Impeachment Thread

[icanhelp1]

Ah, the old “we’ll get you next year.” The Senate election map does not look good for Dems. They need to net 3 seats and win the presidency to get the tie breaker. Doug Jones is a dead man walking.

You notice the democrat's MO. The TDS on full display. He's the epitome of the democratic party and proud of it. Just like the house, it's the " process in search of a crime". We'll get em next time"!!! is exactly what they think impeachment is all about. They have no respect of the law or due process. They are all about power and domination at all cost even if they have to go around the constitution to get what they want. Un-american and they would have you believe that voting your conscience ( Trump ) your treasonist. Do you see a pattern here?

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

You notice the democrat's MO. The TDS on full display. He's the epitome of the democratic party and proud of it. Just like the house, it's the " process in search of a crime". We'll get em next time"!!! is exactly what they think impeachment is all about. They have no respect of the law or due process. They are all about power and domination at all cost even if they have to go around the constitution to get what they want. Un-american and they would have you believe that voting your conscience ( Trump ) your treasonist. Do you see a pattern here?

Kinda feel bad for them. TDS is painful. The impeachment face plant has seriously agitated many of those who are suffering from it.

 

[KeithD]

You're both full of deflection crap, of course. Your leader is corrupt, criminal, and a traitor to his nation. But you're fine with that as long as the liberals don't like it. Ethically and morally degenerate, both of you. But we'll always have pond scum like you, so *shrug*.

 

[magicalmoments]

The interesting thing is that sooner or later there is going to be another democratic president.
The republicans by condoning trumps behaviour are opening the door for that democratic president to follow his example.
Will the republicans be apoplectic, yes. Will the rush to impeach, yes. Will the process be weighted to suit them, yes. Will the democrats react like complete arseholes as the republicans have, yes. Will all the rethuglucans on here be baying for blood, yes.
Nothing new under the sun.

 

[icanhelp1]

The interesting thing is that sooner or later there is going to be another democratic president.
The republicans by condoning trumps behaviour are opening the door for that democratic president to follow his example.
Will the republicans be apoplectic, yes. Will the rush to impeach, yes. Will the process be weighted to suit them, yes. Will the democrats react like complete arseholes as the republicans have, yes. Will all the rethuglucans on here be baying for blood, yes.
Nothing new under the sun.

I hope that’s not the case. Clinton and Nixon impeachments had statutory legitimacy, they violated specific statutes, Clinton perjured a grand jury and Nixon with the DNC break-ins and witness tampering were prosecutable crimes, I hope if a democratic president is in office that impeachment is based on a crime, a cited official statute that rises to a provable level of high crimes and misdemeanors. A violation that would have standing in a court of law. I think we need to amend the impeachment process, perhaps tying in the courts to interpret what constitutes H/C/A/M

 

[domroger]

I hope that’s not the case. Clinton and Nixon impeachments had statutory legitimacy, they violated specific statutes, Clinton perjured a grand jury and Nixon with the DNC break-ins and witness tampering were prosecutable crimes, I hope if a democratic president is in office that impeachment is based on a crime, a cited official statute that rises to a provable level of high crimes and misdemeanors. A violation that would have standing in a court of law. I think we need to amend the impeachment process, perhaps tying in the courts to interpret what constitutes H/C/A/M

Bribery is in the Constitution ,what more do you want ?

 

[BotanyBoy]

The interesting thing is that sooner or later there is going to be another democratic president.
The republicans by condoning trumps behaviour are opening the door for that democratic president to follow his example.

Too late!!!
https://i.imgflip.com/1rwlcs.jpg

It just won't be any problem for democrat partisans.

I hope that’s not the case.

I do...I hope they start impeachment DURING the inauguration of the next (D) POTUS, because fuck em' that's why.

 

[icanhelp1]

Bribery is in the Constitution ,what more do you want ?

Yeah, yeah it is. but it’s not in the articles of impeachment.

 

[magicalmoments]

I'm certainly no expert on the USA constitution but I understood that the founding fathers deliberately omitted the need for the reason for impeachment to be a statutory crime. I understood that is why they used the words "high crimes and misdemeanours", to cover behaviour/actions that while not criminal is sufficiently bad to warrant removal from office.

 

[magicalmoments]

#635 above.
And here we see his true nature. Petty, vindictive, malicious & spiteful. Certainly fits with the personality disorder I diagnosed.

