Super Confused

[Red__Herring]

Do you want to be Dominant and experience pain?

Do you want to be submissive and experience it?

Or does it matter what role you're taking -- do you just want to experience it?

Yes, it matters, both are different kind of fun. One has the anticipation aspect to it other has the control aspect.

You made the comment that being a masochist makes you feel vulnerable. Why is that? Versus feeling vulnerable as a submissive.

That was when I read the SM101 book, I felt a need to question why I liked pain. I usually never question why I or anyone likes what they like. Then I followed the masochism link ToPleaseHim gave. It had touching stories, funny conversations, people trying to discover themselves. Now I don't remember why I was uneasy.

For feeling vulnerable as a submissive, I did feel that. It was super scary to trust my dom in the beginning. But when I found it was scary I also found I already trusted him. This was different from masochism vulnerability, it made me question the circuits in my brain. Submitting, probably would have made me question the relationship, had I realised this vulnerability before I knew I trusted him.

One thing I had to work through was understanding the labels Dom / Top and Sub / Bottom.

I wanted to experience certain things like being flogged with a really heavy flogger and whipped with a single tail. At the time, I was single. For the record, I identify as submissive. It bugged me because I didn't want to play with anyone unless I was in a relationship. I wanted my Dominant to do these things to me.

It occurred to me I wouldn't be experiencing much of anything because I wasn't dating anyone. There were people in the kink community who were known for certain skills or who had great equipment they were willing to share. I decided to seek out those folks and see if they'd be willing to play with me.

By understanding I was a bottom in these situations rather than submissive, it made me feel comfortable experiencing new things.

Hope that makes sense.

Yes it does, please tell me more about being a bottom.

 

[Red__Herring]

Hello, Red__Herring.

As usual, some pretty bright people have already commented. And their answers to your conundrum are, I think, pretty well done.

And I am very thankful to them.

So, I'll just offer a little bit of a different perspective to ponder on at your leisure.

Back in my mad-capped, often ill-thought, checkered past I was... eh... often confused with a fighter rather than a lover. Football (the Americanized version, but back in the day when we actually hit people). Kickboxing (pre-MMA or my record probably would have been better since my weight class had legs half again as long). Back alley street fights (strictly speaking illegal). As well as some other hobbies that qualified as "eXtreme."

The torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders, cracked scapula, four broken ribs, and compound fracture of the tibia and fibula weren't a whole lot of fun. Healing afterward, at least. Well, the stitches weren't a great deal of fun either now I think about it. The knife slashes weren't half so noticeable as that damn ten gauge needle. The rest I either shrugged off and ignored.

Or, actively enjoyed.

More often, I was the hammer to their nail. But, even the shots I took were... exciting. Thrilling. A wake-up jolt better than a caffeine overdose.

The best game of my career, I took a helmet to the thigh early on that bruised the bone. I was limping around between plays, all but struggling to stand on it, and probably should have been pulled. Except during the plays... I couldn't be stopped.

I've had what happens to me described as "Alpha Black." I don't really understand exactly what that means in physiological or neurological terms. It has something to do with the combination of brain waves and electrochem responses that were outside my interests. I taste something like blood and it's like everything slows down. Each moment is stretched out almost to its breaking point.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say I stop thinking. Although, maybe it is since in that... mode, I tend to be tactically reactive rather more than strategically proactive. And intensely, intensely focused. Not internally, but externally.

However...

However, I'm extremely domination oriented without a submissive bone in my body. Holding still and accepting pain meted without dishing back... just ain't gonna happen. Trying to restrain me is a good way to get a room redecorated in a nuevo post-apocalyptic as we found out when I completely dismantled a cast iron bed frame I was tied to early on. And again when in a restraint training session I almost seriously injured a pair of former NFL players turned detention officers attempting to practice on me.

But, in the heat of the moment, now... that's a very different story.

There was a time when I bore claw marks on my ass and back and teeth marks on my shoulders as badges of honor. (As well as some interesting bruises in odd places.) Hell, there was a time when that was my benchmark if the sex was any good!

