Punctuation, it...matters.

[mynameisben]

The semicolon as a perfectly good usage in sorting out a complex series:

Her lingerie was all black, accentuating the creamy white of her skin tone; her stiletto heels were red, taking my attention to the firmness of her calves; and her hair was down, the first time I'd seen how long it was.

I agree with you there. That is a fine example of semicolon usage, and there is not a more elegant alternative. But nine times out of ten, semicolon usage is little more than pretentious writing. When I see it for the second time in the same story, that's when I stop reading.


Ben

 

[SamScribble]

But nine times out of ten, semicolon usage is little more than pretentious writing. When I see it for the second time in the same story, that's when I stop reading.

Ben

Oh, Ben! You have cut me to the quick! And I now realise that all of those stories that wrote with you in mind have not been read.

 

[mynameisben]

Oh, Ben! You have cut me to the quick! And I now realise that all of those stories that wrote with you in mind have not been read.

I may have read them; there's an exception to every rule.


Ben

 

[ElectricBlue]

I agree with you there. That is a fine example of semicolon usage, and there is not a more elegant alternative. But nine times out of ten, semicolon usage is little more than pretentious writing. When I see it for the second time in the same story, that's when I stop reading.

Dang. That's one less reader, then .

 

[TadOverdon]

I don't really notice semicolons in other people's writing.

 

[LAHomedog]

I think it's a bit tricky to master their usage. My wife uses them a lot when drafting a legal contract which is what she does all day. Negotiate and draft contracts.

 

[mynameisben]

My biggest issue with punctuation is comma use, when to hyphenate words and which words are one word or two words. Showerhead is one of my biggest struggles. Dictionary lists it as one word while most advertisements for the device list it as two. I don't know if the common usage trumps the dictionary or the dictionary trumps the common usage.

In the example of edits of OP's initial post, I would've suggested:

I struggle, at times, with the comma.

Or

At times, I struggle with the comma.

Or

I struggle with the comma at times.

Rather than simply eliminating the comma and leaving it as is otherwise. But, I'm not certain I'd be right and constantly second guess myself over things like that. Grammarly shows nothing wrong with any of the ways it has been corrected by anyone. But Grammarly isn't 100% reliable.

That's my opinion on the matter anyway, but I'm only a hobby writer and have never written professionally in any capacity. So, grain of salt and all.

As far as general grammar, tense shifts are my biggest issue and the one I have the hardest time catching.

It is often the case that sentences can be correctly punctuated in multiple ways, just like the example you have given. That provides you, as an author rather than a piece of software, an opportunity. You can place a comma where you decide a critical emphasis is needed, or where a comma may resolve an ambiguity or at least give your sentence greater clarity. Just be sure to have a reason when you plop down a comma, otherwise, your sentence, grammatically correct though it may be, may sound stilted, or like it's having, an asthma attack. For the most part though, a moderate amount of comma mismanagement is something that is fairly easily forgiven by readers. They are often less savvy about such things than you are.

Hyphenated words and compound words vs. two words are no big deal. Just go with what the dictionary (or better, dictionaries) have to say. Whenever you are in doubt, ALWAYS consult a dictionary. It is a much greater authority than Joe Schmuck Advertisement Guy.

Tense shift errors, however, are a much more egregious offense. Tense shifts can leave your reader confused, lost, and ready to give up on you. Your time would be much better spent hunting down and eliminating tense shifts, rather than worrying about a stray comma or two.

You may consider yourself only a hobby writer, but it will always be to your advantage to write with as much clarity as you can manage, regardless of the audience or reason.


Ben

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Semi-colons... I run away from them at every turn.

Now Grammarly has never even mentioned that I should use one. Yet word is always telling me to use them.

I guess Grammarly knows I'm writing fiction, whereas Word still thinks I'm writing a business letter.

 

[EdwardsOtherSide]

I struggle at times with, the comma. I feel like I use it too much and resort to making more sentences. Not the semicolon, however; I avoid it, like the plague...mostly because I cannot connect two unrelated thoughts in one stream of consciousness.
If I even understand it's purpose at all.
I'm interested in how you feel about punctuation. It's use or overuse, confusion
...have the rules changed?
Thank you, as always, for your input.

Short answer; if you are over 40 or so, the rules have changed.
Currently, magazine editors loathe commas and will have apoplexy over "two spaces after a period". They will throw hands over the Oxford comma. I think the reasoning is "screw readability, save ink & paper".

More sentences is not necessarily bad. If I read a run-on sentence, I will be gasping at the end of it (period means stop & take a breath where and when I learned to read).

Semicolons aren't difficult, as previous commenters have mentioned. That comes down to your style. If that isn't how you think, don't force it.

