Non-erotic D/s M/s relationships

[dalhart]

Anyone have experience with long-term, non-erotic Dom / sub or Master / slave dynamics in a relationship? What I'm imagining is like, the sub gets used as a human footstool or there may be bondage involved, but both partners are clothed and there's not even any kissing -- at most a caress on the cheek or a head pat as a reward or encouragement. I'm thinking this could fall anywhere from, "Oh yeah, that's actually fairly common," to "No way, what's even the point of that?" so I'm terribly curious what people's takes on this are.

Edit: changed the title from "non-sexual" to "non-erotic", basically, what I'm going for is maybe there is something to get out of these relationships other than sexual arousal or gratification.

 

[Lady2020]

I can't even imagine a non-erotic subtext of D/s, but I guess there are those who do.

 

[twister947]

I have known couples where the wife "wore the pants", and appeared to be the decision maker. Made me wonder what might lie beneath surface.

 

[PaxNurgle]

There are a lot of people out there who really downplay the sexual/fetish/kink aspect of D/s, and focus a lot more on the service and power exchange dynamic.

I see this a lot with many female dommes who get fed up with guys focusing exclusively on kink: They tend to want a female-led relationship that focuses more on lifestyle service and submission, 24/7, outside of the bedroom. Kink and any kind of BDSM-related sex activity is only a small part in the relationship they are looking for, if any part at all (sometimes it isn't.) Whereas with guys, it's just "all kink, whips, collars, paddles and more, all the time." I'm talking more about female led BDSM relationships here; I'm assuming it's different with male-led BDSM relationships.

Basically, I think what you describe is far more common with female led Master/slave relationships, for various reasons.

 

[seela]

I’ve been in a service sub situation for some time in past. It involved almost zero kink that an outsider would have been able to detect, and definitely zero genital action or kissing. Instead it was just me cleaning, ironing, organizing his hobby collection etc.

The dude commented on my performance occasionally, pointing out if I had missed a spot or not done things to his standard/preference. Did a little walk through of his place after I was done to inspect everything. Gave me a delicious “good girl” if I had done extra good. Sometimes generally reminded me of my place in the arrangement.

It wasn’t super long term, though, a bit under a year. He found a girlfriend and she wasn’t happy about me coming over to clean every two weeks or so. She rather paid for a professional to do it.

I get why she wasn’t happy to continue the situation. Even though the actions weren’t sexual at all, it was definitely erotic to me in that after I was done and got home, I had to change my panties and get myself off.

I also have lots of experience in clothed bondage, as the rope bunny but even more so as the rigger. That never really registered as any sort of D/s situation to me, though.

 

[dalhart]

I’ve been in a service sub situation for some time in past. It involved almost zero kink that an outsider would have been able to detect, and definitely zero genital action or kissing. Instead it was just me cleaning, ironing, organizing his hobby collection etc.

The dude commented on my performance occasionally, pointing out if I had missed a spot or not done things to his standard/preference. Did a little walk through of his place after I was done to inspect everything. Gave me a delicious “good girl” if I had done extra good. Sometimes generally reminded me of my place in the arrangement.

It wasn’t super long term, though, a bit under a year. He found a girlfriend and she wasn’t happy about me coming over to clean every two weeks or so. She rather paid for a professional to do it.

I get why she wasn’t happy to continue the situation. Even though the actions weren’t sexual at all, it was definitely erotic to me in that after I was done and got home, I had to change my panties and get myself off.

I also have lots of experience in clothed bondage, as the rope bunny but even more so as the rigger. That never really registered as any sort of D/s situation to me, though.

thanks, seela. I think that's the kind of thing I'm interested in. initially, I was just idly curious, but I think I want to try writing my first Literotica story about this kind of thing, so I'd like to know more, if you're willing, like what specifically was arousing about cleaning and organizing this person's things? was he particularly handsome or was it all in his demeanor? PM is good too if you prefer

 

[dalhart]

There are a lot of people out there who really downplay the sexual/fetish/kink aspect of D/s, and focus a lot more on the service and power exchange dynamic.

