Readers confused between fiction and fact

[Payne_Hall]

As an aside...wouldn't you love to meet one of those yutzes you looked up on youtube in person? "Strong successful male" ohhh....scary. The other guy should call himself "obviously a bachelor"

I feel like the conversation couldn’t be very interesting. The circular logic thought processing would just ensure they’d keep going back to whatever they were obsessing over at the time with nothing new added.

Also, I have a fascination with burn the bitch stories. I feel like it is to violent noncon what bratty behavior is to masochism.

 

[TadOverdon]

Somewhat off-topic, I categorized chapter two of the book I'm currently posting here as "Novels and Novellas" rather than "Incest/Taboo" and I'd say I'm getting about 15 percent of the hits I do in the Taboo category and no comments so far. It's ranking a little better than chapter one, though.

This will be an interesting thing for me to watch. Chapter Three is probably going in "Novels and Novellas" as well, while Four and Five will be categorized "Incest/Taboo."

 

[ElectricBlue]

Somewhat off-topic, I categorized chapter two of the book I'm currently posting here as "Novels and Novellas" rather than "Incest/Taboo" and I'd say I'm getting about 15 percent of the hits I do in the Taboo category and no comments so far. It's ranking a little better than chapter one, though.

This will be an interesting thing for me to watch. Chapter Three is probably going in "Novels and Novellas" as well, while Four and Five will be categorized "Incest/Taboo."

Curiosity question - how long are the chapters, and what's your logic for the category shifting?

I've seen writers post whole long novels into Novels and Novellas, but this is the first time I've seen someone do what you're doing - N&N not being a kink category as such (unless the action's set in a library ). It's an odd approach, I'd have thought.

 

[SimonDoom]

Somewhat off-topic, I categorized chapter two of the book I'm currently posting here as "Novels and Novellas" rather than "Incest/Taboo" and I'd say I'm getting about 15 percent of the hits I do in the Taboo category and no comments so far. It's ranking a little better than chapter one, though.

This will be an interesting thing for me to watch. Chapter Three is probably going in "Novels and Novellas" as well, while Four and Five will be categorized "Incest/Taboo."

Why would you do this? What is the thinking behind it? It makes no sense to me.

Literotica readers seek stories based on their kinks. "Novels and Novellas" is not a kink. It's just a signal to readers that your story is really long. Why in the world would you label chapter one as incest and then label chapter 2 as "Novels and Novellas"? I can't think of a better way to lose your readers.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Great minds, Simon, great minds .

 

[TadOverdon]

Curiosity question - how long are the chapters, and what's your logic for the category shifting?

I've seen writers post whole long novels into Novels and Novellas, but this is the first time I've seen someone do what you're doing - N&N not being a kink category as such (unless the action's set in a library ). It's an odd approach, I'd have thought.

Well, the reason I brought this up, off-topic, here is because I was noting earlier in this topic (I think) that I got angry comments from readers who looked at Chapter One of a novella that will contain a great deal of incest and found only a passing flashback reference to it in that chapter.

It seems to me that going four chapters into the novella before getting to the incest, and then not having it in every chapter, is as likely to "lose my readers" as anything else.

Because, you know, it's a long story with a lot of characters. Some of them are doing the taboo stuff. Some of them, like the main character's 25-year-old daughter, are active and get their own chapters but are not incestuous. And some aren't at first, and are later. Etc, etc and so forth.

So, I thought I'd switch to the other category. The problem there, as you note, is that people looking for particular kinks aren't so likely to go looking for them in a generic category descriptive of length and format rather than content.

Looking around, I have seen other writers of chapter stories here who tailor the category of each chapter to the specific content. One in particular has a novel which is Gay/Male with one or two chapters categorized as "Incest/Taboo" involving an older female family member with a younger male.

Seeing that Literotica properly displays all of these chapters as belonging to the same single long work on the author's story page, I'm thinking that this may be my best solution.

We'll see. I'm just getting started here, and I'm definitely persuadable by more experienced posters. You think I should just list all the forthcoming chapters as Incest/Taboo?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Well, the reason I brought this up, off-topic, here is because I was noting earlier that I got angry comments from readers who looked at Chapter One of a novella that will contain a great deal of incest and found only a passing flashback reference to it in that chapter.