There is a thing called Primal. I don't really care for the designation Predator as that denotes an intent to bring harm that just isn't me. And I really disagree with the counter-designation "prey" since you don't mate with prey, you devour it. But, there is a certain aspect of the battle for supremacy between Alpha and Alpha that held... a certain something. Of having to earn the submission, proving that I was worthy of it, maybe. A... mock battle between two consenting people to get the blood pumping. Not exactly consensual non-consent since consent is open established, just with a... tussle for foreplay.

Wow.

I don't understand. Yet I think I understand. Do you mean that it wouldn't have had been fun if submission was simply served and not fought for?

I used to push for sanity, but then I figured out we're all ape-shit crazy in our own way, so what was the point in pushing for something that doesn't exist outside of some wackadoo's frame of reference?

Don't say that, it's incredibly fun to push limits. Though it's not fun when there is a mismatch of interests.

Any road, don't overthink it and try to bend yourself into pretzels trying to fit a definition someone else gave you. Once you figure out what you need to be happy, and find someone who needs the same, then go for it. And fuck any judgemental pricks that weren't invited to play anyway.

May the sun be out of your eyes and the wind at your back for a brighter tomorrow than yesterday.

Hahaha, yes I will, thank you so much.

 

[Red__Herring]

Thank you all

I am deeply thankful to everyone. I realised I was asking the wrong questions in the beginning. Now I have some answers to the questions I did not know I had. And a better understanding of a subset of stuff. I am very glad I gathered the courage to ask.

Thank you again.

 

[Red__Herring]

I'm confused as well. My Dom said from beginning he wasn't into pain. Yet he fantasizes about biting the hell out of my breasts. I reminded him about his previous statements. I'm into zero pain. His response was sometimes he loses it. I think he just can't say he's into giving pain.

Give him a gag to bite (trying to be funny). Is this making you question the whole dynamics?

 

[seela]

Have you noticed this sticky? It might be helpful.

Stella's post on labels, D/s, top/bottom.

 

[Red__Herring]

Have you noticed this sticky? It might be helpful.

Stella's post on labels, D/s, top/bottom.

Yes, one of the firsts I read. Apparently, I did not understand it's relevance at that time. Reread again, thank you.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Hello

I am very new, and have learnt a lot from this forum. It's been super exciting and amazing. I learnt of so many labels which answered so many questions. And also left me with new questions.

I am conflicted about being a masochist and a dominant. As a sub I get away for a while, by being bratty and playful. As a domme I accomodate for the person I am with, which means no pain for me (only online experiences so far, so don't know if I enjoy inflicting pain, though I think I would).

Started reading SM 101 A realistic introduction, for answers, now I am a bit vulnerable about being a masochist. And still super confused.

Has anyone faced similar confusions? Any advice, suggestion or experience would help. If there is a similar thread already and I missed it, would be grateful if someone points me towards it.

Thank you.

Im sorry, I have been away for a while and I seem to have missed the pary, I do have one question for you. Have you ever considered the possibility that you may be a switch? I have NOT met many Dominant persons who also enjoyed having pain inflicted upon them. I, personally, do not.

I can understand your confusion. Keep in mind that while lables help us to figure each other and our needs, it doesnt mean you have to be a slave to labels. You are a unique individual.

My suggestion. Figure out your Needs, desires, Wants. if you need to... to hell with labels.

MD

 

[Jada59]

I'm more conflicted than confused. And more vanilla than anything I suppose but also a switch.

I like to watch CBT videos, but when my BF asked me to bite his cock recently, I balked. Told him I didn't want to hurt him. I can understand him wanting pain but I didn't know much about biting cocks and certainly didn't want to damage him.

I do like rough sex though.

One thing that does confuse me is the use of Dom and Domme. I had assumed that Dom was male and Domme was female. But on FetLife they seem to be used interchangeably.

 

[Red__Herring]

I like to watch CBT videos, but when my BF asked me to bite his cock recently, I balked. Told him I didn't want to hurt him. I can understand him wanting pain but I didn't know much about biting cocks and certainly didn't want to damage him.

Hello, are you not sure about how to give him the pain he wants without damage or are you conflicted about you not wanting to do it?

One thing that does confuse me is the use of Dom and Domme. I had assumed that Dom was male and Domme was female. But on FetLife they seem to be used interchangeably.

