75 years since Hiroshima.

[IceDemon]

Before the White/American/western guilt and self flagellation begins and we all are encouraged to get on one knee and kiss Japanese ass, just remember, always remember, Japan allied itself with the Nazi's against the Allies and was guilty of some terrible war crimes. This will likely be lost in the debate.

 

[SpeareChucker]

What about Fascism?

What?



Italy gets no mention?



What happened to inclusion?

 

[jaF0]

The Don wants a redo in Portland. And maybe Chicago too.

 

[dolf]

At any time, but especially in a time before internet, in a place without free press, anyone who blames the Japanese civilian victims for the actions of their unelected government is a collosal cunt. I don't have white guilt, but I do have sympathy for the lives lost on both sides (with the exception of those who orchestrated committed atrocities).

Whether it was justified or not, whether it saved lives in the long run or not, Hiroshima was a tragic and terrible event.

 

[surdeep]

At any time, but especially in a time before internet, in a place without free press, anyone who blames the Japanese civilian victims for the actions of their unelected government is a collosal cunt. I don't have white guilt, but I do have sympathy for the lives lost on both sides (with the exception of those who orchestrated committed atrocities).

Whether it was justified or not, whether it saved lives in the long run or not, Hiroshima was a tragic and terrible event.

Is this what they call “virtue signalling”?

 

[SpeareChucker]

The Don wants a redo in Portland. And maybe Chicago too.

This is a sick obsession that you have.
You should put down the booze,
put down the internet and
slowly back away...

 

[dolf]

Is this what they call “virtue signalling”?

That's the nifty new catchphrase to fling at anyone who contradicts someone on moral grounds.

However, I believe the more appropriate use of the phrase would be, for example, a business using equality in its advertising campaign in order to sell product, whilst still implementing the pink tax and failing to address cases of discrimination within their own company.

 

[IceDemon]

At any time, but especially in a time before internet, in a place without free press, anyone who blames the Japanese civilian victims for the actions of their unelected government is a collosal cunt. I don't have white guilt, but I do have sympathy for the lives lost on both sides (with the exception of those who orchestrated committed atrocities).

Whether it was justified or not, whether it saved lives in the long run or not, Hiroshima was a tragic and terrible event.

I'm hearing you, but you can bet that the American people of today will be made to feel collectively guilty for it, just like we're all guilty for slavery 200 years ago.

 

[surdeep]

That's the nifty new catchphrase to fling at anyone who contradicts someone on moral grounds.

However, I believe the more appropriate use of the phrase would be, for example, a business using equality in its advertising campaign in order to sell product, whilst still implementing the pink tax and failing to address cases of discrimination within their own company.

Pink tax?

 

[jaF0]

This is a sick obsession that you have.
You should put down the booze,
put down the internet and
slowly back away...

I don't worship at the feet of The Don as do you.

 

[hobbit.]

At any time, but especially in a time before internet, in a place without free press, anyone who blames the Japanese civilian victims for the actions of their unelected government is a collosal cunt. I don't have white guilt, but I do have sympathy for the lives lost on both sides (with the exception of those who orchestrated committed atrocities).

Whether it was justified or not, whether it saved lives in the long run or not, Hiroshima was a tragic and terrible event.

seriously? so lets just gloss over the atrocities carried out by the Japanese against anyone who they felt was inferior to them - such as women and children and anyone who happened to surrender or be otherwise taken prisoner?

As for calling people 'collosal cunts' you really do need to put a huge flag up in your window or garden boasting of just how good and virtuous you truly are. Truly a great light must shine from your arse.

Probably should have waited for Russia to join in the war against Japan, which at the time the Japanese were trying to prevent, but which Russia was signalling was going to happen - no doubt you would have found that preferable many more dead without a doubt, months more suffering.... but oh so virtuous.

Is this what they call “virtue signalling”?

Dolf the magnificent is the most virtuous person posting in Lit, she even has a body builder toyboy with a huge penis (but she did wait for her children to grow up before adding him to her portfolio of things), even seeks advice on bringing up 'naughty' children for friends via the internet. How dare you challenge Dolfs views which are freely given in the safety of 75 years distance from the events of Japanese brutality which now seems to be being treated to the same kind of middle class virtuous whitewash as the Germans couldnt stop Hitler.

virtue signalling or simply full of white middle class bullshit?

Peace and Love to all. Now fuck off and build me a railway bridge!!!

 

[hobbit.]

That's the nifty new catchphrase to fling at anyone who contradicts someone on moral grounds.

Or sometimes an accurate tag for someone wishing to appear on a higher moral plane than mere mortals.

 

[jaF0]

We must remember and never forget that the United States is the only country to ever have used Nuclear weapons against another. Not once, but twice.

As evil as it was, we can only hope no other ever will.

 

[jaF0]

...

...

Hey look, y'all, it's one o' them idjits!!!

 

[dolf]

I'm hearing you, but you can bet that the American people of today will be made to feel collectively guilty for it, just like we're all guilty for slavery 200 years ago.

I've never seen that, but I'm not American. Nobody should feel moral responsibility for the actions of a handful of politicians and military leaders.
Slavery is more complex. We're not responsible, shouldn't feel guilty.
But there's families who are still living in privilege from the fortunes their ancestors made from it... Much like the looted treasure in the British museums, it's not that I think it should automatically be stripped away, but it still feels a bit itchy under the skin.