I see this a lot with many female dommes who get fed up with guys focusing exclusively on kink: They tend to want a female-led relationship that focuses more on lifestyle service and submission, 24/7, outside of the bedroom. Kink and any kind of BDSM-related sex activity is only a small part in the relationship they are looking for, if any part at all (sometimes it isn't.) Whereas with guys, it's just "all kink, whips, collars, paddles and more, all the time." I'm talking more about female led BDSM relationships here; I'm assuming it's different with male-led BDSM relationships.

Basically, I think what you describe is far more common with female led Master/slave relationships, for various reasons.

I think I guessed that. after reading a little about FLR, I saw how the service aspect may be a bigger part of the relationship. this will sound a bit silly, but as a guy, that episode of "Big Mouth" where all of the female characters are enthralled with a romance novel hero rang true: I don't think the range of variability in what arouses men is necessarily more narrow, but it seems like women typically get in the mood because of "something else" before they want sex, so it makes some sense that the something else could be the only thing, at least for a while.

 

[Jasmine12345]

For online interactions I would do activities or conversations revolve around lifestyle where sex is mostly implied and less explicitly described and it's erotic all over. Or sex is indirect where I play a third, a companion or a confidant.

 

[seela]

thanks, seela. I think that's the kind of thing I'm interested in. initially, I was just idly curious, but I think I want to try writing my first Literotica story about this kind of thing, so I'd like to know more, if you're willing, like what specifically was arousing about cleaning and organizing this person's things? was he particularly handsome or was it all in his demeanor? PM is good too if you prefer

I’m into service and I also enjoy being used. Getting to do chores for someone and getting relatively little in return for it hits both those buttons. It wouldn’t be the same if I was cleaning someone’s home just to be helpful and nice. I can and do enjoy that as well, but it’s not at all sexual for me if there’s no agreed upon and acknowledged dynamic present as well.

For it to be arousing rather than just a weirdish pastime for me, the person whose chores I’m doing has to know I get off on it and has to somehow acknowledge the dynamic.

It takes a certain type of person to be able to let me just do the chores etc. without starting to feel bad and like they’re taking advantage of me in a way they shouldn’t. In my experience many people feel like they have to reward me somehow or they want something overtly sexual because that somehow would make it easier for them to handle the situation.

Looks rarely have a significant role in what I do and with whom. He was a nice person, we had fun conversations, we had similar thoughts about what D/s can look like.

 

[IrisAlthea]

There are a lot of people out there who really downplay the sexual/fetish/kink aspect of D/s, and focus a lot more on the service and power exchange dynamic.

I see this a lot with many female dommes who get fed up with guys focusing exclusively on kink: They tend to want a female-led relationship that focuses more on lifestyle service and submission, 24/7, outside of the bedroom. Kink and any kind of BDSM-related sex activity is only a small part in the relationship they are looking for, if any part at all (sometimes it isn't.) Whereas with guys, it's just "all kink, whips, collars, paddles and more, all the time." I'm talking more about female led BDSM relationships here; I'm assuming it's different with male-led BDSM relationships.

Basically, I think what you describe is far more common with female led Master/slave relationships, for various reasons.

I think a lot of confusion comes from conflating the kink part of BDSM with D/s. That is when people say the want to submit, but actually want to be on the recieving end of a laundry list of kinky stuff.
The service part tends to look more D/s on the outside, but don’t think that has to be the case really.

 

[seela]

I think a lot of confusion comes from conflating the kink part of BDSM with D/s. That is when people say the want to submit, but actually want to be on the recieving end of a laundry list of kinky stuff.
The service part tends to look more D/s on the outside, but don’t think that has to be the case really.

This has been my experience as well. It's very common that all submission is thought of as plenty of whips and leatherwear. And it can be, sure, but that alone doesn't suffice, I don't think. Top and bottom are still not well enough known.

Pax's post above made me wonder... I've played with a few switch guys over the years, and they have been a lot more "kink forward" and a lot less interested in control and service than guys who are just dominant and don't switch. My sample size is small, but it's been a very clear difference. Could what Pax posted be related to this?

There's nothing wrong with kink play, I happily do kinky things with likeminded people when the stars align, but sometimes I really crave that control and service aspect, and so far switchy guys haven't been a good match for me in that regard.

 

[IrisAlthea]

This has been my experience as well. It's very common that all submission is thought of as plenty of whips and leatherwear. And it can be, sure, but that alone doesn't suffice, I don't think. Top and bottom are still not well enough known.

