There should be more Queer Catigories

[Bramblethorn]

Since the site is not likely to introduce new categories or change the tagging system,

Manu has specifically said that major changes to tagging are planned. I don't know when that's happening, but I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

perhaps it's up to the posters on this thread to come up with a pragmatic workaround. Here is one idea.

--- Come up with a limited set of new alt-categories and agree on their names. For example: queer, bisexual, femdom.

--- Come up with a standard way for authors to indicate that their stories belong to one of the new alt-categories. The story will still have to be published in one of the existing categories, but, for example, it could include the tag "queer" and its blurb could begin with a standard code, like *QUEER*.

Unless the documentation is out of date, Literotica allows approximately 90 characters for title and blurb. (Exact number slightly variable, since not all characters display at the same width.) That's not a lot and it becomes even less if some of that space is being used for categorisation.

Especially a problem for stories that fit multiple of those categories. One of mine involves a straight-bisexual-lesbian threesome and femdom. Tagging for all of those in the blurb would have left me with not nearly enough space to title it and tell people what it's actually about.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Unless the documentation is out of date, Literotica allows approximately 90 characters for title and blurb. (Exact number slightly variable, since not all characters display at the same width.) That's not a lot and it becomes even less if some of that space is being used for categorisation.

Especially a problem for stories that fit multiple of those categories. One of mine involves a straight-bisexual-lesbian threesome and femdom. Tagging for all of those in the blurb would have left me with not nearly enough space to title it and tell people what it's actually about.

It's already kind of a pain to try and fit a snappy descrption of the story into the character limit. Most authors posting queer stories in the general catagories are savvy enough to work the queerness of the story into the description.

Since the site is not likely to introduce new categories or change the tagging system, perhaps it's up to the posters on this thread to come up with a pragmatic workaround. Here is one idea.

I've been coming to Literotica on and off for about a decade. It's probably fair to say that it's the one site I regularly visit that still feels like a late 90s/early 2000s website and things really do not change quickly around here. Tagging systems are always a pain - I have one for my own database of video games and I can't keep straight in my own mind whether I'm tagging things 'race','racing' or 'racer' - trying to make thousands follow predetermined rules without having a set of fixed tags (and thus loosing flexibility) would be messy and not everyone's going to read a white paper before posting stories.

Searching the forums, it does seem like there's been a failed push for bisexual and other catagory reorderings before. I'm not sure if anyone here knows more about the full story? Whether it would be busy or not, it does seem like there's a logical catagory gap for specifically bisexual stories. Similarly, with the way perceptions of sexuality have changed, a 'queer' category for stories that address issues or situations that cross the LGBT letters or else types of queerness that aren't already covered by the catagories seems like a good idea.

I do feel like it's a lot more common to see queer themed stories posted into other catagories than it was years ago, but this is variable depending on the catagory. I get the impression that most BDSM fans aren't going to be too offended by the occassianal clearly marked gay bondage story popping up.

 

[KeithD]

Searching the forums, it does seem like there's been a failed push for bisexual and other catagory reorderings before. I'm not sure if anyone here knows more about the full story?

Sure. Several of us are still here who were here for the full story on opening up a bisexual category (I would open two: One female-perspective bi and one male-perspective bi). An active regular board poster claimed to have gotten permission directly from Laurel, the site editor/owner, to organize a collection of opinions on the discussion board on instituting a bisexual category. She asserted she had that permission when she opened up a thread on one board and that it was being done by permission wasn't denied. In an approximately eighteen months of collection, respondents overwhelming supported the category addition. Without posting anything to that board discussion, after over a year and a half, Laurel posted to an entirely different board that she never approved a survey and didn't intend to open a bisexual category. Several of us called her out on it at the time (receiving no response) and the active regular board member left Literotica.

That was a good decade ago. There still is no bisexual category. My sr71plt account is doing a periodic testing of the Group Sex category with a male-perspective bisexual story, "Bavarian Unicorn," which, as suspected would be the case of posting my bi stories anywhere but GM here, is rating at 3.29 today. So, it remains that there are well over 20 categories here expecting the stories to be straight, 1 lesbian category, 1 and half GM categories (many of the Crossdressing/Trans category stories are GM) and no bisexual category.

