There should be more Queer Catigories

[stickygirl]

I've thought this too, for a while, although I have no knowledge how hard it would be to set up. My thought is that on every Literotica user's home page there would be a link to a new story list that would be generated something like the way Similar Stories lists are generated, and that the user could set it up through the use of preferred tags. The list also would be sensitive, as you say, to the other preferred stories of readers that like the user's preferred stories. It would be updated daily. So it would a customizable tag and preference-based new story list, as opposed to a fixed category-based one. If you like to read bisexual BDSM stories, the Site will feed you stories that fit the bill.

I'm sure others here would have a much better idea how hard or easy that would to set up than I would, but it doesn't seem to me like it would be too hard or be too different from what the site already does.

I had a recommend from one of the most powerful AI websites - Abazon. I was searching for mastic and sealants and it suggested I might be interested in Anusol.

 

[SimonDoom]

I had a recommend from one of the most powerful AI websites - Abazon. I was searching for mastic and sealants and it suggested I might be interested in Anusol.

Let's hope Literotica can do better.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

And here I thought the word "Queer" was now a no-no. I thought everything was gay, lesbian, trans, now. I've reported all your posts with the word "Queer" in them as being offensive to me.

(not really, that words was used exclusively back in the 50s and 60s to describe a gay person of either sex. Well, not a female, she was called a "Dike" no body back then had heard of a lipstick lesbian)

Queer is the correct term here in America to refer to LGBTQPIAAA+ culture and community as a unified whole in academia. Explicitly because it doesn't have a set definition or list of identities is includes and is therefore more flexible and inclusive than the acronym.

That and from a historical perspective most of our identifying words were slurs at some point. I distinctly remember when gay was synonymous with lame or stupid, growing up.

I'm a lesbian in college right now and its really not even a debate. It's just the correct term to use. It so serves as an important saftey net for people who know they aren't straight/cis/perisex but dont know yet definitively what they are. People from more marginalized identities (such as trans) will also use the word queer to indicate that they're part of the community without outing themselves as the specific identity that would place them in danger. Queer is also an increasingly popular gender among nonbinary individuals.

While I understand it's got a history, I really don't think shutting the word down is a good idea. Especially knowing that the resurgence of "Queer is a Slur!" talk, is a TERF led effort to make it harder for trans women to "hide".

 

[SimonDoom]

Queer is the correct term here in America to refer to LGBTQPIAAA+ culture and community as a unified whole in academia. Explicitly because it doesn't have a set definition or list of identities is includes and is therefore more flexible and inclusive than the acronym.

I'm older, and I can recall in a few decades thinking the word "queer" was a lot less acceptable (I'm a straight man). So, this is interesting, and educational. I share some of Zeb's uncertainty.

Would you say the same thing about a straight person's use of the term? Like, sitting around a table having lunch, a straight person using the word "queer" as you suggest? That would be considered OK?

 

[stickygirl]

I'm older, and I can recall in a few decades thinking the word "queer" was a lot less acceptable (I'm a straight man). So, this is interesting, and educational. I share some of Zeb's uncertainty.

Would you say the same thing about a straight person's use of the term? Like, sitting around a table having lunch, a straight person using the word "queer" as you suggest? That would be considered OK?

I'll throw my op in, because the use of the term is context driven, like so many words and phrases. Coming from the next generation up from me, I'd realise they meant homosexual, but in my age group and younger then generally they'd mean what Daisy outlined so well. Bramblethorn is older than me, but from a queer background so knows the modern interpretation. My gran used to say gay and queer in a sense of happy and odd. I guess words are like army knives after all

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I'm not keen on classifying stories based on the author's sexuality/gender ID here. For one because it's not a great indicator of the content - it might be harder for women to write good non-fetish GM content and it might be harder for cis people to write good trans stories, but some can and do.

I totally stand by not branding authors by identity. Such things are complicated. I'm a lesbian who writes a lot of Gay Male fiction but not Lesbian fiction for a bunch of different reasons.