This is one of the downfalls of publishing each chapter as you write it. If you had the whole thing written and published in one go, you could have dropped it as one long story in I&T - then the only bitch might be how long it was, but overall you'd get a better result, I think.

How long are the chapters?

Simon will advise further as to the reaction of penguins.

 

[TadOverdon]

Oh, the whole thing's been written for years. And two more. And a fourth, a new one, after it stops earning out over at Smashwords. And later in the year, a fifth.

My partner started long novellas (33,000-38,000 words) and posted them online in different places, would lose the thread of them and not get back to finish them for years. I think this one only got finished because I got involved. And it doesn't seem fair to me to invite readers to invest in a story that you might leave unfinished.

If I were George R.R. Martin I might feel very differently.

 

[RetroFan]

Some countries and cultures do not accept the idea of fiction at all. If it is written it is either factual, or a lie.

I think some anons believe that too. They think everything written on Lit is a true account of a real event and therefore get triggered.

My femdom stories, particularly if there is an element of non-consent, can drive them to fury.

That's very interesting, I thought practically all cultures and countries at least in recent centuries had some concept of fiction; what are some of the exceptions? Even in North Korea reading is apparently a popular pastime, although just what North Koreans can read is heavily regulated by the government.

 

[oggbashan]

That's very interesting, I thought practically all cultures and countries at least in recent centuries had some concept of fiction; what are some of the exceptions? Even in North Korea reading is apparently a popular pastime, although just what North Koreans can read is heavily regulated by the government.

Some Muslim countries regard fiction as almost blasphemous.

 

[PennameWombat]

That's very interesting, I thought practically all cultures and countries at least in recent centuries had some concept of fiction; what are some of the exceptions? Even in North Korea reading is apparently a popular pastime, although just what North Koreans can read is heavily regulated by the government.

Some Muslim countries regard fiction as almost blasphemous.

I don’t have deep knowledge of this subject/point, but on the Q&A website “Quora” there is a stream of questions that seem to imply these beliefs.

For instance, (paraphrases), “can writers make up names?” “Can writers make up words?” “Can writers use their imaginations?” Not ‘how’ to do these things (plenty of those questions exist too) but seeming doubt about doing these things at all.

Given that ‘on the internet no one knows you’re a dog,’ how much to trust the profiles of such askers is in question. But if you take them at face value they seem to run in an arc from North Africa through to the Indian subcontinent.

There are many other kinds of questions on that site around writing, publishing, etc., that are much more widely spread in origin but the particular sub-sub-category above seems more geographically focused.

 

[TimexTicks]

Well, fuck me!

I'm sorry if this is a little out of line or has been said many times. I'm new to this, having submitted a dozen stories over the past few weeks. But I have been really shocked at the nastiness and vitriol of some of the responses to my stories. I get that if I can write stuff I wouldn't do in real life they can write things they wouldn't say in real life. But what's got me is the confusion between reality and fiction. They actually start laying into me and my fictional cheating wife demanding that I write something awful and violent and misogynistic about this poor horny frustrated woman who is no more than a figment of my overwrought imagination.
I do enjoy writing this stuff but I didn't know there were so many strange insecure men in the world.
Dave

I guess I have this to look forward to then. Not only have I just submitted my first stories (and this is my first forum post for that matter), that got rejected the first time because my titles didn't match (my bad, first timer mistake), but my stories are about my wife and her screwing around. Now, in my stories, I know about it, but the other side of cuckold is "Stag and Vixen." At least, that's how I see it. As I've told her in real life, she's my favorite fantasy, so it's ok to fantasize. Trust me, I don't run around doing these things, but my stories are about it because it's a turn on.

Having said that, I'll try to check back once my stories are published. Should anyone read them and comment, I'll let you know what they say. And to top it off, yes, I put them in Loving Wives. FML LOL

 

[TadOverdon]

Change the name of the category to Loving Wives, Raging Incels.

 

[RetroFan]

It's quite odd that some groups would reject ALL fiction rather than specific fictional works, especially as fiction can be used as very effective propaganda.

