Staying true to the ending

[karaline]

For the last year, I've been doing a rewrite of the Iliad with an erotic twist. I really want to stay true to the original ending, which involves Achilles dying, but as I inch closer and closer to the climax, almost every comment i get on this story is readers begging me not to kill him off.

I know i'm going to get a pasting if i follow through and do it the way I want to, i still get distraught and occasionally mildly threatening emails from readers for a story where I shot the male protagonist in the final scene, and I wrote that about 5 years ago.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Do I owe it to my readers to fulfil the conventions of the genre and give them a happy ending? (I'm classifying erotica as romance here obvs).

thanks all

 

[TadOverdon]

No great love stories have happy endings.

The audience should hurt.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Stay true to your concept.

If you're going to rework the myths, you have to keep the mythic ending, or what's the point of the rewrite? (I say this having written my take on the Arthurian myth, where the one thing I knew was essential was the sword and the lake.)

Otherwise you end up with Achilles in The Shady Pines nursing home, and that's ridiculous.

 

[AlinaX]

You can have him come back as a ghost.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

No great love stories have happy endings.

The audience should hurt.

So true. ‘Happily ever after’ is for fairytales. Real love costs.

 

[Nouh_Bdee]

You're not obligated to make a change you don't want to make just to satisfy some vocal readers, and you don't have to kill him to satisfy any others. Happy endings are just as valid as tragic ones, but it's your story. If they want a different ending, they can damn well go write it.

 

[AlphaLyon]

Trust your gut.
Then again, if you want to let him live, here's my suggestion: the translation for "orgasm" from French means "a little death", so give him an orgasm and let him experience a little death...that doesn't kill him.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I follow the mantra 'if in doubt, give them a happy ending', but if you're clearly copying the Iliad, then it makes sense to kill him off.
Readers can move on to your next work.

 

[SouthernCrossfire]

Or pull a Wicked and replace him. Wait, didn't Homer already do that with Patroclus?

Seriously, I'd tend to be true to the story you're following rather than the HEA crowd.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For the last year, I've been doing a rewrite of the Iliad with an erotic twist. I really want to stay true to the original ending, which involves Achilles dying, but as I inch closer and closer to the climax, almost every comment i get on this story is readers begging me not to kill him off.

I know i'm going to get a pasting if i follow through and do it the way I want to, i still get distraught and occasionally mildly threatening emails from readers for a story where I shot the male protagonist in the final scene, and I wrote that about 5 years ago.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Do I owe it to my readers to fulfil the conventions of the genre and give them a happy ending? (I'm classifying erotica as romance here obvs).

Hmm. On the one hand, telling the story that's in your head, in the way that works for you. On the other hand, all the money you're going to lose if you don't give those readers what they want. All those dollars. Sooo many dollars.

Tough choice ;-)

I will say, if you're heading for a tragic ending, it'd be misleading to label that as "romance" and readers would be within their rights to be cranky about that. "Romance" without a happy ending is like a "lesbian" story that's actually about a woman sleeping with a guy. But if you haven't specifically labelled it "romance", I don't think that is implied by "erotica". Plenty of erotica has unhappy endings.

 

[8letters]

I will say, if you're heading for a tragic ending, it'd be misleading to label that as "romance" and readers would be within their rights to be cranky about that. "Romance" without a happy ending is like a "lesbian" story that's actually about a woman sleeping with a guy. But if you haven't specifically labelled it "romance", I don't think that is implied by "erotica". Plenty of erotica has unhappy endings.

I guess "Love Story" wasn't a romance then?

 

[TadOverdon]

I guess "Love Story" wasn't a romance then?

Nor, apparently, are Romeo & Juliet, or Casablanca.

There is a publishing genre, Women's Romance, which guarantees happy endings with all the assurance of a Thai massage parlor in a Pornhub vid.

 

[SimonDoom]

Stick to your guns. Ignore the comments. Do what you want and let the readers deal with it, however they want to.

I don't agree a great love story cannot end happily. Pride and Prejudice is, in my opinion, a great love story, and it ends happily. Great romance can be tragic, or comedic, or epic, or a combination of things. Most of Shakespeare's comedies are also romances, and they end with the characters happily together.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll join in with the group rightfully saying that this is your story and vision, and if you want to kill off the MC, you do so. Your story, not theirs.

 

[TadOverdon]

Never mind.

 

[lovecraft68]

Hmm. On the one hand, telling the story that's in your head, in the way that works for you. On the other hand, all the money you're going to lose if you don't give those readers what they want. All those dollars. Sooo many dollars.

Tough choice ;-)

I will say, if you're heading for a tragic ending, it'd be misleading to label that as "romance" and readers would be within their rights to be cranky about that. "Romance" without a happy ending is like a "lesbian" story that's actually about a woman sleeping with a guy. But if you haven't specifically labelled it "romance", I don't think that is implied by "erotica". Plenty of erotica has unhappy endings.

I think you're putting romance into a predefined box saying they have to have a happy ending.

My wife is always watching those 'tear jerker' movies where she's crying because someone dies at the end. They are romances....and also give an air of realism as people lose their true loves in real life all the time.

All genres have sub genres, but still fall under the 'parent' genre.

