3rd try at writing ~ all feed back is welcome

[ShaynMackenzie]

Hi all,

So, this is my third and last installment of this story. I hope I took all your advice and this one is much better than the first two. All constructive criticism is welcome.
I will be rewriting the first two to edit and expand them eventually. Working on the April Fools story right now.


Here is the link

https://literotica.com/s/an-unexpected-education-pt-03

 

[ElectricBlue]

I can't remember whether you said this chapter had already been submitted when I commented on the first part.

My main observation then was your tense shifting - this latest chapter is more consistently past tense and you've obviously taken more care to stay in the one tense. But that's caused you to stumble with your dialogue tense a bit. I'll explain:

"Oh my God!" She thought to herself "Desi was actually stroking his huge cock!"

Think about that for a moment - when Liz is actually thinking that thought, she's going to be in her own here and now. She's not going to be thinking in past tense, she's going to be thinking in present tense, so the sentence should read:

Oh my God!" she thought to herself, "Desi's actually stroking his huge cock!"

As a general rule, thoughts and speech are always going to be in present tense, coz that's how people speak, but your narrative is past tense:

"Oh my God," she said (past tense), "Desi's actually stroking his huge cock."

versus

"Oh my God," she says (present tense), "Desi's actually stroking his huge cock."

It's a bit confusing, but you'll soon figure it out - just write dialogue as you'd say it. Note also the lower case "she" - the dialogue is in fact one sentence with the speech tag dropped in the middle of it, so it's all the one sentence, no upper case is needed. In fact, you have several odd uses of capitals where they're not needed, lower case where there should be capitals, and commas omitted - see my corrected speech punctuation compared to your original.

Okay, that's done... But now you're doing my head in because you're still head hopping. A lot. One paragraph we're in Liz's head, the next paragraph we're in Theo's; whoa, we're now in Desi's. Too many points of view, shifting too quickly - the flow lurches all over the place. For a short piece like this, it's better to choose one character and tell the story from their point of view. Don't jump around so much, you'll make your readers sea-sick! It's usually best to narrate a fairly long section from one character's point of view, and then, if you must explore another character's pov, signify it either by a clear section break

* * * *

or make the transition very clear and explicit, so the reader knows whose head they are in.

These are all technical comments. I'm setting aside all the blushes and embarrassment from Liz when she's just come exquisitely, but she's all coy about being undressed - really? Kind of cute, but not terribly convincing. But then you write,

"Then, with a scandalous grin, she parted Liz's thighs exposing her pretty little slit.

which is so adorably perfect you're forgiven .

 

[ShaynMackenzie]

I can't remember whether you said this chapter had already been submitted when I commented on the first part.

My main observation then was your tense shifting - this latest chapter is more consistently past tense and you've obviously taken more care to stay in the one tense. But that's caused you to stumble with your dialogue tense a bit. I'll explain:

Think about that for a moment - when Liz is actually thinking that thought, she's going to be in her own here and now. She's not going to be thinking in past tense, she's going to be thinking in present tense, so the sentence should read:

As a general rule, thoughts and speech are always going to be in present tense, coz that's how people speak, but your narrative is past tense:

"Oh my God," she said (past tense), "Desi's actually stroking his huge cock."

versus

"Oh my God," she says (present tense), "Desi's actually stroking his huge cock."

It's a bit confusing, but you'll soon figure it out - just write dialogue as you'd say it. Note also the lower case "she" - the dialogue is in fact one sentence with the speech tag dropped in the middle of it, so it's all the one sentence, no upper case is needed. In fact, you have several odd uses of capitals where they're not needed, lower case where there should be capitals, and commas omitted - see my corrected speech punctuation compared to your original.

Okay, that's done... But now you're doing my head in because you're still head hopping. A lot. One paragraph we're in Liz's head, the next paragraph we're in Theo's; whoa, we're now in Desi's. Too many points of view, shifting too quickly - the flow lurches all over the place. For a short piece like this, it's better to choose one character and tell the story from their point of view. Don't jump around so much, you'll make your readers sea-sick! It's usually best to narrate a fairly long section from one character's point of view, and then, if you must explore another character's pov, signify it either by a clear section break

* * * *

or make the transition very clear and explicit, so the reader knows whose head they are in.

These are all technical comments. I'm setting aside all the blushes and embarrassment from Liz when she's just come exquisitely, but she's all coy about being undressed - really? Kind of cute, but not terribly convincing. But then you write, which is so adorably perfect you're forgiven .

Some really fantastic comments and as you can guess, I am still a work in progress. The issues with head hopping is my next beast I intend to slay. I started with tense. I have started my story for the April Fools contest and will be told mostly from the male characters pov. Head hopping is hard for me as I want to express a characters feelings. I will work on it Thank you for the example, I misunderstood the last time, I thought I could not switch tense in a story. The whole thing in one tense lol. Now I know it's ok just don't get crazy.

 

[Emirus]

write dialogue as you'd say it.

That’s a huge piece of advice from EB66 contained in six words. After you’ve finished a dialogue section read it out loud as if it was the characters actually having a conversation. You’ll see whether or not your dialogue sucks.

 

[ShaynMackenzie]

That’s a huge piece of advice from EB66 contained in six words. After you’ve finished a dialogue section read it out loud as if it was the characters actually having a conversation. You’ll see whether or not your dialogue sucks.