For example, I've seen cases of some fundamentalist Christian groups not liking fantasy/magic fiction for kids and teenagers, such as the Harry Potter series. But while they may not like Harry Potter books and movies, it seems weird to condemn ALL fictional books and movies. If there was a movie about a Christian summer bible camp, where the adults running the camp, the wholesome teenagers working there as counsellors and the kids attending made fundamentalist Christianity look great, then surely this work of propaganda wouldn't be considered 'bad'.

 

[oggbashan]

Some Christian groups as well. Not sure why you picked only one specific religion here.

Because they were the first and most obvious to come to mind. The response to Rushdie's Satanic Verses inspired my post. The Arabian Nights couldn't be written now. It is also true of some other cultures and religions as well. Fiction, historically, is a modern product.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm sorry if this is a little out of line or has been said many times. I'm new to this, having submitted a dozen stories over the past few weeks.
.
I do enjoy writing this stuff but I didn't know there were so many strange insecure men in the world.
Dave

The snag is that there are those who cannot tell the difference between fantasy and fact. They are probably responsible for more 'peculiar law' than anyone else.

 

[TimexTicks]

If I may, don't forget...

The snag is that there are those who cannot tell the difference between fantasy and fact. They are probably responsible for more 'peculiar law' than anyone else.

If I may be so bold as to add to Handley's comment, add the "willfully ignorant" and the "willfully stupid."

I look at it like music. I like most music genres, but there are some I just don't/won't listen to. Same with fiction. But there are those in the world that will label you because of that.

"Oh, you don't like K-Pop? Well, you must hate all Koreans, you racist!" LOL. They do exist.

All you can do is shrug and say, "I like what I like. Go fuck yourself with a cactus." and walk away.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's quite odd that some groups would reject ALL fiction rather than specific fictional works, especially as fiction can be used as very effective propaganda.

For example, I've seen cases of some fundamentalist Christian groups not liking fantasy/magic fiction for kids and teenagers, such as the Harry Potter series. But while they may not like Harry Potter books and movies, it seems weird to condemn ALL fictional books and movies. If there was a movie about a Christian summer bible camp, where the adults running the camp, the wholesome teenagers working there as counsellors and the kids attending made fundamentalist Christianity look great, then surely this work of propaganda wouldn't be considered 'bad'.

Islam is a big religion with many variations; you can find any position from "everything but the Quran is bad" to "let 'er rip" somewhere out there. I mean, the most prolific author on this site is Muslim...

But AFAICT, the attitude you outline is quite common in Islam: fiction is acceptable as long as it's clear that it is fiction, and that it's not leading people astray (however defined). (Also that it's not becoming too much of a time sink.)

I'm not aware of any majority-Islamic country which prohibits fiction per se. Definitely not Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Fiction that gets into 'blasphemy' territory, now, that is likely to be considered haraam...

Because they were the first and most obvious to come to mind. The response to Rushdie's Satanic Verses inspired my post.

The fatwa against Rushdie was not because TSV was fiction, but because parts of the story directly involved Muhammad and events around the Quran, in ways which were taken as blasphemous. That is widely seen within Islam as forbidden.

 

[oggbashan]

I know WHY The Satanic Verses aroused such fury but that was just the trigger for my thoughts on whether fiction is acceptable per se. To some groups of people, it just isn't.

But they are a minority in most places, but can be a loud-voiced minority.

Lit authors should be aware that some people will regard anyone who writes fiction as anathema.

 

[lovecraft68]

So here's another spin on this.

Considering we're mostly talking about LW


Is it 'people' who confuse fiction/reality or is it....men?

I've always wondered about this, because although there's a lot of anon and you never know for sure, its seems fairly obvious that all the hate is coming from men spurred on by their hatred of women and their own insecurities which is really the basis for that hated, easier to hate someone else than yourself I suppose.

But it doesn't seem like female readers lash out like that. They see something they may not like and its wander off with no comment maybe because they're more mature or maybe because women had long ago accepted the fact they get treated like shit in these types of stories...

Or going further, how many women read those stories? I'm sure the cheating/hot wife fantasy appeals to some, but that category is a pit, and 90% negative spin on women who are all sluts and whores there who should get theirs.

I was raised-as was many guys here-in a time where guys who bitched and moaned and whined were sissies or little girls or weak etc...the men don't cry environment.