 

[Haulover]

...Otherwise you end up with Achilles in The Shady Pines nursing home, and that's ridiculous.

LOL

You can have him come back as a ghost.

You could kill him off, and on the last page he gets to the "afterlife" and discovers 72 virgins waiting for him!

I.e. a sad ending with a great silver lining

 

[Rustyoznail]

I think you're putting romance into a predefined box saying they have to have a happy ending.

My wife is always watching those 'tear jerker' movies where she's crying because someone dies at the end. They are romances....and also give an air of realism as people lose their true loves in real life all the time.

All genres have sub genres, but still fall under the 'parent' genre.

E.g.

"Titanic"

"The English Patient"

"Brokeback Mountain"

"The Bridges Of Madison County"

The ending needs to fit the story. Don't do an original cut of "Blade Runner" - wedging a happy ending in because you think that's what people want.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I guess "Love Story" wasn't a romance then?

Nor, apparently, are Romeo & Juliet, or Casablanca.

My wife is always watching those 'tear jerker' movies where she's crying because someone dies at the end.

"Titanic"

"The English Patient"

"Brokeback Mountain"

"The Bridges Of Madison County"

Stop for a moment there. Notice how heavily y'all are depending on film examples? This is a thread about text stories, and terminology does differ between media.

Of course, some of these films are adapted from books. So let's see how Amazon describes those books (nb some of these may have multiple listings, I'm just going on the first hits I found):

The Bridges Of Madison County:
#1,981 in Women's Divorce Fiction
#2,934 in Classic American Literature
#9,058 in Women's Domestic Life Fiction

The English Patient:
#759 in Classic Literary Fiction
#843 in Classic Historical Fiction
#2,231 in Historical Literary Fiction

Close Range: Brokeback Mountain and other stories:
#1,407 in Western Short Stories
#1,846 in Contemporary Western Fiction
#2,354 in U.S. Short Stories

One of the biggest corporations on the planet, a business that has teams of researchers dedicated to selling books, has opted not to label those books as "romance", because they understand that readers who look for "romance" as a genre are expecting a HEA.

Are they romantic, do they contain romance? Sure. And tomato is a fruit, but people don't expect to find it in a fruit salad. Alice Cooper is Christian, and he plays rock which often has Christian influences, but you don't look for his albums under "Christian Rock".

AFAICT the only one that does get classified as "romance" is Love Story:
#1,052 in American Historical Romance (Books)
#2,173 in Classic American Fiction
#2,373 in Classic Romance Fiction

Why the difference? I couldn't say for sure, but I'd note that it's a couple of decades older than the other three. Maybe it got grandfathered in, back when expectations of "romance" were broader than they tend to be now, and Amazon left it in the niche where it was already established.

(Going back a bit further, "romance" as a genre covered just about any kind of fiction. But meanings change.)

It's no skin off my nose. You can advertise your stories however you like, but if you sell them as "romance" and then deliver a downer ending, you can expect a significant chunk of your readership to be unhappy with that choice. Whether you want to factor that into how you categorise them is entirely your call.

 

[Bramblethorn]

In the early days of opera (17th century), most audiences would not put up with a sad ending. A plot that was headed toward a definitely tragic ending had to be "fixed" to avoid it. Usually, this meant some sort of "deus ex machina" which averted the inevitable disaster. This resulted in some of the most ridiculous plots and completely unnatural and unbelievable situations. It was almost a century before opera reformers like Gluck came along and restored some sense of dramatic integrity.

Not only opera. For about 150 years, King Lear was performed with a happy ending!

 

[Rustyoznail]

Stop for a moment there. Notice how heavily y'all are depending on film examples? This is a thread about text stories, and terminology does differ between media.

Well, yes. That's because I quoted Lovecraft who stated his wife loves tearjerker movies.

And I agree there's a difference with different media, as you pointed out. As for whether they are in the "right" category - I'm staying well away from that. There's enough of that discussion here.

 

[lovecraft68]

Stop for a moment there. Notice how heavily y'all are depending on film examples?

People who enjoy romance novels, enjoy romance movies, same audience.

If your point is the ratings aren't as high in the amazon rankings those books have all been around for a long time, that and amazon's ratings are a goddamn joke all the way around. This sites top lists have more substance to them these days.

My point is you're trying to push a category towards one thing, maybe that is the majority, people want a HEA, especially with the shithole world we live in now, but there are people that aren't such babies that they can handle a tragic ending to a romantic story.

And as you mentioned earlier...not exactly losing money here if the story is a 4.6 instead of the soft as hell 4.80 any happy sickeningly sweet romance story gets for going "yay" happy

Hell, I have a blue W in romance, and it did end happy, but for 90% of the story it was a train wreck.

No genre has a set "it has to be X" this is an example of why the OP is questioning their story

 

[TadOverdon]

If Achilles and Patroclus don't die, one might as well just use "Frank" and "Forrester" instead.

The Iliad cannot be made to fit the definition of "Romance" as a commercial genre being advanced as so important, then, without distorting and abandoning the core material.

Tho God knows Madeline Miller seems to have tried.

 

[karaline]

Not only opera. For about 150 years, King Lear was performed with a happy ending!

I did not know that!

 

[karaline]

You've convinced me, I'm going to stick to my guns.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.