A question about pronouns in lesbian stories?

[Dubinsky]

I'm working on my third story, and I'm starting to think I might need to branch out into hetero stories... just 'cause I have a hard time during sex scenes keeping the "she" and "her" pronouns straight.

I feel like I'm overusing the womens' names in place of shorter, snappier pronouns. Is this a problem other authors have? I'm sure people who write in Gay Male have the same issue.

 

[NotWise]

I haven't written much Lesbian and no GM, but the problem isn't unique.

In context, you can drop "her" from some sentences, because it's understood. "I kissed her soft lips" can become "I kissed soft lips" without a loss. I'm sure there are other work-arounds, some of which extend from how you replace "she."

For "she" you can judiciously substitute a nickname, term of affection, or something like a title: "my sweet," "freckle-face," "miss cum-a-lot," etc. That can be overdone, but it does break up the monotonous pronouns. Normally you'd only need one alternate name to break up the alternation of she's and proper nouns.

 

[Dubinsky]

I haven't written much Lesbian and no GM, but the problem isn't unique.

In context, you can drop "her" from some sentences, because it's understood. "I kissed her soft lips" can become "I kissed soft lips" without a loss. I'm sure there are other work-arounds, some of which extend from how you replace "she."

For "she" you can judiciously substitute a nickname, term of affection, or something like a title: "my sweet," "freckle-face," "miss cum-a-lot," etc. That can be overdone, but it does break up the monotonous pronouns. Normally you'd only need one alternate name to break up the alternation of she's and proper nouns.

Thank you! Your second paragraph gave me an idea: first person.

Might solve the problem.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It helps to let dialogue carry a lot of the weight. Establish pet names for the characters, as NotWise advised. That will give you more options. Mix up the characters calling each other by their names and their pet names.

 

[Dubinsky]

It helps to let dialogue carry a lot of the weight. Establish pet names for the characters, as NotWise advised. That will give you more options. Mix up the characters calling each other by their names and their pet names.

Thank you!

I'm finding the problem is more of an issue during expository parts, and during the sex scenes. The dialog seems to be okay.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Or use their descriptions, eg. “The blonde woman pulled her head up” or “dark hands ran over freckled skin” or “the plump girl shiver with happiness”.

 

[Dubinsky]

Or use their descriptions, eg. “The blonde woman pulled her head up” or “dark hands ran over freckled skin” or “the plump girl shiver with happiness”.

That's what I find myself doing, and I guess it works. But it seems cumbersome.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Thank you!

I'm finding the problem is more of an issue during expository parts, and during the sex scenes. The dialog seems to be okay.

No reason not to include dialogue in the sex scenes.

 

[NotWise]

No reason not to include dialogue in the sex scenes.

Even over the grunt level.

 

[NotWise]

For "she" you can judiciously substitute a nickname, term of affection, or something like a title: "my sweet," "freckle-face," "miss cum-a-lot," etc. That can be overdone, but it does break up the monotonous pronouns. Normally you'd only need one alternate name to break up the alternation of she's and proper nouns.

I can't believe I missed this. "miss cum-a-lot" needed to be "queen of cum-a-lot." That queen might not have needed sir "lance-a-lot," and the whole mess could have been averted.

 

[KeithD]

I'm sure people who write in Gay Male have the same issue.

Yes, and I usually add some distinguishing trait: The older one, the younger one, the blond, the ginger, the dominator, the submissive, etc. to use when the names get tiresome and a pronoun wouldn't clearly identify.

 

[Dubinsky]

Yes, and I usually add some distinguishing trait: The older one, the younger one, the blond, the ginger, the dominator, the submissive, etc. to use when the names get tiresome and a pronoun wouldn't clearly identify.

This, I've also been doing. It seems awkward to me

But it might not read as awkwardly as it sounds in my head. Right now I'm thinking I might try something in first person, though it's never really been something I'm into.