Yeah, I am trying to grow from the feedback. I do hope the dialogue doesn't suck, just my use of tense is needing work

 

[ShaynMackenzie]

OK, so as I'm writing my next story I have found that a few things still truly confuse me. i.e tense and pov

so, I will ask a few direct questions...

First, if you are navigating PoV and say your writing out a scene where two characters are interacting

example:

Once the panties were down her legs, he simply commanded her, “step out of them.”

She stepped out of them as a crimson blush colored her face, “yes Sir.”

He never really imagined this would be so easy, she would be so compliant. Again, it made him wonder, was there a secret yearning in her or had the blindfold really been that powerful.

in the example does the PoV change from him to her and back to him, or does it simply stay with him as we're not in her head at all? Basically, I'm asking if someone is doing something does that change Pov or do I need to have them thinking to change it

Second, you confused me a bit with tense in reference to dialogue. Is it suppose to be present in thoughts and speech in "" and everything else past tense, if that is the tense I'm writing the story in.

sorry if i'm being a bother, I have spent the better part of the day trying to get google to show me the way, but the stuff I have read just made me more confused.
I am trying to learn things without totally depending on an editor to make me a better writer

Thanks in advance for any and all help

 

[ElectricBlue]

Okay, in this extract, we are in his pov, as you say, "He never really imagined..." That is, your narrator is revealing what's in his head. Her thoughts are not revealed. Her actions are, in effect, being described as seen by him, so it's his point of view.

You are consistently using past tense, so all good.

Your dialogue, minimal as it is, is also correct tense. You would say, "Janey, step out of them," but you wouldn't say, "Janey, stepped out of them." After the command, your narrator might narrate: Janey stepped out of her panties.

Your speech punctuation is not quite correct.

Once the panties were down her legs, he simply commanded her, “step out of them.”

She stepped out of them as a crimson blush colored her face, “yes Sir.”

He never really imagined this would be so easy, she would be so compliant. Again, it made him wonder, was there a secret yearning in her or had the blindfold really been that powerful.

should read:

Once the panties were down her legs he commanded her, “Step out of them.” [tighter sentence structure, upper case S]

She stepped out of them as a crimson blush colored her face, “Yes, Sir.” [Upper case Y, plus a comma]

He never really imagined this would be so easy, that she would be so compliant. ['that' added] Again, it made him wonder, was there a secret yearning in her or had the blindfold really been that powerful? [It's a question]

 

[ShaynMackenzie]

electric,

Thanks for the info. It's very helpful. the missing "that" was because I had them and took them out since I use it a lot. Good to know I can use it when I think it works. The capital letters are still messing with me too as I need to figure out when the sentence is continuing and when I need to use one since the words in the quotes make a new sentence.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[ElectricBlue]

"With regard to punctuating speech, what you have to do," EB said, "is figure out if the words spoken are one continuous sentence, interrupted by a speech tag. If so, you punctuate as I've done here."

Janey added, "The thing to remember is that the beginning of a spoken sentence always has a capital because it's a complete spoken sentence, regardless of the speech tag." She paused. "At least, that's how it's been explained to me."

Shayn replied, "This is great, thank you so much, guys. I get it now."

"Good for you," they both said, smiling as they turned the page.

"Do you think Shayn really gets it?" Janey asked.

"I think so," replied EB. "But...

"We'll just hold off for now, explaining how speech marks are dropped if speech continues across two paragraphs, like here."

"Wait," laughed Janey, "you just showed that happening."

"Yes, I snuck it in."

"Clever you."

"And another thing, you don't always need a speech tag."

"Except where the reader might get lost," Janey clarified.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm more tolerant of shifting POV than EB is. I've pushed the boundaries on that in some stories, resulting in what some would call unacceptable head-hopping, but in erotica sometimes you really want to narrate an erotic scene between two people and capture both of their perspectives. It's tricky. I guess the best functioning rule is to try to do it as little as you need to for the scene. Ask yourself whether the scene really must be told from two points of view. And, make sure it's very clear when you do make a shift.

Read EB's sample dialogue snippet very carefully. It's a good illustration of most of the basic rules about writing dialogue.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm more tolerant of shifting POV than EB is. I've pushed the boundaries on that in some stories, resulting in what some would call unacceptable head-hopping, but in erotica sometimes you really want to narrate an erotic scene between two people and capture both of their perspectives. It's tricky. I guess the best functioning rule is to try to do it as little as you need to for the scene. Ask yourself whether the scene really must be told from two points of view. And, make sure it's very clear when you do make a shift.

Read EB's sample dialogue snippet very carefully. It's a good illustration of most of the basic rules about writing dialogue.

That's coz you can't tell one penguin from another, most days.


Simon's mom thought he was amazing, such a handsome boy.

"Wait, Mom," his sister Janey said, thinking, yes, he certainly was a stud muffin.



Okay, I guess head-hopping does work .

 

[ShaynMackenzie]

Thanks guys,

You all are being great. I think I will practice with the rules before I start breaking them. All the help is greatly appreciated. I am trying to work it all into my next story. I have noticed that my scores are reflecting the changes I have made with each story. part 1 was a 4.12, part 2 came in at 4.25 and part 3 a great 4.64. Guess grammar really does matter when you write