Feminist porn?

[KimGordon67]

I just read this piece this morning, and thought it kind of interesting, although I'm not sure I agree with everything in there.
I have real problems finding porn I actually like, for a lot of the reasons that are discussed in this article, which fundamentally boil down to the fact that the women just don't seem to be enjoying themselves (or even acting as though they're enjoying themselves). In the end, I just stopped watching it because it was so disappointing.

 

[dashie33]

I'm not a big porn-person, but I love stuff with a female-centric PoV (IFeelMyself, etc).

 

[Carnevil9]

There were several recent posts in the "Go-to videos" thread with two women masturbating together. They seemed to be enjoying themselves.

 

[LadyJS]

An interesting article, thanks for the link KG. I'm not a fan of porn; I realize I'm probably in the minority on Lit, but I'm fine with that.

One thing the article said:

A lot of pornography is proudly misogynistic.

I believe the vast majority, not just "a lot", is misogynistic and endorses patriarchy. Porn is made for the male viewer to to satisfy inadequacies and/or fulfill fantasies they can't experience in real life.

I get that women watch porn, too, but most of what they watch was made for a male audience because they're the biggest customers for it. Women aren't considered outside of being participants in the finished product.

I take more of a RadFem view of porn which is why I agree with Andrea Dworkin's view on porn. Just my two cents worth.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/d2d0a09e9218525b5d652cef7a52aad6/tumblr_pnrbsd6p8B1x4g3bno1_540.jpg

 

[jaF0]

Problem is, many don't remember the better stuff from the 80s. They see today's junk that's all 'action' and no story. Try 'Beverly Hills Wives' with Amber Lynn.

 

[PleasePeesMe]

Then there's this

https://www.txxx.com/videos/8321323/les-milf-tastes-latina/?promo=11914

 

[KimGordon67]

An interesting article, thanks for the link KG. I'm not a fan of porn; I realize I'm probably in the minority on Lit, but I'm fine with that.

One thing the article said:



I believe the vast majority, not just "a lot", is misogynistic and endorses patriarchy. Porn is made for the male viewer to to satisfy inadequacies and/or fulfill fantasies they can't experience in real life.

I get that women watch porn, too, but most of what they watch was made for a male audience because they're the biggest customers for it. Women aren't considered outside of being participants in the finished product.

I take more of a RadFem view of porn which is why I agree with Andrea Dworkin's view on porn. Just my two cents worth.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/d2d0a09e9218525b5d652cef7a52aad6/tumblr_pnrbsd6p8B1x4g3bno1_540.jpg

I don't think porn HAS to reinforced patriarchal power structures though, and I don't think that its only real purpose is to satisfy inadequacies. I use quite a lot of photographic porn (as opposed to videos) that, for some reason, often seems to be more 'feminist' (for what of a better word) than video. And I find it useful in an inspirational sense ('that looks interesting ... we should give it a go'), and for more 'immediate' purposes, like 'that's hot, now I'm hot&bothered, let's do something about that'.

I have seen some videos in which everyone actually looks like they're having fun - my favourite was a mmf threesome (unfortunately feature James Deen, who turned out to be an arse), that was really super focused on the women enjoying herself, instead of just being used for the men to essential masturbate with. She either actually came more than once, or was extremely good act performing an actual orgasm (as opposed to 'porn cumming', which resembles no actual orgasm I've ever had).

 

[KimGordon67]

There were several recent posts in the "Go-to videos" thread with two women masturbating together. They seemed to be enjoying themselves.

... but it should be possible to have porn in which women enjoy themselves that involves men.

 

[KimGordon67]

https://www.txxx.com/videos/8321323/les-milf-tastes-latina/?promo=11914

... but it should be possible for porn to show women enjoying themselves with men involved. I'm straight, and I generally want to watch straight porn. (Actually, I do find some guy-on-guy stuff hot ... )

 

[KimGordon67]

Problem is, many don't remember the better stuff from the 80s. They see today's junk that's all 'action' and no story. Try 'Beverly Hills Wives' with Amber Lynn.

I'm not sure that story is what I'm looking for though ... just women actually enjoying themselves (or at least doing a passable job of acting as though they're enjoying themselves) doing something that I could imagine enjoying too.
It doesn't seem like such a big ask.