Oh well, though, words are cheap. I can always try a bunch of different stuff and see what sticks.

Thanks so much,everyone. This is really helpful, just knowing it's something others have dealt with.

 

[NotWise]

This, I've also been doing. It seems awkward to me

But it might not read as awkwardly as it sounds in my head. Right now I'm thinking I might try something in first person, though it's never really been something I'm into.

Oh well, though, words are cheap. I can always try a bunch of different stuff and see what sticks.

Thanks so much,everyone. This is really helpful, just knowing it's something others have dealt with.

First person solves some problems and causes others. My choice depends on how I imagine the story and on how I want to engage my readers.

You can usually find a way to tell the same story either way.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Using names can work, especially if they're short names - my characters Ali and Becca in 'Wheelchair Bound?' started life as A and B...
Differing endearments - if one uses 'sweetie' or 'honey', make sure the other never does. If their dialogue is sufficiently different you don't need many dialogue tags.

Descriptors like 'the blonde' can work when used sparingly but when overused start looking like teenager-written fanfic.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Using names can work, especially if they're short names - my characters Ali and Becca in 'Wheelchair Bound?' started life as A and B...
Differing endearments - if one uses 'sweetie' or 'honey', make sure the other never does. If their dialogue is sufficiently different you don't need many dialogue tags.

Yep, and behaviour can do the same outside dialogue - if one person likes to top and the other to bottom, it'll usually be pretty clear which "she" is which.

Descriptors like 'the blonde' can work when used sparingly but when overused start looking like teenager-written fanfic.

Co-signed.

 

[TadOverdon]

Reading this with interest as it's a challenge I encounter often. It's a problem with group sex as well as gay sex.

I use most of these approaches; all work sometimes and none work all the time IMHO.

The least useful to me is the "attributes" approach - "the blonde woman," etc. Writing third-person but usually working from a single character's POV in a given passage, it feels distancing to me. But that's personal taste.

 

[Trionyx]

You can also make several paragraphs feature one particular sexual act. When you’re describing female one going down on female two, it’s very clear whose pussy is getting the attention. Then all the names and pronouns are not needed until the action switches in another direction.

 

[tomlitilia]

Beyond the suggestion of 1st person perspective (which doesn't always work) and at least sparse use of physical attributes, it helps to establish the relationship between the women and use that for reference. For instance, in "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her panties," it's unclear if Felicia is stripping herself or Amanda. In "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her teacher's panties," it's clear, assuming Amanda is the teacher, that Amanda is getting stripped. It kind of also works for equal status relationships, e.g. "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her friend's panties." If Amanda and Felicia are friends and there's no other person in the room, only intentional misinterpretation would interpret this as Felicia stripping herself.

 

[Dubinsky]

Beyond the suggestion of 1st person perspective (which doesn't always work) and at least sparse use of physical attributes, it helps to establish the relationship between the women and use that for reference. For instance, in "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her panties," it's unclear if Felicia is stripping herself or Amanda. In "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her teacher's panties," it's clear, assuming Amanda is the teacher, that Amanda is getting stripped. It kind of also works for equal status relationships, e.g. "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her friend's panties." If Amanda and Felicia are friends and there's no other person in the room, only intentional misinterpretation would interpret this as Felicia stripping herself.

I appreciate this. I try to do this already.

I think the problem I'm having is with flow. I'm working hard at trying to avoid sentence constructions that sound contrived, and a lot of what I'm putting in my stories feels that way to me.

 

[LAHomedog]

I appreciate this. I try to do this already.

I think the problem I'm having is with flow. I'm working hard at trying to avoid sentence constructions that sound contrived, and a lot of what I'm putting in my stories feels that way to me.

When I hit the wall on stuff like this I write it as if it is a screenplay. I visualize the different shots, the cuts, the takes, the dialogue, the looks, the reactions. I "watch the show" in my mind. And when it is clear in the movie/TV show that I am watching in my mind's eye, I write that down.