Others are free to confirm or deny this nutshell summary.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

...it remains that there are well over 20 categories here expecting the stories to be straight, 1 lesbian category, 1 and half GM categories (many of the Crossdressing/Trans category stories are GM) and no bisexual category.

Others are free to confirm or deny this nutshell summary.

The history is correct.

Some bisexual stories go down well in GM/LS - "I thought I was straight until..." but the opposite, "I thought I was gay until..." would have to be an EC or Fetish story. BDSM copes better with bisexuals than it does with switches or non-sissy submissive men, but that's a low bar. I've got a H-rated story in GM with a guy shagging both a woman then a man, so it is possible, but there's not many viewers wanting bisexuality - and those who do are split into many factions too. Group is another option if there's two sexes getting lucky - if signposted, they seem quite accepting there.

 

[KeithD]

The history is correct.

Some bisexual stories go down well in GM/LS - "I thought I was straight until..." but the opposite, "I thought I was gay until..." would have to be an EC or Fetish story. BDSM copes better with bisexuals than it does with switches or non-sissy submissive men, but that's a low bar. I've got a H-rated story in GM with a guy shagging both a woman then a man, so it is possible, but there's not many viewers wanting bisexuality - and those who do are split into many factions too. Group is another option if there's two sexes getting lucky - if signposted, they seem quite accepting there.

I've been posting my male-perspective bi stories to GM for over a decade. They don't receive attacks for being there, but they don't rate as well as GM stories do. Since I'm basically using Literotica (and other story sites) as an out-of-computer storage center for stories, I continue to post bi stories here. Literotica doesn't make it convenient for readers to find bi stories on the site, though.

I don't feel comfortable posting bi stories anywhere to Literotica (but I do and just swallow the lower ratings). Literotica doesn't provide a good category for posting them. Literotica isn't receptive to bi stories or helpful to those wanting to read bi stories.

 

[MaiaEmpire]

Your friend really should learn to speak for themselves. They don't get to dictate the sexual identity of all 7.93 billion humans, especially when their assertions can easily be proven incorrect.

I most definitely would not take my friend's perspective as one of any scientific value. He is guilty of the same human fallacy as anyone - making broad generalizations based on his personal experience. I daresay I am guilty of the same crime of asserting certain beliefs, which are based solely on my own limited experience, on certain isolated corners of the internet.

Fortunately, bouncing uncomfortable ideas off each other and taking a moment to absorb it is how we progress as individuals in a society. I suppose by definition something that is "queer" is, statistically speaking, an outlier. And an outlier in the curve is how we can reexamine ourselves or what we consider The Norm. If it is proven that a conceit is not 100% accurate, we need to disseminate it in order to potentially make it more equitable for everyone. If we can challenge ideas, maybe we can get to a point where we don't have to label everything and just exist as humans. Or maybe I'm naive...that seems to usually be the case. I'm too vanilla for my own good.

Anyway, to the original point: more categories! Longer story summaries! More integrated tags!

 

[TheRedChamber]

Some bisexual stories go down well in GM/LS - "I thought I was straight until..." but the opposite, "I thought I was gay until..." would have to be an EC or Fetish story.

I've been posting my male-perspective bi stories to GM for over a decade. They don't receive attacks for being there, but they don't rate as well as GM stories do ... Literotica doesn't provide a good category for posting them. Literotica isn't receptive to bi stories or helpful to those wanting to read bi stories.

It seems to me 'straight seduction' stories are a common type of gay category story. As long as the action is all male-male, that seems like the natural place for it (although if they were adding a lot of extra catagories this might be a good new one). The way I was imagining it, the bisexual category would have both male-male and male-female sex scenes - either sequentially or concurrently. I'd say that stories should be based on action rather than identity, but perhaps that's just me? I wasn't sure which type KeithD was referring to, so I checked out his story list, which kind of highlights the problem because it wasn't at all obvious if there were bisexual action stories there - I did eventually find one, although many of the stories that had wives mentioned in the blurb were gay action only and my initial attempt to narrow it with the 'bi' tag ended up with me fruitless searching throught the 'big cock' section (well maybe not entirely fruitless...)