 

[FL30]

There is some porn out there that was made specifically for women.

It was created by and directed by a women. In fact, she had been a porn actress but had switched to being behind the camera, instead of in front of it.

I have forgotten the director's / creators name but I bet you could find it if you googled it.

 

[jaF0]

^^ Nina Hartley's one, but there are several others.

 

[KimGordon67]

There is some porn out there that was made specifically for women.

It was created by and directed by a women. In fact, she had been a porn actress but had switched to being behind the camera, instead of in front of it.

I have forgotten the director's / creators name but I bet you could find it if you googled it.

Most of it isn't free ... and I'm pretty cheap. PornHub tends to be my goto, or at least was when I watched porn. I also quite like sharing it with other people - me and an online 'friend' used to watch things together (well, simultaneously, not 'together'), which was a lot of fun.

 

[PWilton]

Porn Vs. Erotica

Most of it isn't free ... and I'm pretty cheap. PornHub tends to be my goto, or at least was when I watched porn. I also quite like sharing it with other people - me and an online 'friend' used to watch things together (well, simultaneously, not 'together'), which was a lot of fun.

Does it help to refer to it as 'erotica' instead of 'porn'? Or just sidestepping the issue? I often bring that up in discussions like this.

I am also 'cheap'. I don't think I have used a pay site for many a year. Since Tumblr self-destructed, I have found several free sources for images which have a wide variety of porn/erotica and very satisfying. I try to post only what I consider to be 'quality' erotica.

And many of the Lit stories seem to be 'friendly' to both sides of the gender aisle.

Not sure what point I am making, but I don't feel misogynistic when I view or read that material.

 

[KimGordon67]

Does it help to refer to it as 'erotica' instead of 'porn'? Or just sidestepping the issue? I often bring that up in discussions like this.

I am also 'cheap'. I don't think I have used a pay site for many a year. Since Tumblr self-destructed, I have found several free sources for images which have a wide variety of porn/erotica and very satisfying. I try to post only what I consider to be 'quality' erotica.

And many of the Lit stories seem to be 'friendly' to both sides of the gender aisle.

Not sure what point I am making, but I don't feel misogynistic when I view or read that material.

I'm never really sure what the supposed difference is between erotica and porn - they seem to be term used to say 'this stuff is ok, but I don't like that stuff'.

I think a lot of guys don't feel misogynistic even when they watch mainstream porn, but there's just no point of entry (sorry, terrible and unintended pun) for women at all.

 

[jaF0]

I'm never really sure what the supposed difference is between erotica and porn -

Fascinating.

 

[PWilton]

Erotica Vs. Porn

I'm never really sure what the supposed difference is between erotica and porn - they seem to be term used to say 'this stuff is ok, but I don't like that stuff'.

I think a lot of guys don't feel misogynistic even when they watch mainstream porn, but there's just no point of entry (sorry, terrible and unintended pun) for women at all.

I have a rather crude definition:

Erotica is Prime Rib.
Porn is Hamburger.
----------------------
Kim, there are tons of images, stories and videos that cater to woman-to-woman sexual interactions. Lesbian, etc. Yes, many of those are artificial or derivative, but some of it is beautiful (to my eye anyway). That might be that 'point of entry' you referred to?

 

[KimGordon67]

I have a rather crude definition:

Erotica is Prime Rib.
Porn is Hamburger.
----------------------
Kim, there are tons of images, stories and videos that cater to woman-to-woman sexual interactions. Lesbian, etc. Yes, many of those are artificial or derivative, but some of it is beautiful (to my eye anyway). That might be that 'point of entry' you referred to?

Not really ... I just want hetero porn in which the woman isn't just there to serve a purpose for the man. As the article I linked to said, good actual sex isn't like that - I don't see why porn can't be. I don't even necessarily want 'beautiful' - I like a fair bit of rough sex, anal, etc, and I'd happily watch porn along those lines if it didn't seem to completely exclude my perspective or enjoyment.

It's true that the writing on Lit is usually pretty good in that respect, so clearly it's possible ... is it just that there isn't a big enough audience for that sort of stuff at a commercial level?