Mind you, I am a screenwriter, so maybe this might not work for you. And the visual adds a 2nd language to the entire story when it is on a screen, but gosh, it never fails: When I can see it with clarity in my mind's eye, it makes sense and has clarity on the page.

 

[Trionyx]

Beyond the suggestion of 1st person perspective (which doesn't always work) and at least sparse use of physical attributes, it helps to establish the relationship between the women and use that for reference. For instance, in "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her panties," it's unclear if Felicia is stripping herself or Amanda. In "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her teacher's panties," it's clear, assuming Amanda is the teacher, that Amanda is getting stripped. It kind of also works for equal status relationships, e.g. "Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her friend's panties." If Amanda and Felicia are friends and there's no other person in the room, only intentional misinterpretation would interpret this as Felicia stripping herself.

These are nice suggestions to clarify the confusion. That being said, a pronoun technically refers to the last noun mentioned. “Felicia looked at Amanda and removed her panties,” would be interpreted as Felicia removing Amanda’s panties. However, since the “rule” is violated all the time by many authors and since it is important to make sure we know whose knickers hit the deck, go with the recommendations about friends, teachers and any other modifiers you can come up with.

 

[SimonDoom]

That being said, a pronoun technically refers to the last noun mentioned. .

Be careful about generalizations.

Ex: John picked up the gun. He fired it.


"He' does not refer to the last noun -- "gun." It refers to John.

Strict compliance with grammar rules and clarity aren't always the same thing.

 

[Trionyx]

Be careful about generalizations.

Ex: John picked up the gun. He fired it.


"He' does not refer to the last noun -- "gun." It refers to John.

Strict compliance with grammar rules and clarity aren't always the same thing.

You are absolutely correct however generally one doesn’t use neutral pronouns when referring to a person. I should have been more detailed in my comment. It refers to the gun, he refers to John.

 

[LAHomedog]

What happens when your character is non-binary, fluid gender and the pronouns are they and them?

Not transgender, non-binary. I you are in first person, for example, I would be kissing them. In the lesbian story that started this thread the writer would be mixing she, her and they, them.

So she would be going down on their pussy. Or "I was making out with them when they put their hand on my breast. Or in third person, She was making out with them when they put their hands on her breast.

More and more folks are announcing as non-binary. Someone close in my family is of the younger generation. How does that change the question and the mix with six pronouns not four?

 

[Bramblethorn]

What happens when your character is non-binary, fluid gender and the pronouns are they and them?

Not transgender, non-binary. I you are in first person, for example, I would be kissing them. In the lesbian story that started this thread the writer would be mixing she, her and they, them.

So she would be going down on their pussy. Or "I was making out with them when they put their hand on my breast. Or in third person, She was making out with them when they put their hands on her breast.

More and more folks are announcing as non-binary. Someone close in my family is of the younger generation. How does that change the question and the mix with six pronouns not four?

The complication it adds is that "they" could mean either one person or multiple.

That isn't a new challenge. Ever since we dropped "thee" from the language, most English speakers have been capable of dealing with the idea that "you" can refer to either one person or several, and can usually figure out which one is meant from context. The ambiguity of they/them can be dealt with in the same kind of ways; it isn't any harder, just less familiar.

For instance, from Sarah Gailey's "River of Teeth":

Hero opened their eyes and considered Houndstooth, who was perched on the edge of the divan, stiff-backed, holding his hat in his lap. They cocked their head and smiled.

...

Hero smiled, watching the water below them. "Well, Winslow. There's only one bed in here." They turned their head, still smiling, and took in Houndstooth's rich pink blush. "And last I counted, there's two of us."

OTOH, sometimes ambiguity presents fun possibilities:

Cal looked extremely dubious. "I've never heard of a remote detonator."

"That's because I invented them," Hero responded icily.

"I've seen them work," Houndstooth confirmed. He stared at Hero with an admiring smile. "They're amazing."