The Turkey- Syria thread

[colddiesel]

Turkey’s preferred solution for the Kurds bears a remarkable resemblance to their solution for the Armenians 100 years ago. Their problem is that the Kurds are phenomenally effective fighters- men women and children.

The Kurds main problem is that they are hopelessly divided in their own ranks along tribal/family lines. Against their old enemy Turkey they will be very effective- then when there is a lull in the fighting they will go back to killing each other.

 

[suurfer]

Am I the only one who's getting tired of the parallelism to the Armenian genocide?

These are entirely different situations:

As unacceptable and dangerous Turkey's invasion is, such comparisons are meant to stifle debate or alternative opinions.

 

[suurfer]

You Do know that Turkey is currently hosting 300.000 kurdish refugees from Syria, colddiesel.
How come they haven't killed them yet?

Their intent of ethnic cleansing is through population displacement.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Am I the only one who's getting tired of the parallelism to the Armenian genocide?

These are entirely different situations:
one was ethnic clensing within Turkey,
the other one a military intervention with stated intent of getting rid of PKK's offspring.

As unacceptable and dangerous Turkey's invasion is, such comparisons are meant to stifle debate or alternative opinions.

But screaming "GENOCIDE!!!" is how "progressive" folks let you know they're super serious about their feels for the topic.

Like the words racism, privilege and fascism none of them have EVER looked up what the word actually means.

 

[suurfer]

But screaming "GENOCIDE!!!" is how "progressive" folks let you know they're super serious about their feels for the topic.

Like the words racism, privilege and fascism none of them have EVER looked up what the word actually means.

lol you make me laugh... And you were so quick to post.


Given Turkey's history vis-à-vis kurds, letting loose turkish soldiers in mainly jurdish territories CAN lead to atrocities.
That's the worry.

But I doubt that Erdogan (as bad as he is) intends ethnic cleansing.

And let's not forget that those who virtue signal now contributed to the crisis.
--US by locating PKK at the border with Turkey
-- EU by asking Turkey to host millions of Syrian refugees, but without providing sufficient funding or assisting the talks re a safe zone.

 

[someoneyouknow]

But....BUTT.....BUTT BUSH!!!

The middle east was a utopian paradise until Bush!!!

Sean Penn said so on Twitter!!! That makes it a FACT!!
https://sebastianpage.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a62fff79970c0133ec3d43af970b-600wi

Under Saddam Hussein, women had equal rights to men, had access to any education they wanted, had access to birth control without issue, the country had one of the highest percentages of an educated population in the region (rivaling that of Israel; it was a crime not to send your kid to school when they reached the age of six; everyone got a free education including university, not to mention getting scholarships to study abroad), one of the highest medical standards in the region, not to mention sanitary systems for every village and town which, incidentally, also had at least one medical clinic.

While not a utopia, the Iraqis had freedoms rivaling that of the West and certainly far more than that of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, and Iran who to this day still haven't matched what Saddam gave his people.

Let us not forget this is what Iranian women looked like before the U.S overthrew their government:

https://i.imgur.com/EDkaS.jpg

https://imgur.com/gallery/9KTsv

 

[someoneyouknow]

Surprise, surprise, the Kurds are saying guarding ISIS prisoners is not their top priority.

So yeah, 12,000 terrorists could be released back into the wild thanks to the con artist.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50029540

 

[bellisarius]

So now we're going to canonize Saddam. Will wonders never cease?

 

[icanhelp1]

Surprise, surprise, the Kurds are saying guarding ISIS prisoners is not their top priority.

So yeah, 12,000 terrorists could be released back into the wild thanks to the con artist.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50029540

As usual, the EU failed their responsibilities and of course it’s Trump’s fault. So Obama wanted to close GITMO and you want to open one in Syria and we can pay for it. Another example of lefty loons gone wild.

 

[bellisarius]

So, when cries of "genocide" don't work, resort to extortion. Marvelous.

And just where are the Kurd's going to turn those ISIS folks loose? On themselves, the Turkish Army, or the Syrian Army? Not much of a threat there.