Part of it is that the confines of the English language and how it currently intersects with erotica makes writing cis female anatomy incredibly hard. At least in comparison to cis Male anatomy. Theres a lot of words for penis and balls that arent super medicalized and don't sound derogatory or reminiscent of fetishization from the "wrong" gaze.

Meanwhile weve got like maybe 5 words for Vagina/Vulva and they all sound either medical, derogatory, or are quite litterally euphamism used to avoid mentioning the parts directly.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I'm older, and I can recall in a few decades thinking the word "queer" was a lot less acceptable (I'm a straight man). So, this is interesting, and educational. I share some of Zeb's uncertainty.

Would you say the same thing about a straight person's use of the term? Like, sitting around a table having lunch, a straight person using the word "queer" as you suggest? That would be considered OK?

Queer is an okay term to use when talking about the community at large. So long as you aren't using it as a noun and saying "Queers" instead of "Queer people" or "Queer culture" it's fine.

However I would caution against directing the word at a specific individual unless they themselves use it as an identifier. As theres a big difference between a straight guy talking about "the queer community" and like "that queer dude next door"

One of these sounds the a cis/het maybe doesn't like his gay neighbor. And the other makes it pretty clear that no one is being targeted.

 

[windar]

I totally stand by not branding authors by identity. Such things are complicated. I'm a lesbian who writes a lot of Gay Male fiction but not Lesbian fiction for a bunch of different reasons.

Part of it is that the confines of the English language and how it currently intersects with erotica makes writing cis female anatomy incredibly hard. At least in comparison to cis Male anatomy. Theres a lot of words for penis and balls that arent super medicalized and don't sound derogatory or reminiscent of fetishization from the "wrong" gaze.

Meanwhile weve got like maybe 5 words for Vagina/Vulva and they all sound either medical, derogatory, or are quite litterally euphamism used to avoid mentioning the parts directly.

True. There is no female equivalent of "dick". Rikki, perhaps??? Ricarda??

 

[windar]

Coming back to categories, I've always found them superfluous for Fiction (though I suppose for Non-Fiction there might be some justification). To me there are two categories-Good Stories and Bad Stories. I try to write into the first category and maybe in a few cases I achieve it, but even the second one has its pleasures.

Really a good blurb should tell you whether the story is one you want to read. Categorizing by which sex acts are in it seems awfully limited....

 

[Bramblethorn]

Queer is the correct term here in America to refer to LGBTQPIAAA+ culture and community as a unified whole in academia. Explicitly because it doesn't have a set definition or list of identities is includes and is therefore more flexible and inclusive than the acronym.

IME, it's a rite of passage for any newly-formed queer organisation to spend at least an hour fussing about which version of the acronym to use. "Queer", as you say, sidesteps that issue and makes life easier for people who struggle with those issues.

It's also deeply unpopular with people who would like to see LGB folk fighting against T rather than working together. Can't imagine why...

That and from a historical perspective most of our identifying words were slurs at some point. I distinctly remember when gay was synonymous with lame or stupid, growing up.

Has that even died out? I was hearing it in my WoW days, not so long ago.

I'm older, and I can recall in a few decades thinking the word "queer" was a lot less acceptable (I'm a straight man). So, this is interesting, and educational. I share some of Zeb's uncertainty.

Yeah, back around the 80s it was a hostile term, but it's shifted considerably.

My observation is roughly in line with AWD's: it's widely accepted among young adults, though some (not all) from the older generations will balk at it. I'm somewhere in between; my generation is a bit less likely to use it than AWD's, but not likely to object to it.

It so serves as an important saftey net for people who know they aren't straight/cis/perisex but dont know yet definitively what they are. People from more marginalized identities (such as trans) will also use the word queer to indicate that they're part of the community without outing themselves as the specific identity that would place them in danger. Queer is also an increasingly popular gender among nonbinary individuals.

It's also useful for people who don't fit neatly into the structure implied by those letters.

Several decades back, clinicians often thought of male homosexuality as implying effeminacy. That still survives in some places (e.g. medical systems that lump trans women and gay men together in one category). But LGBT+ advocates made a distinction between attraction and identity - whether you're attracted to men has nothing to do with whether you want to be one.

