Litiquette VII

[Trekka]

I think I could do it and I think the experience would be novel - and novelty is the best aphrodisiac - so it’s likely they’d get Xmas tree brain scans from me.

Which, are those the same as hum-drum Os?
Enny says yes.
I’m not so sure.

Talk about an observer’s paradox!

So, more on this... the research was fascinating to me!

This doctor found through her work that the brain’s pleasure system isn’t just touching private parts and cumming. It’s the whole enchilada: it’s social interaction, and nature, pets, watching a fire, exercise, sumptuous feeling fabrics, sunshine. Sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feels.

Basically, dopamine.

All of which lead, in a general way, toward an orgasm.

She feels like our dopamine circuits are increasingly high jacked these days by spreading our attention too thin, and across interactions that don’t ultimately nurture our pleasure centers. Social media comes to mind. “Likes” give us a hit of dopamine but it’s not the kinda hit that turns a pleasure path in the brain into a well worn trail that leading in the general direction of orgasm.

So what’s my question?
Basically- whaddya think??
Seeing a beautiful sunrise: a stop on the train to O-town?
Relishing all the retweets: derailing the train to Pleasureville?

 

[QuietCanadian]

This doctor found through her work that the brain’s pleasure system isn’t just touching private parts and cumming. It’s the whole enchilada: it’s social interaction, and nature, pets, watching a fire, exercise, sumptuous feeling fabrics, sunshine. Sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feels.

Basically, dopamine.

All of which lead, in a general way, toward an orgasm.

She feels like our dopamine circuits are increasingly high jacked these days by spreading our attention too thin, and across interactions that don’t ultimately nurture our pleasure centers. Social media comes to mind. “Likes” give us a hit of dopamine but it’s not the kinda hit that turns a pleasure path in the brain into a well worn trail that leading in the general direction of orgasm.

This makes a whole lot of sense to me and is rather interesting. I think this can translate to a lot of different things, but this one is the most fun. You dull anything, or spread it too thin as it were, it's going to dull the fun stuff too. Did you mention the podcast?

Now, how do I like this post?

 

[hotwords229_A]

I think it’s true. We are way too overstimulated these days. I bet a lot of people here “can’t fall asleep without the tv on” and yet, it’s the tv being on that’s ruining your sleep. Sometimes irony can be pretty ironic.

I’ve often wondered about deprivation chambers and what effect they would have on me. Now I’m wondering how great would an orgasm be after being in a deprivation chamber? Would we achieve such a sense of calm and relaxation that the big O would be a million times more amazing? I don’t know, but I’m thinking maybe.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

1. I'm totally down for participating in kinky research. I've done some weird things already in the name of science. Best one was having RFID chips attached to my nipples to measure bounce in every day exercise activities. I was part of the smaller breasted "control" group

2. I completely agree that social media and the artificial dopamine hits are ruining our ability to stay in the moment and experience true pleasure. It's not just sexual, either. How many of those influencers actually sit and take in the beauty of the shots they post to instagram? Feel that rush of gratitude that comes with being surrounding by breathtaking beauty? I'd bet not many.

I've tried the depravation chambers. They're full of epsom salt and I accidentally got it in my eyes. I found I couldn't relax after that but I really want to try it again and this time don't touch my fucking eyes at all. Unlike hotwords the hornbag, I'm not really curious about orgasming afterwards, but science.... Perhaps I'll have to give it a few goes.

 

[Endless_Night]

This doctor found through her work that the brain’s pleasure system isn’t just touching private parts and cumming. It’s the whole enchilada: it’s social interaction, and nature, pets, watching a fire, exercise, sumptuous feeling fabrics, sunshine. Sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feels.

I buy this completely. It explains certain types of kink-based sexuality. Some people just need physical attraction to *make it* with a partner. Some need an emotional connection. Others need combinations of the two and more.

I need my kink, but not just my kink. There needs enough of a sexual attraction or mental/emotional connection AND the likely promise of compatible kink to even get me to the table.

And that's what's on a conscious level. It doesn't even touch on those cumulative *enchilada* pieces.