 

[rainbowbite]

I struggle at times with, the comma. I feel like I use it too much and resort to making more sentences. Not the semicolon, however; I avoid it, like the plague...mostly because I cannot connect two unrelated thoughts in one stream of consciousness.
If I even understand it's purpose at all.
I'm interested in how you feel about punctuation. It's use or overuse, confusion
...have the rules changed?
Thank you, as always, for your input.

I struggle with run-on sentences and comma usage at times. I know rules have changed and that younger generations are learning different ways of writing, which I am not caught up with. I've learned a lot about punctuation and general grammar by working with a few different editors before publishing a story.

 

[oggbashan]

Apostrophe?

There has been correspondence in The Times about the proposed cessation of the apostrophe. Apart from people who have apostrophes in their surnames such as De'Ath one woman writes.

If the apostrophe is abandoned, what will it mean if I write:

The rubbish buried under the cellar floor is my husbands"? (instead of husband's).

 

[mynameisben]

There has been correspondence in The Times about the proposed cessation of the apostrophe. Apart from people who have apostrophes in their surnames such as De'Ath one woman writes.

If the apostrophe is abandoned, what will it mean if I write:

The rubbish buried under the cellar floor is my husbands"? (instead of husband's).

The idea is absurd. Where is the upside? Eliminating the apostrophe accomplishes nothing beyond making life slightly easier on schoolchildren tasked with learning the very few apostrophe usage rules. Its elimination makes text look prettier?

The downside is much more savage. Eliminating the apostrophe allows possessive/plural ambiguity to creep into sentences where ambiguity never existed before. It needlessly tasks the reader to make sense of a sentence from context alone where a single punctuation mark could resolve the issue elegantly.

The idea of eliminating the apostrophe is such an idiotic step backward, I don't know how you can continue following the chatter about it in the Times.


Ben

 

[SimonDoom]

There has been correspondence in The Times about the proposed cessation of the apostrophe..

With minimal effort one can find "correspondence" in a news publication anywhere advocating the most preposterous ideas, so I wouldn't take this one too seriously. It would eliminate so much clarity in written communication that it would be foolish, and I can't help but think most people understand that.

 

[oggbashan]

All The Times correspondents have ridiculed the idea. But they would, wouldn't they? Times readers tend to be the more literate among the UK's population.

PS. For years since Lit was founded, the AH was called the Author's Hangout. We always wondered which of us was the favoured one until Manu bowed to pressure and changed it to Authors' Hangout.

 

[SimonDoom]

All The Times correspondents have ridiculed the idea. But they would, wouldn't they? Times readers tend to be the more literate among the UK's population.

PS. For years since Lit was founded, the AH was called the Author's Hangout. We always wondered which of us was the favoured one until Manu bowed to pressure and changed it to Authors' Hangout.

Did you mistype that? I don't understand.

 

[KeithD]

will have apoplexy over "two spaces after a period".

*Sigh* Once again, publishing never used two spaces after a period. That was a necessity imposed by the typewriter's inability to provide a bit more leading after terminal punctuation, which has been the practice of printing since the fifteenth century when the Gutenberg Bible was printed. The computer, which can replicate printing, replaced the typewriter in common use nearly forty years ago.

 

[oggbashan]

Did you mistype that? I don't understand.

Which part?

The Times correspondents supporting the apostrophe?

Or that the AH used to be for only ONE author?

 

[SimonDoom]

My biggest issue with punctuation is comma use, when to hyphenate words and which words are one word or two words. Showerhead is one of my biggest struggles. Dictionary lists it as one word while most advertisements for the device list it as two. I don't know if the common usage trumps the dictionary or the dictionary trumps the common usage.

In the example of edits of OP's initial post, I would've suggested:

I struggle, at times, with the comma.

Or

At times, I struggle with the comma.

Or

I struggle with the comma at times.

Rather than simply eliminating the comma and leaving it as is otherwise. But, I'm not certain I'd be right and constantly second guess myself over things like that. Grammarly shows nothing wrong with any of the ways it has been corrected by anyone. But Grammarly isn't 100% reliable.

That's my opinion on the matter anyway, but I'm only a hobby writer and have never written professionally in any capacity. So, grain of salt and all.

As far as general grammar, tense shifts are my biggest issue and the one I have the hardest time catching.

I would write this as:

I struggle at times with the comma. No comma needed. I plugged this into Grammarly and it said it was OK.

It's the same thing as saying:

I struggle sometimes with the comma. Or

I struggle occasionally with the comma.

In none of these cases would a comma be required. "At times" is just a short phrase that modifies "struggle" in the same way "sometimes" does.

This is a good example of how if you focus on exactly what the phrase is doing in a sentence rather than trying to figure out if there's a pause you may have better luck figuring it out what the right usage is.