That's a more accurate framework but still not 100% right. There are areas where the boundaries between e.g. "stone butch lesbian" and "trans man" are decidedly porous and trying to pigeonhole people into one or the other may not be helpful. The intentional broadness of "queer" is useful there.

Would you say the same thing about a straight person's use of the term? Like, sitting around a table having lunch, a straight person using the word "queer" as you suggest? That would be considered OK?

Like a lot of things involving language, there's some nuance to things, and where possible it never hurts to check how people prefer to be addressed. But if you're using it respectfully, particularly for younger folk, it's unlikely to cause offense. Main situations where it could raise hackles:

- If your tone gives the impression it's intended as a slur.
- Talking to older gay people, born around the 1960s or earlier, who might have bad experiences with it.
- Feigned offense from TERFs (anti-trans activists) who have seized on this as a wedge issue and are trying to drive wedges between trans and LGB people, as part of a longer-term divide and conquer strategy - "let's you and him fight". It's a way of making themselves appear progressive - they're defending LGB people, what kind of asshole would oppose that? - while they argue for a lot of shit that hurts both trans and cis queer folk across the board.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Coming back to categories, I've always found them superfluous for Fiction (though I suppose for Non-Fiction there might be some justification). To me there are two categories-Good Stories and Bad Stories. I try to write into the first category and maybe in a few cases I achieve it, but even the second one has its pleasures.

Really a good blurb should tell you whether the story is one you want to read. Categorizing by which sex acts are in it seems awfully limited....

I'm no fan of the current category system - long-term members have seen me griping more than once - but some people do have specific fetishes and want to be able to find stories that click with them. And on the more story-driven side, some want to find stories with characters they can relate to. Ideally, the navigation system would support all of those along with several different definitions of "good"/"bad".

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've thought this too, for a while, although I have no knowledge how hard it would be to set up. My thought is that on every Literotica user's home page there would be a link to a new story list that would be generated something like the way Similar Stories lists are generated, and that the user could set it up through the use of preferred tags. The list also would be sensitive, as you say, to the other preferred stories of readers that like the user's preferred stories. It would be updated daily. So it would a customizable tag and preference-based new story list, as opposed to a fixed category-based one. If you like to read bisexual BDSM stories, the Site will feed you stories that fit the bill.

I'm sure others here would have a much better idea how hard or easy that would to set up than I would, but it doesn't seem to me like it would be too hard or be too different from what the site already does.

It's a common requirement on e-commerce sites, so I would assume there are products one can buy.

They're not perfect ("you just bought a car, you must be the type of person who likes cars, can I interest you in another car?") but they're not awful. They don't necessarily require tagging, though I expect you could use tags to improve the quality of the recommendations.

 

[yowser]

Going back even further in the English language, Victorian vintage times, 'gay' used to be a term to describe prostitutes (I think just females, but am not sure.) 'I saw a gay woman on the bridge last week.' I don't know how or why or when it migrated to its more current meaning.

 

[windar]

I'm no fan of the current category system - long-term members have seen me griping more than once - but some people do have specific fetishes and want to be able to find stories that click with them. And on the more story-driven side, some want to find stories with characters they can relate to. Ideally, the navigation system would support all of those along with several different definitions of "good"/"bad".

Specific fetishes are probably better handled by tags than categories. As for characters you can relate to, honestly, I don't know how you know that until you read at least part way in. A blurb would be the closest guide I can think of for that. Unless you want to say that a lesbian would relate to all gay female characters or a gay man to all gay male ones or anyone with a rear end would relate to stories in "anal".

At least they should offer the option for an author to decline to choose a category and just place it in "uncategorized stories". Many of my stories are really best called adventure stories. I'm not asking for that to be a category, but "uncategorized" would be fine...

 

[NotWise]

At least they should offer the option for an author to decline to choose a category and just place it in "uncategorized stories". Many of my stories are really best called adventure stories. I'm not asking for that to be a category, but "uncategorized" would be fine...

