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Climate continues to change.

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Let me do a google...cost of wind power electricity per kwh . Now we dont want a biased website, let us use this federal Govt one.

This includes capital and operating costs...2.1 cents per kwh in 2018. Quite a drop from 2012...of 8.2 cents.

Wonder what the cost is for coal...no...that cant be right. Ok...let us try nuclear...holy fuck. Gas, everyone loves natural gas...why are they all more expensive today? No...it isnt the subsidies, that wasnt included...see it says that there in the footnote. So...who is lying
 
gunthernehmen said:
Probably not, but regardless it can't generate enough energy to support a modern, industrial civilization. It just can't. At least not with the technology we will have for the next few hundred years.

And it will devastate the environment in the process. Where do you think those rare earths for the panels and batteries come from? Strip mines.

But the strip mines aren't in OUR backyards, so I guess that's ok by you.
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Are they strip mining sandy beaches for silicon? Seems pretty silly.
 
phrodeau said:
Are they strip mining sandy beaches for silicon? Seems pretty silly.
Click to expand...

^doesn't know what a rare earth minerals are, or how much material you have to move to find them. Probably also is not aware that there's only one rare earth mine in all of the United States..

You don't get manganese, tellurium, or even lithium from sand. Tellurium is three times rarer than gold.

Shouldn't you be reporting on random, localized high temperature weather reports from the Southern hemisphere about now?
 
Dribble said:
Let me do a google...cost of wind power electricity per kwh . Now we dont want a biased website, let us use this federal Govt one.

This includes capital and operating costs...2.1 cents per kwh in 2018. Quite a drop from 2012...of 8.2 cents.

Wonder what the cost is for coal...no...that cant be right. Ok...let us try nuclear...holy fuck. Gas, everyone loves natural gas...why are they all more expensive today? No...it isnt the subsidies, that wasnt included...see it says that there in the footnote. So...who is lying
Click to expand...

The capiral cost of solar includes at least one of the above costs as well since you have to have one of those things to back it up when the sun doesn't shine, for example at night. The only saving that solar gives you is the fuel savings for the kilowatt-hours generated when and if it is generating kilowatts.
 
Conager said:
The capiral cost of solar includes at least one of the above costs as well since you have to have one of those things to back it up when the sun doesn't shine, for example at night. The only saving that solar gives you is the fuel savings for the kilowatt-hours generated when and if it is generating kilowatts.
Click to expand...

Shall we do a quick google on whether that was included in the data? Hmmmmm...cost to customer...what does that mean?
 
Conager said:
The capiral cost of solar includes at least one of the above costs as well since you have to have one of those things to back it up when the sun doesn't shine, for example at night. The only saving that solar gives you is the fuel savings for the kilowatt-hours generated when and if it is generating kilowatts.
Click to expand...

...straight up no? That's not how it works?

I've had a solar system for about 5 or 6 years and that's... it's not like you just get power when the sun shines. The panels attach to a battery system that holds the charge to use when they're not actively generating power. It's not like if there's no sunlight there's no power; when there's no sunlight you pull from the batteries. The batteries are what's actually hooked to your "grid". I don't think you can even just hook the panels up to the house.

My system cost about $4 grand and I've put maybe... idk, not even $100 in maintenance since then. I got it before Bitesize was born so at least 6 years. So in my case it was right at, maybe a little bit over $4K for 6 years of power.

I've also got a generator, a gas generator, because I was using it before I got the solar setup, and I think I've used it twice since I got it, the first time because my brother fucking blew through the batteries running EVERY AC UNIT IN THE HOUSE FOR NO GOOD REASON freezing everybody's nuts off, and the other time was dead of winter and the batteries just drained out because it was the dead of winter and I didn't clear the snow off the panels because I just... Jesus I didn't want to. It'd been a really long day and I'd packed a shitton of coal in for my gramps and I just didn't fuckin feel like it and I was all, "It won't snow that much while I'm at work, it'll be fine," not because I genuinely thought it would but because I just... didn't fuckin want to do it. So we ran out of juice because I did that for two long. The batteries only hold like 48 hours worth and I just... y'all I was so tired and I kept saying I was gonna do it and I just didn't. It's not even hard it takes like 5 min.

I got the heater underside thing now though. Because I was that fucking lazy. I don't remember how much that was but it's not a necessity unless you're lazy as shit. People made fun of me for getting it. All the other preppers gave me shit about how lazy I was but now my ass don't have to go out in the snow so who's the real winner here?
 
CandiCame said:
...straight up no? That's not how it works?

I've had a solar system for about 5 or 6 years and that's... it's not like you just get power when the sun shines. The panels attach to a battery system that holds the charge to use when they're not actively generating power. It's not like if there's no sunlight there's no power; when there's no sunlight you pull from the batteries. The batteries are what's actually hooked to your "grid". I don't think you can even just hook the panels up to the house.

