yUKes Kickin' Russkie Butt?

Unfortunately, there's no telling. Propaganda needs have both sides claiming they are doing well.

Putin isn't going to be checked by incrementalism. I think NATO should call an emergency meeting to take up Ukrainian membership and see how that sets with Putin in the next twenty-four hours. And if he doesn't show signs of backing down, which he probably wouldn't, go ahead and admit them and move troops into western Ukraine to maintain there's a NATO-member country there. And then gin up the "depose your runaway leader" propaganda campaign into Russia. Maybe encourage some bombings of government buildings by the opposition throughout Russian cities. Really put the screws to the Putin gang.

Just grateful Putin's espionage asset isn't in place in the U.S. presidency while this is unfolding.
 
Unfortunately, there's no telling. Propaganda needs have both sides claiming they are doing well.

Putin isn't going to be checked by incrementalism. I think NATO should call an emergency meeting to take up Ukrainian membership and see how that sets with Putin in the next twenty-four hours. And if he doesn't show signs of backing down, which he probably wouldn't, go ahead and admit them and move troops into western Ukraine to maintain there's a NATO-member country there. And then gin up the "depose your runaway leader" propaganda campaign into Russia. Maybe encourage some bombings of government buildings by the opposition throughout Russian cities. Really put the screws to the Putin gang.

Just grateful Putin's espionage asset isn't in place in the U.S. presidency while this is unfolding.
Not a drop of information ever penetrates that vast expanse of concrete you call a consciousnss.
 

Russian offensive unexpectedly slowed by fierce Ukrainian resistance

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.nbcnews.com.icoNBC News|2 hours ago
We do assess that there is greater resistance by the Ukrainians than the Russians expected," a senior U.S. defense official said. "They are fighting for their country."



Or just a temporary thing?

If it's true the Russians didn't expect it, that's a pretty major misreading of history. Their own history, for starters (see: Napoleon, Hitler).

I do think it's likely that they were counting on enough early success that it would demoralize the populace into just surrendering. And while it's not surprising to see the Klitschko brothers with Kalashnikovs, I don't think they were counting on ex-comedian Zelensky to hang tough like this. His counterpart in Afghanistan got the hell out of there right behind the Americans.

The longer this drags on for Russia, the worse it's going to get for them.
 
If it's true the Russians didn't expect it, that's a pretty major misreading of history. Their own history, for starters (see: Napoleon, Hitler).

I do think it's likely that they were counting on enough early success that it would demoralize the populace into just surrendering. And while it's not surprising to see the Klitschko brothers with Kalashnikovs, I don't think they were counting on ex-comedian Zelensky to hang tough like this. His counterpart in Afghanistan got the hell out of there right behind the Americans.

The longer this drags on for Russia, the worse it's going to get for them.
From your mouth to God's ear, but one point of information: The hand-picked Johns Hopkins prof running Afghanistan skedaddled well before we pulled out, taking our money with him.
 

Russian offensive unexpectedly slowed by fierce Ukrainian resistance

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.nbcnews.com.icoNBC News|2 hours ago
We do assess that there is greater resistance by the Ukrainians than the Russians expected," a senior U.S. defense official said. "They are fighting for their country."



Or just a temporary thing?

Isn't that just propaganda and US self-excuse bullshit?

Russians managed to enter Kiev in less than 3 days, they cut into them like cheese.

I fear that Ukrainians have no chance without external help, but if NATO helps Ukraine then Belarus or whomever jump in to help Russia, so ww3.
The only way to avoid further slaughter is for Ukraine to capitulate and do a regime change, but that would be Russian colonialism.
What a conundrum.
 
Unfortunately, there's no telling. Propaganda needs have both sides claiming they are doing well.

Putin isn't going to be checked by incrementalism. I think NATO should call an emergency meeting to take up Ukrainian membership and see how that sets with Putin in the next twenty-four hours. And if he doesn't show signs of backing down, which he probably wouldn't, go ahead and admit them and move troops into western Ukraine to maintain there's a NATO-member country there. And then gin up the "depose your runaway leader" propaganda campaign into Russia. Maybe encourage some bombings of government buildings by the opposition throughout Russian cities. Really put the screws to the Putin gang.

Just grateful Putin's espionage asset isn't in place in the U.S. presidency while this is unfolding.
Because I lived through the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan I think we should keep our troops out of this war. In those wars we were more interesting in fighting for the freedom of the South Vietnamese, the Iraqis, and the Afghans than they were in fighting for what we considered their freedom to be. This is a war for the Ukrainians to win or lose. I also lived through the Six Day War of 1967, and the Yom Kipper War of 1973. We supplied the Israelis with weapons, but they did the fighting, and won on their own.
 
Because I lived through the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan I think we should keep our troops out of this war. In those wars we were more interesting in fighting for the freedom of the South Vietnamese, the Iraqis, and the Afghans than they were in fighting for what we considered their freedom to be. This is a war for the Ukrainians to win or lose. I also lived through the Six Day War of 1967, and the Yom Kipper War of 1973. We supplied the Israelis with weapons, but they did the fighting, and won on their own.
I was there in Vietnam and covered both Iraq and Afghanistan in reporting and analysis. Putin is one of group of autocrats who only knows "total." Ukraine center isn't his first bite and he's been at war with the United States for nine years since he started trying to bring us to our knees (with much success) by meddling in our politics and being a big part of giving us the coupist Donald Trump and associates. This needs to be a NATO response and it needs to happen while NATO troops--not just U.S.--can, with permission, move into defensive positions in western Ukraine. Bringing Ukraine into NATO membership, for starters, will tell Putin he grossly miscalculated (if, in fact, he has. If the United States/NATO is going to confront him right here.)