I followed the same assumption, and so did the guys who sent me messages about wanting a domme. So you are probably right with your assumption. I am not sure what the usual convention is, maybe dom is a gender neutral term too? I don't know. I give up. I am going to be a potato from now on.

 

[Red__Herring]

Im sorry, I have been away for a while and I seem to have missed the party, I do have one question for you. Have you ever considered the possibility that you may be a switch? I have NOT met many Dominant persons who also enjoyed having pain inflicted upon them. I, personally, do not.

Welcome to the party. Yes, I have considered it, it's the most confusing question. High school all over again. So I have made peace with not knowing about being switch for now.

I have not met such a person either. Apart from me.

Consider this scenario, suppose your sub gets to tell you stuff for a day. I am guessing it's statistically more likely that your sub would be a she. I am assuming you like spanking, she tells you to tie her hands behind her, she tells you that you will get to spank her if you do good. She tells you to take her panties off from under her skirt without lifting it or touching her skin. You are filled with anticipation, she tells you to run your hand from her knee up her thigh. You do so. And you also turn her about lift her skirt and ready your hands. When she says stop with a smirk. I like this, I like teasing, and also knowing that my instructions are being followed to the dot.

I am confused because even being a switch seems to come with a dichotomy of roles. And am probably trying to understand social conventions than labels.

I can understand your confusion. Keep in mind that while lables help us to figure each other and our needs, it doesnt mean you have to be a slave to labels. You are a unique individual.

My suggestion. Figure out your Needs, desires, Wants. if you need to... to hell with labels.

MD

Thank you, and yes I have given up on labels.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Just a note on labels that may be helpful when discussing. On this forum, we have a history of using the acronym PYL/pyl to talk anything BDSM. PYL means “pick your label.” Labels mean different things to different people and there are so many, so rather than getting caught up on the label, PYL stands in for a generic dominant label and pyl for a generic submissive label.

Also, I read the exchange on Dom/Domme. I haven’t noticed “Domme” being used interchangeably, but “Dom” I have seen used interchangeably.

 

[Red__Herring]

Just a note on labels that may be helpful when discussing. On this forum, we have a history of using the acronym PYL/pyl to talk anything BDSM. PYL means “pick your label.” Labels mean different things to different people and there are so many, so rather than getting caught up on the label, PYL stands in for a generic dominant label and pyl for a generic submissive label.

Which one switches use?

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Which one switches use?

Which ever feels appropriate, or perhaps just Switch. It’s very easy to get caught up in the labels, but do remember that they are just labels and almost never firm, fixed definitions. BDSM is a continuum.

 

[Red__Herring]

Which ever feels appropriate, or perhaps just Switch. It’s very easy to get caught up in the labels, but do remember that they are just labels and almost never firm, fixed definitions. BDSM is a continuum.

Okay, thanks a bunch!

Seems like it will be fun.

 

[Justis]

I understand, thank you. As I have come to understand through the very helpful replies, I was not as much bothered by the label as I was by not understanding my interests. Or its potential mismatches with the people I have played with.

Was being a switch confusing in the beginning?

You are welcome, I was not so much trying to convey labels or a concern for them so much as when I first opened myself up to this realm and the needs I had, those labels confused me. In that my thoughts, feelings needs didn’t quite fit in with them. That was the point I was making to you. Labels help but they can confuse how we perceive how we should feel if our feelings don’t match the supposed criteria under the label. I relate to many labels but not all of the criteria under them. This confused me at the time as what I needed and craved didn’t quite fit any label. I learnt through experience what worked for me and what I needed, how I needed it and the options that left me with.

For instance being a switch I found that I could have the best of both worlds if I was with another switch. However I also found that it had to be the right switch because if the switch I was with craved my Dominant side but didn’t crave to Dominate me then not all of my needs were met and visa versa. That left me with either multiple partners which is not an option for me or holding In there untill I found someone that met both sets of needs. Then add in the fact that either as a dominant or a sub I like to both receive and give pain lol! I also needed a partner that would go head to head with me, it is thrilling to have two people that can switch, battle for dominance. As a sub the dominant has to fight for my submission in their actions and deeds. That also narrowed down the field, as far as I’m concerned my submission is earned and if it is earned it will be given without restraint otherwise it just doesn’t work for me.