Pax's post above made me wonder... I've played with a few switch guys over the years, and they have been a lot more "kink forward" and a lot less interested in control and service than guys who are just dominant and don't switch. My sample size is small, but it's been a very clear difference. Could what Pax posted be related to this?

There's nothing wrong with kink play, I happily do kinky things with likeminded people when the stars align, but sometimes I really crave that control and service aspect, and so far switchy guys haven't been a good match for me in that regard.

I think you are on to something there with the switches.

 

[Fermina_Daza]

There are such things as service tops or service bottoms. These are still considered power exchange or D/s dynamics. When my husband became I’ll, a friend sent his little letter over to help care for him. There was obviously no sex involved. She truly obtained pleasure from being “in service” to others.

You’re likely to find some of these people are asexual or closer to that spectrum.

 

[PaxNurgle]

I think a lot of confusion comes from conflating the kink part of BDSM with D/s. That is when people say the want to submit, but actually want to be on the recieving end of a laundry list of kinky stuff.
The service part tends to look more D/s on the outside, but don’t think that has to be the case really.

I think, part of the issue with female-led D/s relationships, is that both sides have very different expectations in what they want in the relationship and in what they seek.

Probably the majority of men who seek female domination jump into the BDSM scene after discovering that scenes involving female domination porn, really excite them. They feel a powerful turn-on by the idea of being whipped, spanked, paddled, cuffed, cross-dressed, cuckolded, pegged, or made to worship boots, strap-ons, or even more extreme activities I won't mention here, and jump into it with the (generally mistaken) idea that there are tons of female dommes out there just looking for someone to whip, paddle, cuff, cross-dress, peg, or worship their boots or strap-on, etc.

Then, before long, most of them discover that female dommes seeking men are not looking for those things. They want someone to take care of their household chores, material needs, errands, and so on. Sex, fetish, kink, etc are really not what they are looking for, or at best, only a small part of it.

So, dominant women get frustrated that the "submissive men" who are courting them or are really not what they are looking for. While submissive men, the newbies, realize that what they think of as being a "Submissive" is not at all what they imagined it would be, after getting aroused by the fetish-type activities depicted in female-domination porn.

You could call it a "communication gap" but really, I think a lot of people who get aroused by female-domination fetish porn are misled: They jump into it believing that real-life female-led relationships are like that- spicy hot dungeon-esque scenes all the time- but in reality, true lifestyle female domination is seldom like that at all.

 

[JoRay]

Anyone have experience with... non-erotic Dom / sub or Master / slave dynamics in a relationship? ... Basically, what I'm going for is maybe there is something to get out of these relationships other than sexual arousal or gratification.

Lots of people are semi-into this, we get a meager paycheck, and call the "relationship" a "job."

 

[IrisAlthea]

Probably the majority of men who seek female domination jump into the BDSM scene after discovering that scenes involving female domination porn, really excite them. They feel a powerful turn-on by the idea of being whipped, spanked, paddled, cuffed, cross-dressed, cuckolded, pegged, or made to worship boots, strap-ons, or even more extreme activities I won't mention here, and jump into it with the (generally mistaken) idea that there are tons of female dommes out there just looking for someone to whip, paddle, cuff, cross-dress, peg, or worship their boots or strap-on, etc.

You could call it a "communication gap" but really, I think a lot of people who get aroused by female-domination fetish porn are misled: They jump into it believing that real-life female-led relationships are like that- spicy hot dungeon-esque scenes all the time- but in reality, true lifestyle female domination is seldom like that at all.

Yup.

The strange thing to me is, that in my experience, most men are quite able to distinguish between porn and real life.
When it comes to this though, it doesn’t work too well.
Perhaps people think this BDSM thing suspends you above all that tedious normal life stuff?

 

[seela]

Yup.

The strange thing to me is, that in my experience, most men are quite able to distinguish between porn and real life.
When it comes to this though, it doesn’t work too well.
Perhaps people think this BDSM thing suspends you above all that tedious normal life stuff?

Yeah, I agree with all this.

This topic ties rather well with the 24/7 topic also currently active.

Link here: https://forum.literotica.com/threads/24-7-bdsm-play-thoughts.1563553/

 

[dalhart]

Lots of people are semi-into this, we get a meager paycheck, and call the "relationship" a "job."

har-dee-har-har. I mean a personal relationship.