 

[Endless_Night]

< She feels like our dopamine circuits are increasingly high jacked these days by spreading our attention too thin, and across interactions that don’t ultimately nurture our pleasure centers. Social media comes to mind. “Likes” give us a hit of dopamine but it’s not the kinda hit that turns a pleasure path in the brain into a well worn trail that leading in the general direction of orgasm. >

I wonder about this a little. A big yes to overstimulation and social media, but what about exercise? There's a big ole neurotransmitter hit. Yet my libido climbs when exposed to regular cardio and regular challenges to muscle mass.

Is that supposed to be a different hit than something like social media? An instance of short but concentrated as opposed to scattered and spread across the day?

I really am going to have to listen to this podcast.



Should we all do pod reports and turn them in to Trekka?

 

[Trekka]

^^thats a good point about exercise, Enny.

But, humans were built to exercise? We weren’t built to stay still and swipe and click.
So maybe there is a difference there?

It’s a good point tho...

And the doctor was Dr. Nan Wise and she was being interviewed on Tristan Taormino’s “Sex Out Loud” podcast.

 

[Endless_Night]

^^Perhaps it's something along the lines of an adrenaline hit? Great, when you need it, but pushing the button over and over just leaves one burnt out and exhausted.

(And, yes, that is greatly simplifying adrenaline for all your silent yet critical readers. )


*sharpens pencil in readiness for my report*

 

[Trekka]

^you gotta listen!! Its such a good interview and maybe it’s just me but I thought it was SO FASCINATING.

And there’s more
That I’m gonna blather about
Tomorrow


But until then...

I can think of a lot of women I know who are just pretty lukewarm when it comes to sex - and I’m all “how?!?” And they also seem all “meh” about sunsets and tropical fish and a well cooked meal and the feeing of sand between the toes and a sumptuous sheet set... like everything is *shrug*

But holy fuck can they post and repost and like and dislike content on social media.
And it’s not just social media- I see it when they live to watch their kids achieve, too. Seems that shuffling the younguns from activity to activity hits their pleasure button?

Even when I get my nails done- which for me is like going to church - they’re in the salon on their phones and just *not paying attention!* and I’m “How the hell can you not be paying attention to this amazing foot rub? And PARAFFIN WAX?!”

It would seem their pleasure pathways are dimmed. And not by nature but nurture. They haven’t been nourished.

^and then I meet their husbands here. *blinks*

I’m not sure if there’s a male equivalent to this phenomenon. I’m guessing there is. But I’m having a hard time picturing it right now.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

^you gotta listen!! Its such a good interview and maybe it’s just me but I thought it was SO FASCINATING.

And there’s more
That I’m gonna blather about
Tomorrow


But until then...

I can think of a lot of women I know who are just pretty lukewarm when it comes to sex - and I’m all “how?!?” And they also seem all “meh” about sunsets and tropical fish and a well cooked meal and the feeing of sand between the toes and a sumptuous sheet set... like everything is *shrug*

But holy fuck can they post and repost and like and dislike content on social media.
And it’s not just social media- I see it when they live to watch their kids achieve, too. Seems that shuffling the younguns from activity to activity hits their pleasure button?

Even when I get my nails done- which for me is like going to church - they’re in the salon on their phones and just *not paying attention!* and I’m “How the hell can you not be paying attention to this amazing foot rub? And PARAFFIN WAX?!”

It would seem their pleasure pathways are dimmed. And not by nature but nurture. They haven’t been nourished.

^and then I meet their husbands here. *blinks*

I’m not sure if there’s a male equivalent to this phenomenon. I’m guessing there is. But I’m having a hard time picturing it right now.

I think there's some deep sociology at play here.

Men have always had permission to pursue their passions. That hasn't always been afforded to women and as a result, many women never realize they're entitled to their own lives.

I'm definitely more on the "meh" side of the spectrum, but I do listen to my curiosity with a deep reverence. As a kid I met the most interesting man in a nursing home who had the best stories in the world. I decided then and there that I too was going to collect epic stories to tell. I had to learn that the way to be a collector of awesome things you have to:
1. Do shit
2. Pay attention

The world is actually full of pleasure every day. It's just a matter of choosing to be present (which is easier said than done).

Trekka- have you seen the movie "About Time"? It really hits this theme and I love it. It's one of my absolute favorites and I could never articulate why until your post

 

[Endless_Night]

< I’m not sure if there’s a male equivalent to this phenomenon. I’m guessing there is. But I’m having a hard time picturing it right now.

Perhaps the beer swilling, endless sports watching, couch potato would be the equivalent?