So in answer to your questions yes it was confusing at the beginning because I didn’t understand myself well enough to know what I wanted and needed. I read so much on this topic and still I found that in action it didn’t quite work for me. Then I stepped back and took some time away from it. I realised that yes the research helps, talking helps a lot as people often bring a different perspective which may not give you answers but push you further along the road to understanding. So after a lot of rambling my point that I learnt the hard way is what you feel you need, firstly accept it, understand what parts you like and what you don’t and go from there. You may find as I did that along the road you figure out other aspects that you were not aware of again just embrace them even if they don’t fit in with what we preconceive should fit together.

 

[Jada59]

Hello, are you not sure about how to give him the pain he wants without damage or are you conflicted about you not wanting to do it?

I want to do what he wants, but don't want to damage him.

I followed the same assumption, and so did the guys who sent me messages about wanting a domme. So you are probably right with your assumption. I am not sure what the usual convention is, maybe dom is a gender neutral term too? I don't know. I give up. I am going to be a potato from now on.

Thanks.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Welcome to the party. Yes, I have considered it, it's the most confusing question. High school all over again. So I have made peace with not knowing about being switch for now.

I have not met such a person either. Apart from me.

Consider this scenario, suppose your sub gets to tell you stuff for a day. I am guessing it's statistically more likely that your sub would be a she. I am assuming you like spanking, she tells you to tie her hands behind her, she tells you that you will get to spank her if you do good. She tells you to take her panties off from under her skirt without lifting it or touching her skin. You are filled with anticipation, she tells you to run your hand from her knee up her thigh. You do so. And you also turn her about lift her skirt and ready your hands. When she says stop with a smirk. I like this, I like teasing, and also knowing that my instructions are being followed to the dot.

I am confused because even being a switch seems to come with a dichotomy of roles. And am probably trying to understand social conventions than labels.



Thank you, and yes I have given up on labels.

Before I post my reply. I must make a statement that I am not judging anyone. Im merely comenting based on my personality and experience.

Yes. I am a straight male that Dominates willing female submissives only. I have for over 22 years... I seriously doubt it will change. I have owned a couple couples over the last two decades. Just dint have near as much fun with the husband than the wife.

So... that sort of thing wouldnt work for me. It works for you and those you play with so have fun. For ME that sort of situation wouldnt work for a number of situations.

1) I would never negotiate for a scene with those rules/limits. While the actions and the choice of clothing and acts IS comepletely within my wheel house. How your example went.. would never fly with me.

2) I am a Master and a Dominant. Im normally in complete control over myself and the lady in question by mutual agreement. Now... if something goes south and she says no... well then I of course stop. But I personally dont know a Dom / Master/ Domme / Mistress who would be ok with that set up. From MY experience... its close to how a Domme would tease and finally let her male sub fuck her if he did EVERYTHING right during four play.

3) I tried something slightly like that... Once, while I was a young, inexperienced Dominant. I had a sub/gf we really enjoyed playing and sex. ONCE we agreed to let her Tie ME up for a change. Boy did that blow up in our faces. It felt like every cell in my body just exploded and HAD to be released IMMEDIATELY. She let me up... but we realized that I could never let myself to be topped. It just isnt in my Psych make up.

If I had started a scene with someone like you describes. I would have said no thank you and walked away. It Wouldnt be doing anything for me, I wouldnt be aroused... no mater how sexy you may be or be dressed. For me... being stripped of any control, choices... wouldnt be any fun at all... and would strip any sexual energy from the scene for me. In addition. As, I have had more than one sub at a time in the past... if one of my subs had seen me act out that sort of scene... she would have been horribly shocked and disapointed in me as her Master. My girls expect me to be in control...

I hope my response makes sense and in not at all disrespectful. Im just glad we never tried to play... neither would have come away fulfilled.

 

[Red__Herring]

You are welcome, I was not so much trying to convey labels or a concern for them so much as when I first opened myself up to this realm and the needs I had, those labels confused me. In that my thoughts, feelings needs didn’t quite fit in with them. That was the point I was making to you. Labels help but they can confuse how we perceive how we should feel if our feelings don’t match the supposed criteria under the label. I relate to many labels but not all of the criteria under them. This confused me at the time as what I needed and craved didn’t quite fit any label. I learnt through experience what worked for me and what I needed, how I needed it and the options that left me with.