 

[someoneyouknow]

So now we're going to canonize Saddam. Will wonders never cease?

Yes, the Pope is considering making Saddam a Saint.

The wonder is you continuing to sound more stupid each time you open your mouth. Just when one thinks it can't get any worse, you disabuse us of that notion.

 

[beezzz]

https://s.smutty.com/media_smutty/s/h/a/m/p/shame85-mcwvy-c78e78.jpg

 

[beezzz]

Let us not forget this is what Iranian women looked like before the U.S overthrew their government:

https://i.imgur.com/EDkaS.jpg

https://imgur.com/gallery/9KTsv

this pic is from 1979

the US didnt overthrow the Iranian Gov

 

[BotanyBoy]

Under Saddam Hussein, women had equal rights to men, had access to any education they wanted, had access to birth control without issue, the country had one of the highest percentages of an educated population in the region (rivaling that of Israel; it was a crime not to send your kid to school when they reached the age of six; everyone got a free education including university, not to mention getting scholarships to study abroad), one of the highest medical standards in the region, not to mention sanitary systems for every village and town which, incidentally, also had at least one medical clinic.

FREE HEALTHCARE!!! FREEE EDUCATION!!! From the fucking dark ages.....I can see how such a thing would appeal to anti-American leftist.

Totally worth the mass murdering dictatorship, women being property of men, raw sewage flowing in the streets and old world diseases running rampant. (sounds like California and Chicago)

Sanitary systems for every village and town? Absolute fucking LIE.

And I love your "standards in the region" qualifier.....considering the region has standards.

While not a utopia, the Iraqis had freedoms rivaling that of the West

You've been chugging way too much authoritarian flavored Kool-Aid and have gone overboard delusional.

Let us not forget this is what Iranian women looked like before the U.S overthrew their government:

US didn't overthrow Iran.

You very clearly don't know what you're talking about, your idolization for islamo-fascist like Saddam and his psycho kids is glaring proof of that.

 

[suurfer]

Autonomous Administration of NE Syria versus PKK
A contradiction that I'd like to learn more about.

On the one hand we all root for kurds and a Kurdish autonomous region within Syria.

but PKK, a unanimously decreed terrorist organization, so close to the Turkish border? And armed and trained to fight (even if against ISIS) by Americans? Wtf?

Snd could the first be, or could have been possible without the latter?

 

[BotanyBoy]

On the one hand we all root for kurds and a Kurdish autonomous region within Syria.

No....

but PKK, a unanimously decreed terrorist organization, so close to the Turkish border? And armed and trained to fight (even if against ISIS) by Americans? Wtf?

Socialist we used to fight the fascist.....then left for the Turks to hammer

Snd could the first be, or could have been possible without the latter?

100%.....they were already there, we just taught them how to shoot worth a shit and some basic shit to keep themselves alive.

 

[dagdag]

1) Obama wanted Esad gone, Turkey joined in.

2) Obama flipped!!! Turkey stayed the course. Obama administration asked Russians to come and save Esad since they did not want to face the aftermath of Esad if he were to be removed from power!!! (Obama's National Security Advisor on the record on a documentary on PBS)
If we are not going to change the regime, and if the regime has no credible threat to Israel, why are we even there? To contain Iran against Israel through their proxies? Rhetorical question.

3) Trump wants to get the troops back home from those endless wars, and that is at least a good campaign promise.

4) Turkey is hosting 3.6 million Syrian refugees. Lebanon is hosting more than 1 million. There are about 800,000 refugees in Germany and Germans said no more by changing their votes and Merkel got a hit!!!

5) Turkey is not fighting Kurds, but Kurdish terrorists whom happens to be communists!!! There are millions of Kurds in Turkey and even in the ranks of the government (past president and ministers etc...) They have Kurdish speaking TV channels etc. Intermarriages between the Turks and Kurds, they are all mingled.

6) Turkey opened up its borders when Saddam was killing the Kurds. About half a million stayed in camps. And, they returned back to Iraq once there was a safe haven and no fly zone established for them!