It's interesting to me the difference in our sexual experience. For me, when it's right? It is epic. EPIC. As in, that's all I want to do, all I can think about. Ever.

But if the sex isn't right? eh. I will just as soon live without. Not necessarily happily, mind, but I will. There is just no pizazz. No excitement.

Interesting, too, on the sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and feels. Senses. I see all that as being external, with a high potential for sensual input. I enjoy all those things mentioned. Sand between the toes, freshly laundered sheets, sunsets, and decadent meal. But they're all…idk, external?

My greatest pleasures are more internal. Appreciation for particularly evocative writing, a beautifully put together passage of words, or uniquely structured piece of prose. Interlocking details when I plot out some project and problem solving unexpected snags.

I wonder how that type of thing plays into what we're talking about as far pleasure pathways and interactions? If someone leans more internally is their innate plasticity of the orgasm trail likely to be less than that of someone who leans external?

Idk. Curious stuff.

 

[Trekka]

Aussie- haven’t seen it. Adds it to my list.
Enny- marry me. Or just listen to the podcast! Ha ha

So in light of some of those^^ comments up there.....

The doctor found that many women have these neural pathways to orgasm that are more like overgrown dirt paths- versus super highways- due to lack of use.

And based on neuroplasticity, she theorizes you could rebuild the superhighway. But ya gotta use it. And not necessarily by starting with a hand down your pants. Maybe use it by enjoying some chocolate. Really fucking slowly. Sensually. Presently.

Anyhoo.

Not surprisingly? But surprisingly to me.... women had this going on more so than men and she thinks it’s because as younguns boys are much more encouraged to explore *down there* (plus they can see all their parts clear as day so why not good around with them?) Whereas it’s much less socially encouraged for girls to play around down there.

As such. Ya wind up with a buncha grown ups that are all “what’s the big deal?” And certainly if they can’t pleasure themselves— it’s nearly impossible for someone else to pleasure them. Which leads to The Big Meh toward sex.

And we all know what that looks like 3 or 4 decades decades later.

But it’s fixable- that’s the good news. If you wanna fix it of course. To each their own.

My mom used to slip me Cosmo. That’s where I learned about Os. I thought she wanted me to learn more about make up. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Now as a mom of girls I am wondering....

Should we be explicitly teaching young women how to experience pleasure? As parents? Let someone else do it? What about young men?

I bet a lot of us figured a lot out on our own.
I wonder how much I should teach or guide, and how much I should let them figure out solo.
Would it make a difference?
Would they have happier lives and marriages?

Discuss.

 

[Orchidea73]

I bet a lot of us figured a lot out on our own.
I wonder how much I should teach or guide, and how much I should let them figure out solo.
Would it make a difference?

Discuss.

I figured out everything on my own (friends and experience) and I prefer it that way. My mom tried a couple of times when I was a teenager, and later, to talk about sex and boys, using the excuse: "We are friends as well. You can talk to me about these things." Yeah, no mom. I know your game. lol

I have brought home to meet my family two boyfriends, only. And the first time that happened I was like 30-31 yrs old. However, I've had friends that talked about everything with their moms, and my sister too. I don't think there is a right or wrong in this case. Some like/need to talk about sex and love lifer with their mom and some don't. It's fine either way.

 

[Endless_Night]

Oh, man. I think my dirt path is going to need a machete.

The one and only sex talk I received came about nine. Early, yes. My mother worked and I had to walk the equivalent of twelve blocks alone across a wooded park. My grandparents were worried about something happening to me, so I got *the talk*. It was all clinical and confusing, and I distinctly remember thinking:



IS SHE KIDDING?

Looking back, I think it might’ve left me a little traumatized.

I’m not sure what you mean by explicitly teaching, but if it means discussion, then freaking absolutely! Once my sexual desires became active I felt…hmm, maybe a little isolated? There was no sex talk in my house. My girlfriends didn’t talk. I wasn’t entirely sure how things were supposed to work, but I was pretty darn certain the things I was fantasizing about were not the norm. So I tried to suppress them. And felt more isolated.

Not exactly a bloom fest for a healthy sex life.

 

[Endless_Night]

Oh, yeah. and nowhere in the *talk* or at any point after was there any mention of orgasm. That was a BIG surprise when it first happened.