For instance being a switch I found that I could have the best of both worlds if I was with another switch. However I also found that it had to be the right switch because if the switch I was with craved my Dominant side but didn’t crave to Dominate me then not all of my needs were met and visa versa. That left me with either multiple partners which is not an option for me or holding In there untill I found someone that met both sets of needs. Then add in the fact that either as a dominant or a sub I like to both receive and give pain lol! I also needed a partner that would go head to head with me, it is thrilling to have two people that can switch, battle for dominance. As a sub the dominant has to fight for my submission in their actions and deeds. That also narrowed down the field, as far as I’m concerned my submission is earned and if it is earned it will be given without restraint otherwise it just doesn’t work for me.

So in answer to your questions yes it was confusing at the beginning because I didn’t understand myself well enough to know what I wanted and needed. I read so much on this topic and still I found that in action it didn’t quite work for me. Then I stepped back and took some time away from it. I realised that yes the research helps, talking helps a lot as people often bring a different perspective which may not give you answers but push you further along the road to understanding. So after a lot of rambling my point that I learnt the hard way is what you feel you need, firstly accept it, understand what parts you like and what you don’t and go from there. You may find as I did that along the road you figure out other aspects that you were not aware of again just embrace them even if they don’t fit in with what we preconceive should fit together.

I understand. For the first time I do understand. And probably now I understand what Acktion was suggesting. So deep.

So for now I proactively wait for life to teach me?

 

[Red__Herring]

I want to do what he wants, but don't want to damage him.

Worrying is part of the fun. I am sure there is a way to do that. I don't know how. Maybe ask him how to or someone here? Or the good old fashioned way, porn?

 

[Red__Herring]

Before I post my reply. I must make a statement that I am not judging anyone. Im merely comenting based on my personality and experience.

Yes. I am a straight male that Dominates willing female submissives only. I have for over 22 years... I seriously doubt it will change. I have owned a couple couples over the last two decades. Just dint have near as much fun with the husband than the wife.

So... that sort of thing wouldnt work for me. It works for you and those you play with so have fun. For ME that sort of situation wouldnt work for a number of situations.

1) I would never negotiate for a scene with those rules/limits. While the actions and the choice of clothing and acts IS comepletely within my wheel house. How your example went.. would never fly with me.

2) I am a Master and a Dominant. Im normally in complete control over myself and the lady in question by mutual agreement. Now... if something goes south and she says no... well then I of course stop. But I personally dont know a Dom / Master/ Domme / Mistress who would be ok with that set up. From MY experience... its close to how a Domme would tease and finally let her male sub fuck her if he did EVERYTHING right during four play.

3) I tried something slightly like that... Once, while I was a young, inexperienced Dominant. I had a sub/gf we really enjoyed playing and sex. ONCE we agreed to let her Tie ME up for a change. Boy did that blow up in our faces. It felt like every cell in my body just exploded and HAD to be released IMMEDIATELY. She let me up... but we realized that I could never let myself to be topped. It just isnt in my Psych make up.

If I had started a scene with someone like you describes. I would have said no thank you and walked away. It Wouldnt be doing anything for me, I wouldnt be aroused... no mater how sexy you may be or be dressed. For me... being stripped of any control, choices... wouldnt be any fun at all... and would strip any sexual energy from the scene for me. In addition. As, I have had more than one sub at a time in the past... if one of my subs had seen me act out that sort of scene... she would have been horribly shocked and disapointed in me as her Master. My girls expect me to be in control...

I hope my response makes sense and in not at all disrespectful. Im just glad we never tried to play... neither would have come away fulfilled.

Yes, it makes sense and of course its not disrespectful. Discussing ideas cannot be. And I agree, neither of us would have had been fulfilled, lol. Why is that a concern here though?

Thank you, I got a different perspective along the way. Learnt something new.

 

[Justis]

I understand. For the first time I do understand. And probably now I understand what Acktion was suggesting. So deep.

So for now I proactively wait for life to teach me?

