Should he be called a Cuckold if he's cool with it?

[DanDraper]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but should a husband be called a cuckold if he is ok with his wife being with other men?

The definition of a cuckold is a husband of an unfaithful wife. Meaning she is cheating on him without him knowing about it or even if he does know he doesn't approve of it.

So if he is totally cool with his wife being with other men, and even encouraging it, she is clearly not being unfaithful to him. She's only unfaithful if she's doing it behind his back and he disapproves of the idea.

We see this a lot in hotwife stories where the guy is being called a cuckold, but technically speaking he shouldn't be.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

He is still a cuckold, yet in the world of cuckolds he and his wife may be call themselves a vixen and a stag. In todays world cuckold has a new definition, that of being humiliated by the wife and her bulls.

 

[RejectReality]

The definition of the word says no. If you're going by the book, he's a wittol.

Thing is, the common parlance has changed. The word cuckold has evolved to not only include willing participants, but actually overshadow the original meaning.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think there's a "right" answer to this question.

As far as I can tell, there are basically three different scenarios:

1. The wife cheats on the husband, without his knowledge and/or approval. The husband is not happy with the situation. This is the classic cuckold.

2. The wife has sex with men not her husband, and the husband knows and consents, but his humiliation is part of the experience that both wife and husband enjoy. Some men enjoy humiliation. This is the "knowing cuckold" experience. The husband and wife in this situation enjoy thinking of the husband as a cuckold.

3. The wife has sex with men not her husband, and the husband knows and consents, but no humiliation is involved. In fact, the husband may orchestrate the wife's sexual liaisons with other men. The husband may enjoy having a hot wife/slut wife. This is often referred to as a stag/vixen relationship. Those who are into this sort of thing usually don't think of the husband as a cuckold. Those who find this relationship repellent often DO refer to the husband as a cuckold.

It's a matter of perspective. It's not a debate that's ever going to be won.

 

[TadOverdon]

The custom seems to be "yes."

 

[KeithD]

The definition of the word says no. If you're going by the book, he's a wittol.

This.

 

[KeithD]

I prefer not to use any of the suggestions above. I don't see the need to name behaviors.

When I'm meaning wittol when I'm writing rather than cuckold, I very definitely make sure to use "wittol," because much of the use of "cuckold" is just wrong, by definition. I think the wittol concept is a more interesting one to write.

 

[NotWise]

I prefer not to use any of the suggestions above. I don't see the need to name behaviors.

I was going to say the same thing. If you don't need the label, then don't use it.

 

[KeithD]

Use of categories and tags is labeling. You use categories to differentiate and help readers get to material they want to read. I don't get this "I don't label" my characters assertion. Of course you do in connecting with readers. There's no big deal in using the term "cuckold" or "wittol," which are two different categories of story--which isn't well understood here. They'd most usefully be used in the tags, which is all about labeling to be helpful to the reader. I don't get why this is a big "I don't do that" deal.

The answer to the OP's scenario is that this is "wittol," not "cuckold." Simple question; simple answer.

 

[NikiVien]

I always think of a cuckold as a man in a female-led relationship, if he is fully involved in his wife's extramarital sex life, without the humiliation and denial, I wouldn't refer to him as a cuckold, as it's not the dynamic that most would associate with the word.

 

[KeithD]

It's not really an issue that requires a whole lot of conceptualization. "Cuckold" and "wittol" are both defined in the dictionaries--and are differentiated by the husband's attitude to the wife's activity with another man.

What I don't think is defined (maybe someone can provide the terms) are the reversal roles--a wife in responding to a husband's activity with another woman. What's the wife when (a) she's being duped about it, and (b) when she knows about it and is fine with it--maybe even enjoys being a voyeur?

And then there's the husband and wife and another woman with the wife and the wife and the husband and another man with the husband.

 

[lovecraft68]

If the wife sleeps with other men and the husband is fine with it or maybe even watches or wants her to get pics or film it, at that point to me she's a hot wife, but they're also a form or swinger or open couple. He's sharing his wife so I don't think cuck or wittol apply.

But what I think, or the OP or anyone else here thinks doesn't matter

The brain dead mouth breathers of LW readership will call him a cuck anyway. I think cuckold is for the advanced readers there who can occasionally grasp a two syllable word.

 

[Payne_Hall]

But what I think, or the OP or anyone else here thinks doesn't matter

The brain dead mouth breathers of LW readership will call him a cuck anyway. I think cuckold is for the advanced readers there who can occasionally grasp a two syllable word.