 

[dalhart]

Thanks, y'all. I'll have to do quite a bit more research, I think before I can write about any of this. I think the challenge will be getting into the heads of the characters since as IrisAlthea described it

someone to take care of their household chores, material needs, errands, and so on

these things can look like things that people in relationship with each other, including just friendly neighbors, just do for each other to be friendly or neighborly. So, probably my first attempts will be bad in many ways, but I'll post a link here if that's allowed by forum rules when I eventually write something.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I think I guessed that. after reading a little about FLR, I saw how the service aspect may be a bigger part of the relationship. this will sound a bit silly, but as a guy, that episode of "Big Mouth" where all of the female characters are enthralled with a romance novel hero rang true: I don't think the range of variability in what arouses men is necessarily more narrow, but it seems like women typically get in the mood because of "something else" before they want sex, so it makes some sense that the something else could be the only thing, at least for a while.

I got caught between threads and answered this here:
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/24-7-bdsm-play-thoughts.1563553/

 

[SissySalina]

Not sure what you are looking for but would sound more like a M/s relationship.
sissy is in a D/s relationship in which She is the of sissy's being, the fuction of this sissy is to serve Her and grant Her request. It is not a sexual relationship as such, the sexual part is only to satisfy Her any Bdsm is introduced by Her for Her pleasure.

 

[Subgrrl99]

Anyone have experience with long-term, non-erotic Dom / sub or Master / slave dynamics in a relationship? What I'm imagining is like, the sub gets used as a human footstool or there may be bondage involved, but both partners are clothed and there's not even any kissing -- at most a caress on the cheek or a head pat as a reward or encouragement. I'm thinking this could fall anywhere from, "Oh yeah, that's actually fairly common," to "No way, what's even the point of that?" so I'm terribly curious what people's takes on this are.

Edit: changed the title from "non-sexual" to "non-erotic", basically, what I'm going for is maybe there is something to get out of these relationships other than sexual arousal or gratification.

There's a group on Facebook that might interest you. Non-Vanilla Aces I bet if you were to ask the group questions in a polite open minded way, you might get some fresh insight not necessarily available here. A lot of the group seem to enjoy the art of shibari (as the exquisite artform it can be), others tend to hook up with Doms or subs looking for people to "caretake?"... I have no clue what the proper term here is.

And of course, asexuality is a large umbrella term so there are sensual aces, sex positive aces who will actually incorporate sex into their play if asked, and of course sex repulsed aces. I bring this up because if you do check out the group please remember content warnings if you wish to actually talk about sex (even in passing) as some would rather avoid those kinds of posts.

 

[dalhart]

There's a group on Facebook that might interest you. Non-Vanilla Aces I bet if you were to ask the group questions in a polite open minded way, you might get some fresh insight not necessarily available here. A lot of the group seem to enjoy the art of shibari (as the exquisite artform it can be), others tend to hook up with Doms or subs looking for people to "caretake?"... I have no clue what the proper term here is.

And of course, asexuality is a large umbrella term so there are sensual aces, sex positive aces who will actually incorporate sex into their play if asked, and of course sex repulsed aces. I bring this up because if you do check out the group please remember content warnings if you wish to actually talk about sex (even in passing) as some would rather avoid those kinds of posts.

Thanks! That's some of what I was after with my original post, so I might give that a try

 

[wallstreetguy]

If there is no sex, then it is just (most likely) a work relationship in which the (most likely) male has a controlling influence on the actions and thought patterns of a (most likely) younger female in his circle of influence.
I have had the above and there is some erotic feeling. But if it is not consummated, it is not D/s. It is just a dominant male and a female who has no backbone/is ok with being told what to do.

 

[dalhart]

@wallstreetguy I'd say that's not what I'm going for...sounds like these are maybe some issues you're dealing with in your world?

The more I've thought about it, I'm thinking of loving, caring relationships that have elements of power exchange. So, the core of is it trust and exploration. From the submissive side, it's getting outside of the constraints and mazes in your own mind by letting someone else take the wheel for a spell. On the dominant side, it's about getting inside another person's head. Maybe that aspect goes both ways though? Honestly, I'm less clear on what the dom gets out of it.

Still want to write about it, but I've managed to stay distracted by other things for past several weeks.