, and not to decide if they're any good at decorating a house.

 

[HeyAll]

I've never been good at detail writing, but people constantly tell me that my stories have a lot of detail.

For me, what's worked is giving the right details and the reader can imagine the rest. Let them fill in the blank.

For instance, if you state the occupation and a few words on how the character dresses, then a readers mind can imagine the rest.

It also helps to have character consistency with dialogue. That helps build the world and create the character.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

That's basically what I do as well. I give a brief description of their job and where they work, and let the reader fill in the blanks. Unless what they do for a living is important to the story, like in the case of 'My Plus One' where the male protagonist is a pastry chef teaching cake decorating classes at night, then I give a little more detail to understand what they're doing in the class.