My system cost about $4 grand and I've put maybe... idk, not even $100 in maintenance since then. I got it before Bitesize was born so at least 6 years. So in my case it was right at, maybe a little bit over $4K for 6 years of power.

I've also got a generator, a gas generator, because I was using it before I got the solar setup, and I think I've used it twice since I got it, the first time because my brother fucking blew through the batteries running EVERY AC UNIT IN THE HOUSE FOR NO GOOD REASON freezing everybody's nuts off, and the other time was dead of winter and the batteries just drained out because it was the dead of winter and I didn't clear the snow off the panels because I just... Jesus I didn't want to. It'd been a really long day and I'd packed a shitton of coal in for my gramps and I just didn't fuckin feel like it and I was all, "It won't snow that much while I'm at work, it'll be fine," not because I genuinely thought it would but because I just... didn't fuckin want to do it. So we ran out of juice because I did that for two long. The batteries only hold like 48 hours worth and I just... y'all I was so tired and I kept saying I was gonna do it and I just didn't. It's not even hard it takes like 5 min.

I got the heater underside thing now though. Because I was that fucking lazy. I don't remember how much that was but it's not a necessity unless you're lazy as shit. People made fun of me for getting it. All the other preppers gave me shit about how lazy I was but now my ass don't have to go out in the snow so who's the real winner here?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the sun does a stellar job charging those batteries at night.

The fact that you are talking about a $4k grid connected, battery backed system tells me you're full of it, or at the least have no comprehension of what you actually have.
 
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gunthernehmen said:
I hope that just "sass". If that's what you actually believe... Jesus...
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https://www.cleanenergyreviews.info/blog/solar-panel-components-construction

Solar panel technology is advancing rapidly with greater efficiency and lower prices resulting in a huge increase in demand. However despite the massive advancements in technology the basic solar panel construction hasn’t changed much over the years. Most solar panels are still made up of a series of silicon crystalline cells sandwiched between a front glass plate and a rear polymer plastic back-sheet supported within an aluminium frame.
Click to expand...
 
Dribble said:
Shall we do a quick google on whether that was included in the data? Hmmmmm...cost to customer...what does that mean?
Click to expand...

SOMEBODY has to generate the off-hours electricity. If you allow solar consumers to "sell" excess capacity to the grid when the sun shines then use that credit to "buy" power from the grid when the sun is not shining, they are still using coal/gas/nuk/hydro or what have you. That has a capital cost.

As has been pointed out Germany did exactly what you would like to do. They maximize their use of solar and wind all of which had to be backed up by redundancy, so although I'm sure they burned less fossil fuels than if they didn't have that system in place their cost per kilowatt-hour is greater because you have to run parallel systems. The only savings just as I said are your savings on the actual purchase of fossil fuels. There are zero savings on capital expenditures because you still have all of the same capital expenditures that you would have if you didn't have any solar and wind *plus* the capital expenditures of solar and wind.

It's cheaper build and run a gas powered electricity plant 24 hours a day in continuous operation then it is to start and stop that for 10 to 14 hours a day and also build and run a solar plant to operate during the other hours of the day.

Let's imagine that you have a solar powered car that you use to go grocery shopping when the sun shines. Sometimes you want to go grocery shopping at night so you have a second gasoline-powered car in the garage for that purpose. It isn't possible that it's cheaper to own both cars than it is to only own the gasoline-powered car.
 
phrodeau said:
You will never accept that you have been lied to.
Click to expand...

The next time you're at the beach bring a lamp and bury the plug in the sand. I promise you, the light will not go on.

It isn't "just" the silica. But you know that, you're just playing stupid. Remarkably well, too.

Here's a link (https://www.metabolic.nl/publicatio...le-electricity-generation-in-the-netherlands/) to a study that talks about some of the OTHER requirements. It's wicked long and boring, but here's the executive summary:

The current global supply of several critical metals is insufficient to transition to a renewable energy system.

It's as simple as that. There will be no (full) transition to solar energy because there can BE no such transition.

Solar, wind, hydro are all fantastic niche solutions for specific, localized conditions. None of them are appropriate or even possible on a planetary scale of consumption.

It's fossil fuels or nuclear. Pick.
 
Seems like some folks have difficulty distinguishing among

i. the way the world currently is,
ii. the ways the world could probably become,
iii. the ways the world could be that are preferable, and
iv. what ii are also iii, and effective ways of getting from i to both ii and iii.
 
von_Bismarck said:
Seems like some folks have difficulty distinguishing among

i. the way the world currently is,
ii. the ways the world could probably become,
iii. the ways the world could be that are preferable, and
iv. what ii are also iii, and effective ways of getting from i to both ii and iii.
Click to expand...