7) Kurdish terrorists had been attacking Turkey from the Syrian side for a while killing civilians and it is only reasonable for Turks to defend themselves against those attacks. And, keeping the terrorists away with a safe zone seems to be doable.

8) Turkey stated that they would be holding ISIS prisoners (within whatever there in the safe zone) and also would be sending the foreign nationals to their prospective countries!!! Now that may be a problem since Europeans may not want them back!!!

Let Turkey do its own policing. Let Trump to get those troops back home!

 

[suurfer]

1) Obama wanted Esad gone, Turkey joined in.

2) Obama flipped!!! Turkey stayed the course. Obama administration asked Russians to come and save Esad since they did not want to face the aftermath of Esad if he were to be removed from power!!! (Obama's National Security Advisor on the record on a documentary on PBS)
If we are not going to change the regime, and if the regime has no credible threat to Israel, why are we even there? To contain Iran against Israel through their proxies? Rhetorical question.

This passage is a bit unclear (at least to me).
Could you or someone else please elaborate?

But hopefully, without turning it into a "Trump versus Obama" thing.
Two different points in time, two different situations in a highly complex region.

4) Turkey is hosting 3.6 million Syrian refugees. Lebanon is hosting more than 1 million. There are about 800,000 refugees in Germany and Germans said no more by changing their votes and Merkel got a hit!!!

5) Turkey is not fighting Kurds, but Kurdish terrorists whom happens to be communists!!! There are millions of Kurds in Turkey and even in the ranks of the government (past president and ministers etc...) They have Kurdish speaking TV channels etc. Intermarriages between the Turks and Kurds, they are all mingled.

6) Turkey opened up its borders when Saddam was killing the Kurds. About half a million stayed in camps. And, they returned back to Iraq once there was a safe haven and no fly zone established for them!

7) Kurdish terrorists had been attacking Turkey from the Syrian side for a while killing civilians and it is only reasonable for Turks to defend themselves against those attacks. And, keeping the terrorists away with a safe zone seems to be doable.

8) Turkey stated that they would be holding ISIS prisoners (within whatever there in the safe zone) and also would be sending the foreign nationals to their prospective countries!!! Now that may be a problem since Europeans may not want them back!!!

So nice to read a diversity of views on the GB.. Welcome!
I'm not a Turkey apologist, but one turns into one by default out of piss-off with the clearly self-serving ("Trump bad! Trump good!") massmedia narratives.

I had no idea that they hosted Kurdish refugees during the Sadam Hussein saga.
And apparently, they're currently hosting 300.000 from Syria too.
-- In saying that, I think that you're presenting a too rosy picture about Kurds in Turkey, the truth must be in the middle.

 

[icanhelp1]

FREE HEALTHCARE!!! FREEE EDUCATION!!! From the fucking dark ages.....I can see how such a thing would appeal to anti-American leftist.

Totally worth the mass murdering dictatorship, women being property of men, raw sewage flowing in the streets and old world diseases running rampant. (sounds like California and Chicago)

Sanitary systems for every village and town? Absolute fucking LIE.

And I love your "standards in the region" qualifier.....considering the region has standards.



You've been chugging way too much authoritarian flavored Kool-Aid and have gone overboard delusional.



US didn't overthrow Iran.

You very clearly don't know what you're talking about, your idolization for islamo-fascist like Saddam and his psycho kids is glaring proof of that.

I can't believe I just read that fucking swill from SYK. Talk about genocide, I'm sure Saddam and his sons had the best interest of the Kuwaiti people when he invaded. I guess he killed them by the thousands because he was putting their interest first. Some People are so incredibly ignorant it's literally jaw dropping. Lefty looney toons gone off the rails and heading for the moon.

 

[bellisarius]

1) Obama wanted Esad gone, Turkey joined in.