I get really excited whenever anything to do with LW is mentioned because I feel like it’s akin to chanting “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn” for Lovecraft

 

[lovecraft68]

I get really excited whenever anything to do with LW is mentioned because I feel like it’s akin to chanting “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn” for Lovecraft

Ah ha! I knew you were an alt of a descendent of Legrasse!

I like to trash the trash, what can I say?

 

[TadOverdon]

It's funny, these days when I read "cuckold" I think of the sexual kink and when I read "cuck" I think "political wingnut posting."

That may not be entirely fair.

 

[SimonDoom]

It's funny, these days when I read "cuckold" I think of the sexual kink and when I read "cuck" I think "political wingnut posting."

That may not be entirely fair.

Pretty damn close, I think.

 

[Payne_Hall]

Ah ha! I knew you were an alt of a descendent of Legrasse!

I like to trash the trash, what can I say?

Shhhhhhh, New Orleans is an odd place. We cannot speak too loudly.

Also, I feel like a lot of the stories on the LW top list are slow build stories.

 

[lovecraft68]

Shhhhhhh, New Orleans is an odd place. We cannot speak too loudly.

Also, I feel like a lot of the stories on the LW top list are slow build stories.

I've never really looked at the top list, its amazing that some stories over there manage to get decent scores.

Used to be a much better-and more varied-category, even had some romance stories there with HEA...then the bad element moved in and there went the neighborhood.

 

[gordo12]

It's not really an issue that requires a whole lot of conceptualization. "Cuckold" and "wittol" are both defined in the dictionaries--and are differentiated by the husband's attitude to the wife's activity with another man

Unfortunately, most don't read dictionaries. I've watched the evolution of this word for the last 15+ years on various swinger boards—the same argument for years now.

The trend toward calling ALL activity cuck is driven by those that don't bother to look it up. Even when you post the dictionary versions, they don't give a fuck. I believe there is even an urban dictionary version that supports them.

If your wife is with another guy, it's cuck! And if it's in LW....look out

 

[Handley_Page]

When I'm meaning wittol when I'm writing rather than cuckold, I very definitely make sure to use "wittol," because much of the use of "cuckold" is just wrong, by definition. I think the wittol concept is a more interesting one to write.

I'd never heard fo this word:-

wittol

noun archaic
noun: wittol; plural noun: wittols

a man who is aware and tolerant of his wife's infidelity; an acquiescent cuckold.​

 

[KeithD]

Unfortunately, most don't read dictionaries.

As it doesn't bother me what others do with their stories (although if they ask, I'll give them the publishing industry response), it doesn't go all the way to "unfortunately" for me. Just sort of a "shrug," especially if after being given the publishing industry response they choose to stick with their crazy Aunt Hazel's opinion on the matter.

 

[RetroFan]

In a story I'm writing at the moment, the husband is unaware that he is not the father of his young son. His wife's cousin is the father of the son, although the husband is the biological father of the couple's two daughters.

Would this husband be a cuckold, unknowingly raising a son who is not his biological child?

 

[XerXesXu]

I'd never heard fo this word:-

wittol

noun archaic
noun: wittol; plural noun: wittols

a man who is aware and tolerant of his wife's infidelity; an acquiescent cuckold.​

Me neither.

Great thread, I'm learning a lot. Even new words.

There's discussion about dictionary definitions versus folk definitions. My particular interest is the tension between dictionary definition and self-identification. Why do some willingly accept the label of say cuckold or cuck, and others resent it?

It's one thing to say x has been cuckolded, which may be determined as a matter of fact. It happens a lot. It's completely different to say a person who’s been cuckolded is a cuckold. They may not self-identify as a cuckold, they're a victim of unhappy circumstances beyond their control. How they react is important.

Some embrace the term, they take pleasure in being a cuckold, they're a party to the cuckoldry. Others don't and aren't. They see the label as pejorative. Why should they have the label foisted on them? Where is the line to be drawn?

There's a general awareness of where the more atavistic of LW fans draw the line - if you don't Burn the Bitch, you're a Cuckold. Should that be the standard to which a dictionary definition should hold them? Really? Victim shaming! In 21C is that socially acceptable? Now; when calling a chick-with-a-dick a man can get you cancelled?

The OP asks:

ScatterBrain2020

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but should a husband be called a cuckold if he is ok with his wife being with other men?

The definition of a cuckold is a husband of an unfaithful wife. Meaning she is cheating on him without him knowing about it or even if he does know he doesn't approve of it.

So if he is totally cool with his wife being with other men, and even encouraging it, she is clearly not being unfaithful to him. She's only unfaithful if she's doing it behind his back and he disapproves of the idea.

We see this a lot in hotwife stories where the guy is being called a cuckold, but technically speaking he shouldn't be.