I think knowledge, the opportunity to discuss and ask questions in an open environment, would go a long way towards leveling the playing field as far as those sociological inequities Aussie is talking about. And, honestly, that starts with women. Not only how they educate their own daughters but how they treat other women.

 

[tnman03]

I bet a lot of us figured a lot out on our own.
I wonder how much I should teach or guide, and how much I should let them figure out solo.
Would it make a difference?
Would they have happier lives and marriages?

Discuss.

Oh “The talk,” nope, never happened which was surprising because my mother was an RN. Ah well, complicated household, but things worked out in the end. And keeping this with respect to the organism side of the question, well that made me laugh thinking about someone trying to explain that to a pre-teen or early teen boy.

Overall, probably like most other guys then the disinformation came from listening to discussions on sex with other guys at school who tended to be the biggest loudmouths. Purloined Playboy and Penthouse magazines were more insightful by far.

The happier lives and marriages side of the question is really a whole lot more involved with just the physical pleasure side of good sex. Even with the best of parental examples and discussions, it’s all still a bit uncertain. And since I’ve likely mangled this entire response I’ll just end this and post it.

 

[Trekka]

Oh, yeah. and nowhere in the *talk* or at any point after was there any mention of orgasm. That was a BIG surprise when it first happened.

I think knowledge, the opportunity to discuss and ask questions in an open environment, would go a long way towards leveling the playing field as far as those sociological inequities Aussie is talking about. And, honestly, that starts with women. Not only how they educate their own daughters but how they treat other women.

Right!
Nowhere in my talk was any mention of Os.
Cosmo taught me about Os, and my mom gave me cosmo.
And I am so glad that she did!
And (relatively) early on- 13ish? 14ish?

I'm not surprised that female paths to orgasm are complicated. I've been told by past girlfriends that I need to be sure to fuck their brains not just their bodies.

Did she do any comparisons with male brains, or was it all focused on females? From an evolutionary perspective, this make sense to me. As sperm are cheap and eggs are expensive (I'm talking about the relative production of sperm vs eggs and, ultimately, the biological consequences of their production), it always made sense to me that female sexuality is more complex than male sexuality.

Yeah- it’s interesting- the comparisons show that the genital stimulation —> brain —> orgasm path is often like a well maintained superhighway for most men whereas for women, it’s a similar path, same route, but more frequently for women the path looks like a dimly lit two lane backroad.

For the women who had superhighways, the presumption is that it’s because those females have been traveling on that road, so to speak, often, and from a young age.

Which hit me like a ton of bricks and made me wonder if or how much I should talk to my girls about Os...?

I’ve heard my BF’s work crew talking in earshot of his boy and the menfolk make no bones about all the glorious things their wangs can do

I don’t hear such enthusiasm when a circle of women speak in earshot of a girl.

 

[Endless_Night]

^^What I hear the guys saying is that the road to Os and good sex can be complicated, and I, for one, really appreciate knowing there are people who get that.

< I’ve heard my BF’s work crew talking in earshot of his boy and the menfolk make no bones about all the glorious things their wangs can do >

Omg. *wondrous wangs*.

I am dying here.

I absolutely think girls should be exposed to O conversation! Toss in some discussion on the variety of sex, too. Normalizing that stuff is HUGE as far as self acceptance and supply of information.

Even as a young adult I found conversation among other females intimidating to enter. I am beginning to wonder how much kink factored into the negativity of that experience. It always seemed like there was a *right* way to sex, you know? Any effort to introduce less, errr, conventional thoughts was met with…a certain amount of judgement.

I am starting to feel like *road planning* and *superhighway repair* and *thoroughfare variety* should be part of the education system. Maybe elective options?

 

[tnman03]

^^What I hear the guys saying is that the road to Os and good sex can be complicated, and I, for one, really appreciate knowing there are people who get that.



Omg. *wondrous wangs*.

I am dying here.

I absolutely think girls should be exposed to O conversation! Toss in some discussion on the variety of sex, too. Normalizing that stuff is HUGE as far as self acceptance and supply of information.

Even as a young adult I found conversation among other females intimidating to enter. I am beginning to wonder how much kink factored into the negativity of that experience. It always seemed like there was a *right* way to sex, you know? Any effort to introduce less, errr, conventional thoughts was met with…a certain amount of judgement.