 

[KeithD]

The interesting thing is that sooner or later there is going to be another democratic president.
The republicans by condoning trumps behaviour are opening the door for that democratic president to follow his example.
Will the republicans be apoplectic, yes. Will the rush to impeach, yes. Will the process be weighted to suit them, yes. Will the democrats react like complete arseholes as the republicans have, yes. Will all the rethuglucans on here be baying for blood, yes.
Nothing new under the sun.

Oh, I don't believe there will be a Democratic president who does what Trump does. I think the Republicans think there won't be, either.

 

[OrLaTime]

We'll see, won't we? In the meantime, you'll live on wishful thinking. I'll just watch what happens. Doesn't mean I won't say what I think is sensible to happen.

One thing I can say from a bit of experience, if the "Deep State" was what Trump claims it is and against him, as he claims it is, Trump would be dead now. And that's the truth.

I think this version of “deep state” is what Putin runs in Russia. It’s what Trump really wants! Big big time corruption and the power of life and death over those who oppose him.

He doesn’t want to deal with corruption? His best friends are essentially dictators raping and pillaging their countries for BILLIONS. Not the mere millions that Trump and his buddies are skimming.

How soon before he parsons all those who stood by him? After or during the Senate hearings? They will have to wait til next November. Well worth the paychecks, which Trump will end up ignoring.

 

[OrLaTime]

Too late!!!
https://i.imgflip.com/1rwlcs.jpg

It just won't be any problem for democrat partisans.



I do...I hope they start impeachment DURING the inauguration of the next (D) POTUS, because fuck em' that's why.

WTF
Obama is gone. Get over it. Clinton lost. Get over that too!
Trump? Has secret meetings with our biggest world rival with no one taking ANY notes for us.
WTF!!

But that’s ok with you
Can’t trust any of our security branches ?
Just wait til Trump gets his own police we can all trust!!

I used to wonder how countries fell into allowing dictatorships

Our founding fathers provided a means to avoid it.

The HOUSE is the PEOPLE now as of 2018! Trump did not even represent “The People” in 2016. The Supreme Court also represents the minority power now!

 

[icanhelp1]

I'm certainly no expert on the USA constitution but I understood that the founding fathers deliberately omitted the need for the reason for impeachment to be a statutory crime. I understood that is why they used the words "high crimes and misdemeanours", to cover behaviour/actions that while not criminal is sufficiently bad to warrant removal from office.

High crimes and Misdemeanor is analogous of violating a statute ( committing a crime ) It sets boundaries for causation when it comes to impeachment.

In this present impeachment debacle the charge of abuse of power sounds definitive, but, it's so ambiguous that if you don't tie it to a specific violation of a statute it becomes whatever the accuser wants it to be with no legal predicate. It would put it in the same light as " you can indict a ham sandwich".

Congress is not a court of law, understandable, impeachment is a political process, yes it is, but our forefathers greatest concern was for congress to use impeachment for settling scores, to enforce political disagreements by use of power over due process. To say impeachment is not in need of statutory relevance sets a dangerous precedent. For example, the article of "Obstruction of congress" is, in itself congressional abuse of power. It goes against the very constitutional definition of separations of powers. Congressional subpoenas issued to the executive branch are just that, a piece of paper making demands on the executive branch and can be refuted. It doesn't become an enforceable document until the credibility of the subpoena is sanctioned by the courts. At that point, failure to abide by a court authorized subpoena then becomes a statutory violation
contempt of court ) and now you have High Crimes and Misdemeanors,
( IMPEACHABLE ). People forget the House is not a prosecutorial body, it's a legislative body with oversight authority and the sole authority for impeachment. When it operates outside its purview it's abuse of power. To force impeachment using pure partisan power is such a dangerous precedence. Right now the senate is more or less protecting future presidents from this misuse of political power. I know the left doesn't see it that way because there is such a blind hatred for Trump that overtly trashing the constitution to get rid of him is justified with no thought given for future presidents. It is important to defend separation of power in order for a president to conduct his/her official duties including foreign policy without the fear of being ratted out.