We have:

1. the unknowing victim (whose mates down the pub snigger at him behind his back.)
2. the unwilling victim (whose mates down the pub tease him about it.)
3. the negligent husband (whose mates down the pub fuck his wife.)
4. the collusive husband (who invites his mates from down the pub to come back with him at closing time and fuck his wife.)

They can’t all be comprised in the term cuckold.

4. I’ve learned is a wittol, a word which I shall try never to use again. I think Stag’s been suggested as an alternative. Sexy and dignified.
2. may fall within the common understanding of one who has been cuckolded. Even though he self-identifies as a wronged husband seeking to repair his marriage, should he be further victimized by being labeled a cuckold, because he fails to BTB? What can he be called?

But 3. He may not be entirely blameless. Maybe he’s a drunk. Just a fuck-up reduced to a condition of learned-helplessness. One of life’s trailer-park trash. He’s looked upon with contempt by society at large. His one satisfaction in life may be wanking off while fantasising about her being fucked by the other trailer park trash, his last meaningful emotional tie to her. But it’s not his fault, he has no agency, he requires therapy. Are the atavists the ones qualified to give him the therapy needs? Should they be allowed to label him a cuckold?

There’s nothing really to be said about 1.

Then there’s an important confound, a psychological divide. Just as some resent being labeled a cuckold, some actually want to self-identify as a cuckold. It meets a deep psychological need, a psychological cuckold. Or in short, a psychold. Psycholdry emraces any of 1 to 4, and even many whose wives are faithful, and incredibly, incels. They fantisise about being pscholds.

Incels have a fairly well developed, almost psychotic, narrative. But those with available partners are more difficult to pin down. In some parts they echo the incel narrative – I am not worthy – the world is made for Craigs, or whatever his name, God ordained his place and mine in the world, he gave me a 3in dick and Craig a 9in dick. Smile, be happy, masturbate.

In short, people with very low self-esteem crave to be called cuckolds, but they’re psycholds. Those teetering on the edge of losing all self-esteem and plunging into the abyss of psycholdry, I would guess, form the large part of the atavists. They know that with a gentle push they would be lost and the upwelling of anger on LW is them, in denial, raging against an unjust world.

The other confound is women, as has been mentioned. In 21C is it permissible for our sisters in the inverse relationship to be simply ignored and unlabelled.

What would you call your wife?

 

[SimonDoom]

In short, people with very low self-esteem crave to be called cuckolds, but they’re psycholds. Those teetering on the edge of losing all self-esteem and plunging into the abyss of psycholdry, I would guess, form the large part of the atavists. They know that with a gentle push they would be lost and the upwelling of anger on LW is them, in denial, raging against an unjust world.

I don't think we can assume all those with the cuckold fantasy lack self-esteem, any more than we can assume that women who have submissive fantasies lack self-esteem. People have and live fantasies for many, many reasons.

My sense is that the male humiliation fantasy is much, much more popular than many people realize.

 

[XerXesXu]

I don't think we can assume all those with the cuckold fantasy lack self-esteem, any more than we can assume that women who have submissive fantasies lack self-esteem. People have and live fantasies for many, many reasons.

My sense is that the male humiliation fantasy is much, much more popular than many people realize.

The issue isn't whether people have a wide variety of fantasies. It's understanding the variety. I can explain to myself why I would love to fuck Lulu Chu, or any other female. I just picked her out at random. Honestly.

Do you believe me? No you don't. You understand perfectly why I chose her, even if you would have chosen her grandmother. You prefer women your own age, it's natural.

I read:

https://www.literotica.com/s/when-lance-banged-the-camgirl

the other day, all the way through, and in line with policy gave it 5. It's a big-me-up fantasy, absurdly over the top, but I understand the fantasy perfectly. I can understand why it pressed the authors buttons.

I have difficulty with the dynamics of a put-me-down fantasy. Where do those buttons come from? They don't exist in my world.

I have no problem with things like gender fluidity, submission and so on. There are range of physiological and psychological explanations. Reading the sissy threads I can see where they're probably coming from, though most people would object to being called a sissy. Adherence to extreme sissydom, which seems to interact with other kinks, not so much.

But humiliation, including cuckoldry, if humiliation is the correct word, is tautologically, humiliating. A bad emotional experience which most people with the self-esteem we are encouraged to develop from childhood, would avoid like the plague. Being paraded before the regiment and ritually degraded. Not enjoyable for most people.

What is the missing variable? If you exclude loss or abandonment of moral agency, the only other thing I can think of is self-esteem. You were built broke, you weren't built to have dreams and achieve, you were built as a tool for others to use to achieve theirs. Don't agonise, accept why you're here. Take what pleasure there is to be had in your shitty world.

Others insights always welcome.