Pink tax?

The reason I buy men's razors for my legs.
It's the mark-up placed on near identical products if they're aimed at women. Sometimes it's obvious (pink razors) but other times it's not.
For example, a painkiller advertised as being the best relief for period pain. Of you read the fine print, it might have the exact same ingredients as the one marketed for headaches, but still cost 10% more. Most people don't read the list of chemicals in tiny letters, they just buy the medication that says it is designed to treat your ailment. It's deceptive and designed to rip off women specifically.

 

[surdeep]

I've never seen that, but I'm not American. Nobody should feel moral responsibility for the actions of a handful of politicians and military leaders.
Slavery is more complex. We're not responsible, shouldn't feel guilty.
But there's families who are still living in privilege from the fortunes their ancestors made from it... Much like the looted treasure in the British museums, it's not that I think it should automatically be stripped away, but it still feels a bit itchy under the skin.

The reason I buy men's razors for my legs.
It's the mark-up placed on near identical products if they're aimed at women. Sometimes it's obvious (pink razors) but other times it's not.
For example, a painkiller advertised as being the best relief for period pain. Of you read the fine print, it might have the exact same ingredients as the one marketed for headaches, but still cost 10% more. Most people don't read the list of chemicals in tiny letters, they just buy the medication that says it is designed to treat your ailment. It's deceptive and designed to rip off women specifically.

Designed to rip women off?

You think they plan new ways to steal from women?

 

[dolf]

This isn't the right thread to have this conversation in.

Apologies the hijack.

 

[oggbashan]

Or, if you want to talk literal taxes... Why are period products charged tax, as luxury items, whilst razors are not? A beard is a choice, a period is a bodily function. So why are tampons taxed?

There is a worldwide movement to remove taxes form period products, In the UK, so far, while the government is sympathetic, they can't until they are wholly free of the EU. The EU seems afraid of a stampede of French women across the channel to buy tax-free products.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax

The United Kingdom has levied a value-added tax on sanitary products since it joined the European Economic Community in 1973. This rate was reduced to 5% specifically for sanitary products in 2000 with lobbying from Member of Parliament Dawn Primarolo saying that this reduction was "about fairness, and doing what we can to lower the cost of a necessity."[14] This is the lowest rate possible under the European Union's value added tax law, which as of 2015 does not allow zero rates.


Back on topic. The US' firebombing of Toyko caused more deaths and homelessness than Hiroshima. If the US had continued firebombing instead of using nuclear bombs - more Japanese would have died. The use of nuclear bombs convinced the Japanese military that they were facing a weapon they couldn't fight. Even though their cities were being reduced to square miles of ashes they wanted to fight on the Japanese mainland until the last Japanese. The cost in lives lost to the Allies and the Japanese would have been enormous. The nuclear weapons persuaded the military government that they could surrender with no loss of face because they were being attacked by a new weapon they couldn't resist.

PS. The Russians did declare war on Japan and invaded. They still occupy half of what had been a Japanese island.

 

[surdeep]

But the supply of British razors will be safe.

 

[SpeareChucker]

We must remember and never forget that the United States is the only country to ever have used Nuclear weapons against another. Not once, but twice.

As evil as it was, we can only hope no other ever will.

And it can be argued that because we did,
no one has ever done it since and if we had not,
we might have had a nuclear war instead of a Cold War...


PS - Just because someone disagrees with you
does not imply that they are a Trump acolyte.

See dolf's post about virtue-signaling.

 

[SpeareChucker]

...

Back on topic. The US' firebombing of Toyko caused more deaths and homelessness than Hiroshima. If the UShad continued firebombing instead of using the nuclear bombs - more Japanese would have died. The use of nuclear bombs convinced the Japanese military that they were facing a weapon they couldn't fight. Even though ther cities were being reduced to square miles of asshes they wanted to fight on the Japanese mainland until the lst Japanese. The cost in lives lost to the Allies and the Japanese would have been enormous. The nuclear weapons persuaded the miliary govenment that they could surredner with no loss of face bvecasue they were being attacked by a new wapon they couldn't rsist.

Well said.

 

[oggbashan]

Well said.

Except for the typos now edited out.

The nuclear bombs saved most of the Japanese population (and millions of Allied troops).

The decision to use them was a hard one but justified because it saved so many lives.

 

[SpeareChucker]

I also want to reiterate the point that it prevented
the use of the weapons going forward.

I'm not sure Truman even understood what they were
and what the aftereffects would be.

Another point is that it prevented the Soviets
from entering the fray and controlling
part of Japan; it could have
ended up partitioned.

Like Germany.

 

[oggbashan]

I also want to reiterate the point that it prevented
the use of the weapons going forward.

I'm not sure Truman even understood what they were
and what the aftereffects would be.

Another point is that it prevented the Soviets
from entering the fray and controlling
part of Japan; it could have
ended up partitioned.

Like Germany.

The Russians did and it is still partitioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin

 

[SpeareChucker]

Disputed and divided for a long time before the war,
but not Japan proper...