I would ask you, what feels right and true to you to do for now?

For instance, would multiple partners work for you? If so you could think of, as others have suggested having a Dominant and submissive. Understand what your needs are accept them, understand what your wants are and accept them. Understand your hard limits, soft limits in both. In other words what you are willing to have done to you and also what you will do to someone else. There are things I know I don’t want doing to me as a sub, however as a dominant I would do some of those things to a sub. There are some things that I am dubious about but open too. What I found was that it was very much dependant on the individual sub or Dom as to where my lines were. In that I mean something that was a hard limit with one Dom became something I wanted with another Dom. That could be to do with the connection and trust or because I had grown. One thing I would say is don’t let anyone tell you how you should feel or what you should need. Your feelings and needs are real and valid even if they do not make sense to other people. Avoid those that avoid your feelings and needs and only focus on their own. That doesn’t mean don’t communicate and talk through to help the person understand, it means don’t put up with them being ignored or not giving you the recognition and/or actions you require on your feelings and needs.
Ask questions, the same question to multiple people and you will see a lot of the answers will be slightly different. Start to think what is your ideal, what do you want and need out of this? Do you want just experience or a long term dynamic? With one or multiple partners? Be selective in your choice of partner/s either sub or dominant.
Don’t be afraid to try something that intrigues you with someone you trust, if you like it great if not that’s great too, you learnt something about yourself.

 

[Red__Herring]

I would ask you, what feels right and true to you to do for now?

For instance, would multiple partners work for you? If so you could think of, as others have suggested having a Dominant and submissive. Understand what your needs are accept them, understand what your wants are and accept them. Understand your hard limits, soft limits in both. In other words what you are willing to have done to you and also what you will do to someone else. There are things I know I don’t want doing to me as a sub, however as a dominant I would do some of those things to a sub. There are some things that I am dubious about but open too. What I found was that it was very much dependant on the individual sub or Dom as to where my lines were. In that I mean something that was a hard limit with one Dom became something I wanted with another Dom. That could be to do with the connection and trust or because I had grown. One thing I would say is don’t let anyone tell you how you should feel or what you should need. Your feelings and needs are real and valid even if they do not make sense to other people. Avoid those that avoid your feelings and needs and only focus on their own. That doesn’t mean don’t communicate and talk through to help the person understand, it means don’t put up with them being ignored or not giving you the recognition and/or actions you require on your feelings and needs.
Ask questions, the same question to multiple people and you will see a lot of the answers will be slightly different. Start to think what is your ideal, what do you want and need out of this? Do you want just experience or a long term dynamic? With one or multiple partners? Be selective in your choice of partner/s either sub or dominant.
Don’t be afraid to try something that intrigues you with someone you trust, if you like it great if not that’s great too, you learnt something about yourself.

Multiple people are somewhat fun, but it's not satisfying. Probably it's just the novelty which comes with new people.

I mainly feel like poking my dom, and not for punishment (not that I mind if I get some). It's just more fun. I sort of feel like I have to get even with him, because I feel safe with him. (Now though he won't even get annoyed, so that's annoying, but it's also fun to think of new ways). I love letting go of everything with him, but I also need to not let go. Or make him let go. Sort of.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Yes, it makes sense and of course its not disrespectful. Discussing ideas cannot be. And I agree, neither of us would have had been fulfilled, lol. Why is that a concern here though?

Thank you, I got a different perspective along the way. Learnt something new.

My pleasure. The only reason it is a concern here... or anywhere is that MY core belief about BDSM is that all parties should be getting their needs met.. or someone is being abused in some fashion. Its my acid test when considering any such activity.

 

[Red__Herring]

My pleasure. The only reason it is a concern here... or anywhere is that MY core belief about BDSM is that all parties should be getting their needs met.. or someone is being abused in some fashion. Its my acid test when considering any such activity.

You mentioned couples, I am curious, is there bondage for couples?

 

[Justplatonic]

There is no right or wrong here. I call myself a sub, despite having a few dominant traits. But I would never dominate a woman. I know this because of my experiences, and the life I've lived.

Its great you're asking questions, and reaching out, experimenting. If you're not sure now, you will be in time. Have a blast, but most importantly please keep safe.