Appeasement isn't going to work with Putin any more than it worked with Hitler. We need to check him, establish that this is about Putin personally, not Russia, and then give him a lot to worry about within his own country.
 
I was there in Vietnam and covered both Iraq and Afghanistan in reporting and analysis. Putin is one of group of autocrats who only knows "total." Ukraine center isn't his first bite and he's been at war with the United States for nine years since he started trying to bring us to our knees (with much success) by meddling in our politics and being a big part of giving us the coupist Donald Trump and associates. This needs to be a NATO response and it needs to happen while NATO troops--not just U.S.--can, with permission, move into defensive positions in western Ukraine. Bringing Ukraine into NATO membership, for starters, will tell Putin he grossly miscalculated (if, in fact, he has. If the United States/NATO is going to confront him right here.)

Appeasement isn't going to work with Putin any more than it worked with Hitler. We need to check him, establish that this is about Putin personally, not Russia, and then give him a lot to worry about within his own country.
how do you rate putin's nuclear threats made against any who "interfere" in his war on the Ukraine?
 
I was there in Vietnam and covered both Iraq and Afghanistan in reporting and analysis. Putin is one of group of autocrats who only knows "total." Ukraine center isn't his first bite and he's been at war with the United States for nine years since he started trying to bring us to our knees (with much success) by meddling in our politics and being a big part of giving us the coupist Donald Trump and associates. This needs to be a NATO response and it needs to happen while NATO troops--not just U.S.--can, with permission, move into defensive positions in western Ukraine. Bringing Ukraine into NATO membership, for starters, will tell Putin he grossly miscalculated (if, in fact, he has. If the United States/NATO is going to confront him right here.)

Appeasement isn't going to work with Putin any more than it worked with Hitler. We need to check him, establish that this is about Putin personally, not Russia, and then give him a lot to worry about within his own country.
I agree, this guy has been around, ex KBG. Long term planner. He's been getting ready since 2014 for this. Now that he has started, I only see him stopping if NATO stands firm and fast now. I might go so far as state, a downed civilian aircraft from a NATO member country, or an errant rocket landing in any NATO member's country would be considered an attack on that NATO country.
 
His statements tonight about Finland and Sweden are almost as if designed to force them to join NATO. But he should remember the first time the USSR fought Finland they got a very bloody nose.
 
Zelensky appeals for direct talks with Putin.

Russia willing to negotiate, says Chinese state media:
In a phone call Friday with Chinese President Xi Jinping, Putin said Russia is "willing to conduct high-level negotiations" with Ukraine, according to Chinese state broadcaster CCTV."

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live...s-02-25-22/h_309d5dd81a3fcbb3b27886f13b2e3c5e




As much as it shreds any international treaty, I really don't see any other option, other than Ukraine bending to Russia's conditions.
. This will morph into a bloodbath of Ukrainian civilian men, and then into ww3, cause other countries won't be able to just sit and watch the slaughter.
 
High-level negotiations with Putin? He would only ask for Ukraine's surrender.
 
how do you rate putin's nuclear threats made against any who "interfere" in his war on the Ukraine?
Who knows? Putin's moving into the irrational. There's no real alternative, though, to going on belief/hope that there are those who would prevent him from pushing the button just as there were/are those in the United States who were in place to prevent Donald Trump from doing so. There's nothing to gain--only to lose--to knuckle under Putin's nuclear threat. I'd fold that into my "you've got a nut with a finger on a button to blow us all away" propaganda beamed at Russians on making Putin look over his shoulder for the internal dagger from one minute to the next.
 
High-level negotiations with Putin? He would only ask for Ukraine's surrender.

I'm just bewildered, ogg, whatever solution I consider, I see war world 3.

Isn't Russia too powerful to take on? And it's allies are China and Iran.
In a sense, thank God Germany is dependent on Russia for gas, they might be reluctant about jumping in.

What do British political analysts think this might play out, and what should the nato countries do?
 
on the other hand, Putin is losing popularity in Russia. Naybe this will be the straw that broke the chamel's back, Russians already have the second lowest quality of life in EE and the most olygarchs.. Protests are still on, despite the arrests.
 
there are still major sanctions that can be invoked by other countries and the USA: cutting russia off from SWIFT will have dramatic impact.
 
on the other hand, Putin is losing popularity in Russia. Naybe this will be the straw that broke the chamel's back, Russians already have the second lowest quality of life in EE and the most olygarchs.. Protests are still on, despite the arrests.
Which country has the lowest?
 
From your mouth to God's ear, but one point of information: The hand-picked Johns Hopkins prof running Afghanistan skedaddled well before we pulled out, taking our money with him.
Just think how different things could be had Biden transferred all that military hardware left behind in Afghanistan to Ukraine. Stuff already bought and paid for.
 
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