I've had an idea for a story knocking around in my head for a while. A male escort is firm that he only has female clients. A gay customer offers the agency increasingly large amounts for his services with no luck. Finally, he's offered the chance to sleep with the stunningly attractive female escort that he's long had a thing for, with the customer present but not taking part (at least directly). The sex then is written from the perspective of him lusting after the girl, but feeling uncomfortable about being lusted after. I haven't decided on an ending yet and I let my characters have a certain amount of autonomy in the writing process, but I don't think there's going to be any gay sex in it, so it's probably not going to please any gay catagory readers. It could go in Exhibitionism maybe with a clear preamble saying that it's 'heterosexual but homoerotic', but that kind of acts as a spoiler. It's the sort of thing that would be ideal for a bisexual catagory (even if technically none of the characters are actually bisexual)

 

[KeithD]

It seems to me 'straight seduction' stories are a common type of gay category story.

I don't think I've ever written a "straight seduction" story for a GM category (or any other category. I'm not interested in bending straight guys or writing about that being done). I don't think I even would consider that a guy who could be seduced by another guy could be termed "straight"--even before the seduction.

Quite some time after I was married, I was first seduced by another man (there's a story or two here about that). I accept that means I was bi to start with (I didn't lose sexual interest in my wife), not that I ever was fully straight. What was amusing at the time was that I knew my wife was bi and was afraid there had been a mismatch.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I don't think I've ever written a "straight seduction" story for a GM category (or any other category. I'm not interested in bending straight guys or writing about that being done). I don't think I even would consider that a guy who could be seduced by another guy could be termed "straight"--even before the seduction.

Quite some time after I was married, I was first seduced by another man (there's a story or two here about that). I accept that means I was bi to start with (I didn't lose sexual interest in my wife), not that I ever was fully straight. What was amusing at the time was that I knew my wife was bi and was afraid there had been a mismatch.

Sorry, maybe a danger of replying to you and Kumquatqueen in the same paragraph. By 'straight sedution' I was thinking of Kumquat's 'I thought I was straight until...' type of story. I only skimmed some of your stories so wasn't really commenting on their content. Perhaps 'straight seduction' isn't the best way of putting it - maybe 'Awakening's' or something refering to people discovering/coming-to-terms with their sexual identities.

 

[KeithD]

Sorry, maybe a danger of replying to you and Kumquatqueen in the same paragraph. By 'straight sedution' I was thinking of Kumquat's 'I thought I was straight until...' type of story. I only skimmed some of your stories so wasn't really commenting on their content. Perhaps 'straight seduction' isn't the best way of putting it - maybe 'Awakening's' or something refering to people discovering/coming-to-terms with their sexual identities.

Yes, though I don't do many "awakening" stories either. Most of mine are awakened/accepted/reveling in it stories. I don't usually devote much wordage to "the agony of getting there."

 

[MelanieShaman]

Queer writer who only writes queer stories (on exclusively lesbian stories) currently working on a sci-fi story...

 

[Kumquatqueen]

The way I was imagining it, the bisexual category would have both male-male and male-female sex scenes - either sequentially or concurrently. I'd say that stories should be based on action rather than identity, but perhaps that's just me?

Thing is, not many stories have both mm and mf scenes, and most of those that exist are likely in Group or GM without any problem.

It's more likely that you'll have one sex scene, but a character thinking about someone of the other sex to the one they're bonking, or generally having an internal dialogue which makes clear they're bisexual.

If there's a bisexual category, then a certain type of reader will start policing all the other categories to force any bisexual content into it. And I don't want to be in a tiny ghetto. I'm happy to give readers a heads-up at the start of a story about content which might interrupt their wank, but otherwise I want to reach a broad audience - who might never have clicked on a Bisexual category.

 

[yowser]

I'm happy to give readers a heads-up at the start of a story about content which might interrupt their wank,

Must never, ever, do that.

 

[KeithD]

Must never, ever, do that.

Agree. I try not to set my stories up for a reader to find something they don't like. I expect my readers to be adult. If they can't take responsibility for what they read themselves and just withdraw and walk away if they encounter something that gives them the vapors, I don't need them as readers.

 

[stickygirl]

Must never, ever, do that.

Agreed - it's a medical trauma - litigation may follow. Erection loss is no joking matter

 

[TheRedChamber]

Thing is, not many stories have both mm and mf scenes, and most of those that exist are likely in Group or GM without any problem.