I agree about tense-shifting. It makes me cringe and throws me out of the story. I feel like I'm reading an author who is not paying attention, and if they're not going to pay attention, why should I?I think the biggest cause of this error is that authors sometimes begin stories in the present tense, because they think it's more artistic or more fashionable, or because they think it gives more immediacy, and then they shift back to past tense because it's what most of us have been programmed to write in fiction. By far the majority of stories are written in the past tense. All of my 42 stories are in the past tense. I never have this problem because I just stick with that and don't have to think about it.

 

[gracie920101]

I think punctuation matters a lot.

In good writing, every single comma, period, letter, etc. that you put on a page matters. Everything conveys meaning. If you don't know what you are doing, or if you are sloppy about it, then you won't convey what you are trying to convey as effectively.

This reminds me of my current read:

"Grammar for a Full Life" by Lawrence Weinstein

I'm just getting started with it but he expresses a similar sentiment.

 

[Ezeerider]

Avoid the angst

Short answer; if you are over 40 or so, the rules have changed.
Currently, magazine editors loathe commas and will have apoplexy over "two spaces after a period". They will throw hands over the Oxford comma. I think the reasoning is "screw readability, save ink & paper".

More sentences is not necessarily bad. If I read a run-on sentence, I will be gasping at the end of it (period means stop & take a breath where and when I learned to read).

Semicolons aren't difficult, as previous commenters have mentioned. That comes down to your style. If that isn't how you think, don't force it.

Okay, as an editor in a past life, I may be able to help here, separate some fact from opinion, and offer a simple bit of advice that will help some of you who are struggling, albeit often needlessly, while searching in the wrong place for answers.

First, with condolences to EOS, editors most definitely do not loathe commas or any other punctuation when properly used.

Next, on the contrary again, EOS, you'll find that most modern style manuals now embrace or mandate the Oxford comma, and most professional publishers demand that their writers follow the particular preference of the house in style manuals. It serves to keep everyone on the same page (shamelessly presented).

On the subject of style manuals, every serious writer should have at least one close at hand, and consult it with any and all doubts and questions, since you'll find your answers there, where the dictionaries will fail you, since that's not their primary function. Those struggling with semicolons, for instance, will find the rules and applications clearly laid out within. Why struggle? Just get the right tool for the right job, and the product and process will both benefit.

I also note that there may be some confusion in the poster's text regarding run-on sentences, the definition of which is quite often grossly misunderstood. A run-on sentence, by definition, occurs when there is no punctuation or conjunction joining two or more independent clauses - regardless of the length of the sentence.

Finally, and I hope this was a typo, EOS, one of the most common errors among beginning and untrained writers is subject-verb agreement. It's usually hammered at in Bonehead English, but somehow, the blunders persist long after. Take for instance the above sentence: "More sentences is not necessarily bad." *Ouch!* And that, dear hearts, is why everyone needs an editor.

So if you're one who truly strives for and revels in pride of workmanship, then make sure you have the tool(s) you need to produce a professionally polished product. It will make the job so much easier for you - and save all the angst and errors created by instead attempting to rely on any of the bogus apps. Writing is a craft, so it takes a certain amount of work and dedication. There ain't no free lunch.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Finally, and I hope this was a typo, EOS, one of the most common errors among beginning and untrained writers is subject-verb agreement. It's usually hammered at in Bonehead English, but somehow, the blunders persist long after. Take for instance the above sentence: "More sentences is not necessarily bad." *Ouch!* And that, dear hearts, is why everyone needs an editor.

Speaking as another editor - though admittedly more technical than English - I wouldn't necessarily consider this one an error. I'd read it not as a plural noun disagreeing with a singular verb, but as slightly informal English where the verb agrees with an omitted/implied gerund: "Using more sentences is not necessarily bad".

 

[KeithD]

Speaking as another editor - though admittedly more technical than English - I wouldn't necessarily consider this one an error. I'd read it not as a plural noun disagreeing with a singular verb, but as slightly informal English where the verb agrees with an omitted/implied gerund: "Using more sentences is not necessarily bad".

I'd let it pass too and almost posted that, but seeing that someone else has, maybe I won't get snarky responses for doing so.

In this context "More sentences" can be taken as a single action.

 

[TadOverdon]

Grammarly, my archnemesis, pronounces the comma in this sentence to be unnecessary. Is it right?

He listened and nodded but asked few questions, as if nothing in her account were remarkable or even surprising.

 

[KeithD]

No electronic system can fully handle the nuances of the English language.

 

[TadOverdon]

My meat computer cannot comprehend all the nuances of the English language. I'm pretty sure the comma belongs there but would entertain the possibility that I'm wrong so I thought to ask.

It seems such an arbitrary and unexpected objection, even for The Grammaster.