2) Obama flipped!!! Turkey stayed the course. Obama administration asked Russians to come and save Esad since they did not want to face the aftermath of Esad if he were to be removed from power!!! (Obama's National Security Advisor on the record on a documentary on PBS)
If we are not going to change the regime, and if the regime has no credible threat to Israel, why are we even there? To contain Iran against Israel through their proxies? Rhetorical question.

3) Trump wants to get the troops back home from those endless wars, and that is at least a good campaign promise.

4) Turkey is hosting 3.6 million Syrian refugees. Lebanon is hosting more than 1 million. There are about 800,000 refugees in Germany and Germans said no more by changing their votes and Merkel got a hit!!!

5) Turkey is not fighting Kurds, but Kurdish terrorists whom happens to be communists!!! There are millions of Kurds in Turkey and even in the ranks of the government (past president and ministers etc...) They have Kurdish speaking TV channels etc. Intermarriages between the Turks and Kurds, they are all mingled.

6) Turkey opened up its borders when Saddam was killing the Kurds. About half a million stayed in camps. And, they returned back to Iraq once there was a safe haven and no fly zone established for them!

7) Kurdish terrorists had been attacking Turkey from the Syrian side for a while killing civilians and it is only reasonable for Turks to defend themselves against those attacks. And, keeping the terrorists away with a safe zone seems to be doable.

8) Turkey stated that they would be holding ISIS prisoners (within whatever there in the safe zone) and also would be sending the foreign nationals to their prospective countries!!! Now that may be a problem since Europeans may not want them back!!!

Let Turkey do its own policing. Let Trump to get those troops back home!

What this points out is that it's not ALL the Kurd's. The press would lead you to believe that the Turks are out to exterminate an endangered specie. There are upwards of 35 million of them.

 

[suurfer]

Who are the Kurds?

I'm not too informed, so these concise clips helped me understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XOpQwzQ754
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv5-q_9fpro
Some excerpts:


DEMOGRAPHICS

Kurds are by religion sunni muslims, but they resisted Islamic invasion, and had to convert forcibly to Islam only after being defeated by Arabs. Much like Iranians, they are of indo-european origin and don't self-identify as arabs.

HISTORY OF KURDS

The first Kurdish province was created in 12th century.
Maps of Kurdistan resurfaced in 1919, after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
The treaty of Sèvres (1923) attempted to secure Kurdish autonomy, but it failed due to the opposition of Iran, Irak, Turkey and Syria. So the treaty of Lausanne (1923) excluded kurds.

PKK was created in 1978 in Turkey, and kurds' fight for independence cost many lives, but it was defeated in in 1998. It's now widely considered a terrorist organization.

A form of PKK is now in the NE Kurdish autonomous province of Syria.
Sadam killed many Kurds when they fought for independence; Turkey sheltered kurdish Iraqi refugees during that time. The Iraqi autonomous province of Kurdistan has been ever since quite stable.



___________________________


RE ROJAVA (NE SYRIAN SEMI-AUTONOMOUS KURDISH AREA)

Here comes the murky part:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava#Historical_background

It seems that PKK and other kurdish forces played a major role in Kurds' autonomy in 2012??
Will Rojava be able to maintain it's semi-independence after Turkey's invasion (even if motivated by PKK), and after the safe zones are filled with Syrian refugees?

 

[SpeareChucker]

No thread is ever safe from dick sizing contests.

On topic: I couldn’t care less about what goes on with Turkey/ Syria. Let the jokers kill each other.

That used to be the Democrat position on the topic.
Now it's, "How can Trump create so much bloodshed! The women! The children!"


"He must be stopped! He's a murderer!"

 

[someoneyouknow]

Remember how the con artist lied when he said the Kurds didn't help us in WWII, which is why he removed U.S. troops so he could get a better deal for his failing tower in Turkey?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e474457164ba81b80ea44373b7a0fa29/7a814d5cab6a6804-a5/s500x750/b5993eae96c6eac200fec4514b30c464be919b12.jpg

 

[SpeareChucker]

Someone found a meme...

 

[suurfer]

You guys are incorrigibly obsessed.
Every political thread inevitably turns into a pro/anti Trump battle.