I am starting to feel like *road planning* and *superhighway repair* and *thoroughfare variety* should be part of the education system. Maybe elective options?

Sounds to me as though an adult better sex and O's educational set of courses might be in order. It sure wouldn't likely to be wanting for in-class involvement. I can see it now. You there, sitting on the back row and trying not to giggle. Ms. Enny, front and center and bring that other girl Trekka up here with you. Both of you can be our class demonstration team.

 

[Endless_Night]

^^ I see Trekka and Naughty as are far more suitable for class demonstrations. And teams.

Maybe Aussie if you catch her in juuuuuuust the right mood.


I’ll just remain sitting here quietly in the back.

With mah notebook.

 

[hotwords229_A]

I think there is a great opportunity for someone to write the definitive sex book that parents can just give to their kids that will tell them everything they need to know, the fun of it, the danger and all points in between for BOTH sexes—which conveniently could provide enough stimulation for both sexes to masturbate to. I think the book should be written in a fun, lighthearted way that is also super informative and takes the fear, concern and shame out of playing with yourself and others. Obviously there would have to be illustrations instead of actual pictures—even they could be funny.

I even have a title for the book, “So You’ve Ruined Your Sheets: Welcome Aboard the O-Train to Gooville”

This idea could enhance so many lives and make someone a fortune.

 

[Endless_Night]

Listened.

I’m not sure she made her point (or if she did, I missed it) on social media flattening out our seeking systems. Differing routes to pleasure was touched on, which answered my external vs internal question, and she touched on asexuality.

The premise was more pleasure than sex. Sex is just a pathway. Interesting.

I’m now curious about effective balance therapies and rewiring autonomic response. It rather ties in with the Wim Hof method and stress response.

“Neurons that are wired together fire together.”

Cracks me up for some reason.


*waits for next question*

 

[Endless_Night]

I think there is a great opportunity for someone to write the definitive sex book that parents can just give to their kids that will tell them everything they need to know, the fun of it, the danger and all points in between for BOTH sexes—which conveniently could provide enough stimulation for both sexes to masturbate to. >

Hotwords, this is genius! All the way through including all genders and cartoon illustrations. It sounds like Trekka and Sexy Britches need that pretty quick, so you'd better hop to!

Kinda serious here. I think you'd make a good job of it.

Or they were just genetically gifted from the start.

I can't tell you how many people -- women and men -- here on Lit lament that they've tried everything --romantic dinners, time away, toys, porn, furry suits -- but their S/O just isn't interested in sex. I know this is the Internet, and you can't believe everyone, but that number has to be > 0. Are those pathways to sex really malleable? Can anyone really build a superhighway to O town in their head, or are we setting up people for unrealistic expectations, failure, and more misery?

This is actually addressed. Among other things, she categorizes six different sexual personalities and touches on how those are affected by things like the changes in desire once new relationship excitement dies off.

Interesting, and presumably something of a tool to circumvent and level libido inequities.

 

[Trekka]

https://askdoctornan.com/lover-compatibility/
This is actually addressed. Among other things, she categorizes six different sexual personalities and touches on how those are affected by things like the changes in desire once new relationship excitement dies off.

Interesting, and presumably something of a tool to circumvent and level libido inequities.

I thought I was cool when she talked about sexual personality types...
There’s seven!

The Anxious Lover
The Low Sex Driver
The Explorer
The Rough and Tumbler
The Soulful Lover
The Needy Lover
The Giver

*and* some are more compatible with each other than others
*and* there’s a quiz on her website!
Which I’m sure is collecting all out data. So don’t take it if you don’t wanna....

Which are you?
Or, if you’re an anti quiz taker, which do you think you are?

I’ve got the descriptions of all of them

^ or we could take turns guessing who’s who

 

[Trekka]

I thought I was cool when she talked about sexual personality types...
There’s seven!

The Anxious Lover
The Low Sex Driver
The Explorer
The Rough and Tumbler
The Soulful Lover
The Needy Lover
The Giver

*and* some are more compatible with each other than others
*and* there’s a quiz on her website!
Which I’m sure is collecting all out data. So don’t take it if you don’t wanna....

Which are you?
Or, if you’re an anti quiz taker, which do you think you are?

I’ve got the descriptions of all of them

^ or we could take turns guessing who’s who

*whispers*
Guess who’s an Explorer?