For an individual to use whistleblower protection to try to change foreign policy he disagrees with could be treasonist. LTC Vindman is a disgrace to the uniform ( my opinion ). He used his official duty status ( ancillary in nature ) to subvert the office of the President of the U.S. He failed to use the proper channels and bypassed his chain of command to voice his disagreements, His chain was White House counsel, or directly to the ICIG for proper relief, instead, he exposed a confidential conversation to a political party ( aide to Adam Schiff ) ( and his twin brother ) whom did not have the proper clearance, 'for political reasons' and was made out to be a hero. He wasn't forced to obey an unlawful order, he wasn't even given an order at all. LTC Vindman was not privy to the whole scope of the conversation ( behind the scenes and intent of the president ) and took it upon himself to attempt to redirect foreign policy to his liking ( the protection of his homeland Ukraine ) He has caused so much division and damage to our country. Strictly my opinion!!

We had four constitutional scholars arguing their views as to whether Trump's conversation with Zelensky was treasonist, extortion, bribery or abuse of power to affect a 2020 election. Three out of four outwardly showed animus towards Trump and attempted to jump through hoops to prove a case of high crimes and misdemeanors which under the congressional threshold, the bar is set very low, and possibly wins the day for them. However, if those same naked allegations are tested against the metrics used in a court of law, hearsay evidence, lack of cross examination, determining intent ( "favor for US" { definition of US means } and the absence of legal representation, a judge would laugh it out of court. Impeachment should be for such egregious behavior that it would warrant partisan participation by both houses.

 

[icanhelp1]

WTF
Obama is gone. Get over it. Clinton lost. Get over that too!
Trump? Has secret meetings with our biggest world rival with no one taking ANY notes for us.
WTF!!

But that’s ok with you
Can’t trust any of our security branches ?
Just wait til Trump gets his own police we can all trust!!

I used to wonder how countries fell into allowing dictatorships

Our founding fathers provided a means to avoid it.

The HOUSE is the PEOPLE now as of 2018! Trump did not even represent “The People” in 2016. The Supreme Court also represents the minority power now!

Typical West Coast banter as California turns into a shithole.

 

[BotanyBoy]

#635 above.
And here we see his true nature. Petty, vindictive, malicious & spiteful. Certainly fits with the personality disorder I diagnosed.

Just returning the favor!

It's patriotic, a duty and honor when the (D)'s do it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

WTF
Obama is gone. Get over it.

Yes, but it doesn't make what was pointed out any less relevant to the conversation.

Keep up.....and get over it.

But that’s ok with you

100%....that's what heads of state do.

The HOUSE is the PEOPLE now as of 2018! Trump did not even represent “The People” in 2016.

The POTUS has NEVER represented "the people" .....POTUS represents the union, which is why states elect POTUS, not people.

The Supreme Court also represents the minority power now!

You mean minority voter, (R)'s control the majority of power, because they control the majority of the states.

This makes sense if you understand how our nation was structured. When you realize that we are not a unitary state but a union of states with a federal government designed to govern states not individuals, you quickly see why most of what the federal government does isn't with much concern for individuals but is instead primarily concerned with state, interstate and international level shit.

 

[JackLuis]

McConnell’s impeachment collusion admission handed the Democrats a powerful new weapon to damage the president

Mitch McConnell’s admission on Fox News that he is working behind the scenes with the White House to stack the Senate impeachment trial gives Democrats a potent weapon against the GOP, wrote Greg Sargent and Paul Waldman in the Washington Post.

“If Democrats play their procedural cards right, they can pressure Republicans to allow for a much fairer and more open trial that could actually produce new revelations — and if they refuse, extract a political price for it,” they wrote.

“By telling Sean Hannity that the process of Trump’s trial will be set up ‘in coordination with Trump’s legal team,’ McConnell told the world he wants to rig the process to produce maximal benefit for Trump,” they explained. “But McConnell might not actually be able to do this, if he doesn’t have 51 GOP votes for it — which could be the case, if vulnerable GOP senators don’t want to go along with it. And that allows Democrats to make a public case for a much fairer and more open process — and to try to force those vulnerable GOP senators to take a stand on whether they, too, want a fair and open process.”

Can Mitch stack the deck? Will the Republicans fall in line and goosestep along beside the PeeResident?

 

[JackLuis]

GOP lawmaker scrambles for excuses after being cornered with McConnell’s promise to rig Trump impeachment

On CNN Saturday, anchor Martin Savidge confronted Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA), one of Trump’s biggest defenders on cable television, about Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s claim that he was “coordinating” the impeachment strategy with the White House.