It's more likely that you'll have one sex scene, but a character thinking about someone of the other sex to the one they're bonking, or generally having an internal dialogue which makes clear they're bisexual.

If there's a bisexual category, then a certain type of reader will start policing all the other categories to force any bisexual content into it. And I don't want to be in a tiny ghetto. I'm happy to give readers a heads-up at the start of a story about content which might interrupt their wank, but otherwise I want to reach a broad audience - who might never have clicked on a Bisexual category.

I'm not sure I'm too worried about the size of a category. Humor and Satire is a tiny and I know that anything I post there will take a long, long time to get to 1k views, but I enjoy writing that kind of story occassionally. The lack of a good place to put them may be stopping mm-mf stories from being written, but I agree that there probably will never be that many. I'd say that the battle over whether Gay stories can go in GM or in other more specific catagories is already going on and progress is being made slowly, but sure, people will be assholes. Perhaps it's in my nature, but I like things to be sorted well, but giving people the information to find something is always also going to give them the information to avoid it as well.

 

[GinnyPPC]

I think Ginny's suggesting changing that, so that readers can add a tag that the author didn't think to include.

Correct - It should take a number of submissions from readers to get a tag applied to a story that is not from an author. For example, I might have forgotten to tag "single mom" to one of the chapters of my story Catering Girl. In that case it would be fine if a number of readers suggested that tag, as it is integral to the story. However, there are other tags that I could see readers thinking should be on there and I would cringe seeing those applied.

Of course, searching for tags are only as good as tags on those stories. So, they should have to be common tags for reader submissions. Let the authors have fun with the silly tags (and yes, I did tag three of my chapters with "Ranch Dressing").

But my idea is just an idea and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[HectorBidon]

Manu has specifically said that major changes to tagging are planned. I don't know when that's happening, but I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

Unless the documentation is out of date, Literotica allows approximately 90 characters for title and blurb. (Exact number slightly variable, since not all characters display at the same width.) That's not a lot and it becomes even less if some of that space is being used for categorisation.

Especially a problem for stories that fit multiple of those categories. One of mine involves a straight-bisexual-lesbian threesome and femdom. Tagging for all of those in the blurb would have left me with not nearly enough space to title it and tell people what it's actually about.

Maybe just a single agreed-upon word or acronym in the blurb then to mean something like: "Warning, this story does not conveniently fall within the conventional Lit categories. Please refer to the tags and author's note for a more complete characterization." Perhaps "CL" for "caveat lector".

 

[Bound_Vixen]

On the other hand... Let them be surprised! Arguably there shouldn't be distinct gay/lesbian categories.
Advertising stories as by/for queer just enforces separation.

I added the Lesbian tag to my story, not to try to drive people away, anyone can read it, and (HOPEFULLY?) enjoy it but I wanted to be honest about the content.

 

[AlinaX]

Adding suitable tags is fine. Content warnings about incest, non-con and mind control are again fine. But adding a content warning about characters' identities and orientations seems entirely unnecessary.

Content Warning: Woke characters and themes. Suitable for special snowflakes. Bigots will (inevitably) be offended.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Adding suitable tags is fine. Content warnings about incest, non-con and mind control are again fine. But adding a content warning about characters' identities and orientations seems entirely unnecessary.

Content Warning: Woke characters and themes. Suitable for special snowflakes. Bigots will (inevitably) be offended.

My rule of thumb is to provide the same level of warning for gay and/or trans content as I would do for straight and/or cis content.

 

[PastMaster]

On the other hand... Let them be surprised! Arguably there shouldn't be distinct gay/lesbian categories.
Advertising stories as by/for queer just enforces separation.

I agree with the principle but all that would do in practicality is give you shit reviews and ratings when the neanderthals suddenly realise they are reading a gay story with their dicks in their hand.

 

[nice90sguy]

Ultimately, what Literotica should do is create a site where users can set up customized home pages that deliver the kinds of stories they want, based upon tags.

Great idea. Tag search is the only way I look for stories here.

 

[AlinaX]

I agree with the principle but all that would do in practicality is give you shit reviews and ratings when the neanderthals suddenly realise they are reading a gay story with their dicks in their hand.

... and enjoying it.

 

[PastMaster]

... and enjoying it.

exactly - that will really piss them off