Novels and Novellas is the "uncategorized" category for erotic stories.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

True. There is no female equivalent of "dick". Rikki, perhaps??? Ricarda??

aight, that's actually funny. thank you.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Specific fetishes are probably better handled by tags than categories.

Agreed, but then I think categories should just become tags and navigation should be handled by a tag-based search.

As for characters you can relate to, honestly, I don't know how you know that until you read at least part way in. A blurb would be the closest guide I can think of for that. Unless you want to say that a lesbian would relate to all gay female characters or a gay man to all gay male ones

You can't know for sure without reading in, but it improves the odds. For people from groups that don't get much representation in stories here, even a little bit can be greatly appreciated.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's a common requirement on e-commerce sites, so I would assume there are products one can buy.

They're not perfect ("you just bought a car, you must be the type of person who likes cars, can I interest you in another car?") but they're not awful. They don't necessarily require tagging, though I expect you could use tags to improve the quality of the recommendations.

Incorporating tags into the system gives the Literotica user a form of direct control that you don't get from say, Amazon. Sometimes, the Amazon experience is almost scary in the way it tells you what you must want to be interested in buying. Facebook, too. It's nice to know you have some control over that. I think that's where tags come into play.

 

[windar]

Novels and Novellas is the "uncategorized" category for erotic stories.

That works for stories over 20k words (maybe even down to 15k if you stretch the definition), but a 3k word story really shouldn't go there.

 

[yowser]

That works for stories over 20k words (maybe even down to 15k if you stretch the definition), but a 3k word story really shouldn't go there.

I was half expecting some prankster with an entry in the '750 word challenge' to put their 'novella' there.

 

[Mikoda]

On the other hand... Let them be surprised! Arguably there shouldn't be distinct gay/lesbian categories.
Advertising stories as by/for queer just enforces separation.

And this is the reason why I'm shifting from gay acceptance to "I'm sick and tired of it". Respect of someones viewpoint and preferences goes both ways. All the sometimes literal screaming about LGBT crap only alienates you more and makes the previously accepting people turn against you. So hell yes there should be distinct gay/lesbian categories so that people who do not want to read it can avoid it. You now the treat others the same way you want them to treat you!

 

[Bramblethorn]

And this is the reason why I'm shifting from gay acceptance to "I'm sick and tired of it". Respect of someones viewpoint and preferences goes both ways. All the sometimes literal screaming about LGBT crap only alienates you more and makes the previously accepting people turn against you. So hell yes there should be distinct gay/lesbian categories so that people who do not want to read it can avoid it. You now the treat others the same way you want them to treat you!

Famously, straight people never talk about their sexuality or display it in public.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Going back even further in the English language, Victorian vintage times, 'gay' used to be a term to describe prostitutes (I think just females, but am not sure.) 'I saw a gay woman on the bridge last week.' I don't know how or why or when it migrated to its more current meaning.

IIRC, the "homosexual" use of the word descends from that one - it used to be a term for "immorality" in general, in particular sexual, so it was used for homosexuality, and then gradually that became the main meaning of the word.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

And this is the reason why I'm shifting from gay acceptance to "I'm sick and tired of it". Respect of someones viewpoint and preferences goes both ways. All the sometimes literal screaming about LGBT crap only alienates you more and makes the previously accepting people turn against you. So hell yes there should be distinct gay/lesbian categories so that people who do not want to read it can avoid it. You now the treat others the same way you want them to treat you!

By that logic I've had heterosexual media shoved down my throat since birth. Like hon, if I wanted to avoid straight content completely, I wouldn't be able to consume much of any media. Erotic or otherwise.

Feel free to come back when the proctologist finds your head.

 

[stickygirl]

By that logic I've had heterosexual media shoved down my throat since birth. Like hon, if I wanted to avoid straight content completely, I wouldn't be able to consume much of any media. Erotic or otherwise.

Feel free to come back when the proctologist finds your head.

It's just denial, Daisy - they come out eventually or die a sad and unfulfilled life