“Where is the impartiality there?” asked Savidge. “And it has to be a concern because, as you point out, you are an attorney and you would be worried if a member of the jury had already stated how they were going to consider.”
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“Yeah, we heard those comments yesterday, as everyone did,” said Johnson. “You know, I’ve actually talked about this with some of my Democrat [sic] colleagues, those who are very much in favor of impeachment. I said isn’t it a fair description of what he said? The way I heard that, Mitch McConnell is talking about the scheduling of the trial, what length of trial or what would be involved with that, with the White House, which is not unprecedented. That’s what happened in the Clinton proceedings as well, they coordinated with the White House on scheduling. I don’t think he’s talking about the merits of the case. I think he’s talking about how long will be allowed for this to go forward so I don’t think there’s anything inappropriate about that.”

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's what he meant to say.

 

[magicalmoments]

High crimes and Misdemeanor is analogous of violating a statute ( committing a crime ) It sets boundaries for causation when it comes to impeachment

Not according to the Harvard law review.

 

[icanhelp1]

Not according to the Harvard law review.

high crimes and Misdemeanor is analogous of violating a statute ( committing a crime ) It sets boundaries for causation when it comes to impeachment.

H/C&M used in any sentence other than impeachment would denote a statutory violation. Even if you read the federalist papers the definition of high crimes and misdemeanors is open to interpretation. Prof Black's book ( and staff 1974 ) was the democrat source explanation of HC/M. Today the Dems threw the book out because now they're on the other side of the fence.

There is no doubt 'High Crimes and Misdemeanors' is nebulous at best. There are as many constitutional scholars as there are opinions as to what it means.. There are many scholars who say that not to attach some kind of statutory relevancy to "Crimes and Misdemeanors" leaves any article of impeachment naked and open to any interpretation a majority party wants to attach to it, and they wouldn't be wrong. What makes it dangerous is substituting pure political majority power for due process or to weaponize the impeachment process for political gain. Removing a president is = to overturning the wishes on the electorate


There are constitutional scholars that claim ( based on fed/papers #65 ) Clinton lying to a grand jury does not rise to the level of what our forefathers intended as HC&M. As our republic matured legal scholars agreed there needed to be a way to remove a president but it had to be for either something so egregious it would be supported with bipartisan support or for the removal of a president unable to perform his duties ( sickness ). Maybe a list of federal guidelines should be developed for clarifying what constitutes an impeachable offense that also gives a president some informal guidelines without damaging separation of powers. Right now it's the equivalent of building a 747 at 30,000 ft.

This process is so damaging.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Looks like it will be a quick trial and acquittal. In football, when the outcome has been determined, the winning team lines up in the victory formation, snaps the ball, kneels, and goes home with the win. That’s what will happen in the Senate next month. #winning

 

[icanhelp1]

Looks like it will be a quick trial and acquittal. In football, when the outcome has been determined, the winning team lines up in the victory formation, snaps the ball, kneels, and goes home with the win. That’s what will happen in the Senate next month. #winning

As of this morning Comey's balls are in a judicial vise!!

 

[Spandex_Girl]

It would seem inevitable that Trump is going to be impeached and convicted. Republican attempts to halt impeachment have been childish and ineffective. Let's take a look at the Republicans childish attempts shall we?

1. Trump called Nancy Pelosi on the phone and asked if he could cut some kind of deal with her and make the impeachment inquiry go away.

2. Trump ordered all former and current government employees to ignore subpoenas issued by the House Intelligence Committee.

3. Trump very publicly complained about the New York Times and Washington Post covering the House inquiry and very loudly, angrily, melodramatically and childishly cancelled his subscriptions.

4. Trump had his lawyers claim that Trump was above the law and that Trump cannot be investigated for any crimes he commits.

5. After all of that failed, a group of Republicans (with Trump's approval) stormed into a closed door session of the House Intelligence Committee, violating national security rules and disrupting testimony of a witness.

All of these are CHILDISH STUNTS and will do NOTHING to prevent Trump from being impeached!

Although, I would like to point out that stunts like this do a lot to drive down the credibility of the Republican party.

It's sick the way Trump and his accomplices keep saying that Trump is above the law. They want Trump to be some sort of third world dictator.

 

[magicalmoments]

Congress had its chance, they fucked up, trump will be impeached and like Clinton the stain will follow him forever more, but the senate will acquit him without trial and the freak show will go on for another 5 years.
Greatest reality show ever.