More of a difference of opinion in "the ways the world could be that are preferable"

It's irrelevant anyway. Nobody (most especially including yourselves) will ever give up their creature comforts.
 
I wish it was true...

If the planet is getting warmer I think that could be a very good thing. Imagine if some of the coast areas like NYC and CA went under water. The earth needs a good cleansing. Looks like Obama doesn't think there is much risk of it reaching the east coast. Funny thing since he claims to believe we are in grave danger. Do you smell some hypocrisy? Well, again, it might be good if they all were underwater.
 
von_Bismarck said:
Seems like some folks have difficulty distinguishing among

i. the way the world currently is,
ii. the ways the world could probably become,
iii. the ways the world could be that are preferable, and
iv. what ii are also iii, and effective ways of getting from i to both ii and iii.
Click to expand...

Sure, maybe the "science" of alchemy will provide the rare earth elements required by converting Phrodeau's beach side strip mine sand entoute to the fantasy utopia of free energy to stave off his over-hyped alarmist view of impending mass human extinction.
 
gunthernehmen said:
Yeah, the sun does a stellar job charging those batteries at night.

The fact that you are talking about a $4k grid connected, battery backed system tells me you're full of it, or at the least have no comprehension of what you actually have.
Click to expand...

I'm not grid connected. I literally used the word prepper. I mean the house "grid". I can't remember what it's called because my whole house is literally just kinda rigged together. The AC thing.

And no, I have no comprehension of what anything I have is called. That's not how I roll. I'm not an electrician, I'm a hillbilly with a lot of cousins and no desire to pay some big-city power company anything So you know, the average solar panel consumer. But I don't need to know all them fancy words, I just gotta know how to hook it up, how to maintain it, and how it works.

I never said they charge at night. They charge during the day and you use the stored energy at night, or during snowy days or whatever. There's enough in the bank to last us about 48 hours in the winter. As I already explained, I found that out the lazy-ass way. So what that other guy was saying about, "You have to run a generator at night", you don't. That's simply not true. At night it pulls from the batteries. Then the next day you get enough to run the house and charge the batteries. Now, I am on top of a hill, so it might not work as well for somebody that can't get enough south facing sun, because you do need a full-exposure spot for your system. But I think most folks if they're in a partial shade area put them on the roof. Mine's just on a little wooden thing me and my cousin built a little bit more up the hill. If I'm getting enough in rural Appalachia in the middle of the Danial Boone National Forest, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find a spot where you can't get enough.

The battery bank is actually the most expensive part, and my house is actually pretty big, in the sense that it's not a tinyhouse like I wanted because I just kinda... kept building because I kept getting more people so I went over the 1K sq ft limit, so that's why my system was so much more expensive than what you're thinking of with the tiny house/RV kits. I know people are getting 12V kits for like $2K but that just wouldn't work for my situation. Everyone is different. I've got a deep freeze and shit. That just wouldn't work for me. If I had done that, I would have to run a generator at night because I wouldn't have enough to charge the bank coming in. So you do have to choose the best fit for your specific situation.

But come the situation me and mine'll have power. And food. And ammo if my brother would stop fucking wasting it all.
 
Conager said:
Sure, maybe the "science" of alchemy will provide the rare earth elements required by converting Phrodeau's beach side strip mine sand entoute to the fantasy utopia of free energy to stave off his over-hyped alarmist view of impending mass human extinction.
Click to expand...

It sure as hell ain't free. They ain't givin them sons-a-bitches away. It's a good chunk of change startup but then you own it. It's kind of like buying vs renting a car or house. You just own the thing that generates electricity because you bought it, rather than "renting" it every month from the power company.
 
gunthernehmen said:
The next time you're at the beach bring a lamp and bury the plug in the sand. I promise you, the light will not go on.

It isn't "just" the silica. But you know that, you're just playing stupid. Remarkably well, too.

Here's a link (https://www.metabolic.nl/publicatio...le-electricity-generation-in-the-netherlands/) to a study that talks about some of the OTHER requirements. It's wicked long and boring, but here's the executive summary:

The current global supply of several critical metals is insufficient to transition to a renewable energy system.

It's as simple as that. There will be no (full) transition to solar energy because there can BE no such transition.

Solar, wind, hydro are all fantastic niche solutions for specific, localized conditions. None of them are appropriate or even possible on a planetary scale of consumption.

It's fossil fuels or nuclear. Pick.
Click to expand...

Were that true, and it's not, nuclear. Like hand down? Nuclear energy is green energy. I don't know why it was presented here when green scientists are pulling for nuclear energy. They're even pissed at the Simpsons because apparently a good chunk of Americans don't trust nuclear energy because of the Simpsons.

But we could light up the entire US using a chunk of currently unused land in the middle of the desert with solar panels that we already have. Like it would not require new materials.
 
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