I'm not saying that was right, but it was how it was.

Now all I see is men whining. Whining in LW, whining on youtube, whining on social media about these awful women and feminists and as I mentioned earlier even playing this game of acting like they're sexless relationship devoid losers by choice.

The "Men's rights movement?" Give me a fucking break, its been Man's world since day one. I a saw an idiot with a #himtoo bumper sticker last year. Because yes, men are so persecuted...imagine a day and age where women have grown tired of taking your shit, and you actually have to earn a relationship?

There's a lot of good decent men out there, but this faction of whiny shitbags needs to shut the fuck up and grow the fuck up. Especially considering all their tough talk is behind a keyboard and not a peep in real life.

 

[TimexTicks]

So here's another spin on this.

Is it 'people' who confuse fiction/reality or is it....men?

I've always wondered about this, because although there's a lot of anon and you never know for sure, its seems fairly obvious that all the hate is coming from men...

Now all I see is men whining.

There's a lot of good decent men out there, but this faction of whiny shitbags needs to shut the fuck up and grow the fuck up. Especially considering all their tough talk is behind a keyboard and not a peep in real life.

I just quoted you, Lovecraft, to highlight some of my favorite parts of what you wrote. It reminds of the internet meme/post..."Social Media has made too many of you comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the mouth for it."

I'm not advocating violence, btw. It's just that always makes me laugh and nod. It's easy to be a jerk behind a keyboard.

And going back to my first post in this thread, I've had 2 of 5 parts of the story I uploaded published and, well, it didn't take long. The first ratings I got were all 1's (I wasn't expecting 5 stars across the board, but the negative was nearly instant like someone has a bot in place to rate 1's as soon as a story goes up).

Looking at my work, I know it isn't Pulitzer material, but I thought it was enjoyable. I do wish I had read this thread before I published. I wouldn't have picked Loving Wives and won't going forward. I feel like I've wasted my time, actually.

I decided to put my hobby work up here for enjoyment and to see what other people thought. I was naive. I should have known better. Add to that the unwieldy interface and things like having to have MY COMMENT on my OWN STORY reviewed before it is posted, well, that seems dumb. So, I'm rethinking publishing anything else. What've I've posted isn't even complete. It's cheating, stag, vixen, not really Cuckold (half the people don't know what that even means and use it wrong all the time), but I thought it was ok.

Anyways, I'm not enjoying Literotica and it's not the reviews or stuff. The whole publishing experience has just been tedious and navigating around to find things is worse. I might just go back to only reading. This was meant to be a hobby and having a bunch of man-babies, who don't understand categories to begin with, pitch tantrums, yeah, I don't have the patience for that.

Sorry about rambling, but it's taken 2 weeks to get 2 parts of a 5 part group of stories Published, only had one correction to make and that was to match the titles, and then they didn't group them anyways, so I'm feeling like I wasted my time. It's a little aggravating.

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

I just quoted you, Lovecraft, to highlight some of my favorite parts of what you wrote. It reminds of the internet meme/post..."Social Media has made too many of you comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the mouth for it."

A true story: Many, many years ago somebody said the same thing to my older sister that a member said to me in a PM.

Six of our older male cousins, we have no brothers or they would have been there too, had a "conversation" with the guy. It would have been dishonorable for them to fight six against one. So they literally drew straws in front of the asshole for the honor of kicking the living shit out of him while the other five watched.

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

I take a licking and keep on ticking...of course, it was a football nickname, but I had a few good years of other stuff in there as well!

Coined at the Sadie Hawkins game?

 

[TimexTicks]

A true story: Many, many years ago somebody said the same thing to my older sister that a member said to me in a PM.

Six of our older male cousins, we have no brothers or they would have been there too, had a "conversation" with the guy. It would have been dishonorable for them to fight six against one. So they literally drew straws in front of the asshole for the honor of kicking the living shit out of him while the other five watched.

That's an awesome story!!! And I like the way they think.

 

[TimexTicks]

Coined at the Sadie Hawkins game?

I will have you know, Avro, that I had a very prolific Pee Wee and Midget League football career!

I got my ass kicked all over the field one night and Timex watches were popular with their tagline. It stuck.