 

[Asian_Flower]

Watching porn is a rarity for me and I only ever do it with my husband. I really dont enjoy the manufactured pron stuff, its just soooo fake. If and when we do watch we search for the homemade videos. Much more realistic and appeals to my naughty voyeuristic side as well

 

[LupusDei]

Now, this a late night rant that doesn't necessary make a lick of sense. You're forewarned.

I have contemplated about similar issues, as I have quite specific taste and mostly enjoy static images as a result.

And while I could go on in kink level specifics about the supposedly ideal image (with wouldn't turn out true anyway), the point is that compatible video are possible and exist, but are rare for no reason readily apparent to me. Because it is really simple stuff, actually, natural and so on.

Absolutely most fucking videos I find immensely boring. Well, I find most long sex descriptions in Lit stories boring too... But yes, the underlying issue might be the artificial nature of it. And a whole lot of amateur porn is ruined for me by those amateurs trying to imitate what they think porn should look like.

So, there exist some "porn culture" and as any culture it is self regulating, self driving and self imitating. That far it is all actually normal, but the big question is: what steers the core of that culture? And the answer is, like we that or not, but of course, MONEY.

Without further disclaimers, here comes the shocking revelation: 'normal' people don't pay for porn. At least, people with 'natural' and 'plain' tastes don't pay for porn enough. People who pay most are the ones that order the content. It is self inducing problem, in theory clusters of different content should arise, similar content attracting similar tastes.

But I suspect there are specific tastes, perhaps already ingrained in the existing porn culture itself, that out-pay everything else so heavily it require dedication to not cater to that crowd. With is not majority, not even necessarily plurality, just the most profitable group both by the total value and ease of service, just a plain income per client. Because it is actually easier to service fever coherent clients that throw bucks by packs on you, than huge diverse crowds that scrimp pennies.

You probably all know pay-to-win online games, at least in some passing about existence of such. There's a similar problem. In fact, spare for few notable exceptions, pay-to-play games die out, or try very hard to become pay-to-win so that general populations doesn't notice... impossible of course, unless there's hard limits, but not having hard limits is the point.

Because so called 'whales' exist. Whales are players that may or may not care to actually play the game as such but who care a lot about winning, even if they clearly buy their perceived win. And we talk about obscenely absurd sums there, hundreds and even thousands per month per player. Yes, in games upwards of 80% of population enjoy for free and 80% of paying players spend less that 20$ a month.

Well, in game world you can't turn away the cheap crowd, really, because the whales enjoyment and revenue you can gather from each of them is quite directly proportional to the size of the total population, they need the crowd to dominate upon, the perceived statistics are important.

In case of porn whales it may be even worse.

 

[KimGordon67]

Watching porn is a rarity for me and I only ever do it with my husband. I really dont enjoy the manufactured pron stuff, its just soooo fake. If and when we do watch we search for the homemade videos. Much more realistic and appeals to my naughty voyeuristic side as well

But the socks! And the dirty laundry that's still on the sofa!

 

[SquidProQuo]

I'll read the article soon and reply in a next post. Personally, as a woman - I am a feminist and super socially liberal except for like one political issue. Porn is pretty fake in general, from what I have always gathered. It's pretty formulaic to be honest and caters to fantasy, not reality. That's why I tend to watch softcore porn anyway, even if that's "fake"- because all porn is fake period. I like the cheesy plotlines and when there's dirty talk type dialogue during sex. Hence why I like Sexy Urban Legends and Seven Lives Xposed. With those two series for softcore, the sex is more realistic than average. If I ever watch hardcore, I prefer vintage European stuff, like from the 90s. I feel like they put more effort into plot and had better production value. Even if I can't understand what they are saying, I just prefer the aesthetic. Semi-relatedly, I listen to foreign music all the time too. I like having context to my porn. That's the appeal of written erotica for me. I also like audio erotica too.

 

[liqueur]

I confess I haven't read the whole thread, or the whole article. Can't seem to sit still long enough to do either, this morning.

That said, some random thoughts:

Count me as one more who does not enjoy porn,and rarely watches it— that is, assuming the modern equivalency porn = video. Written porn/erotica is a very different story, as is, as you call it, photographic porn. (Take a look at my blog for some of the latter; it's a pretty nice collection}

The old complaint, as the article notes, is that "porn objectifies women." But it occurs to me that porn objectifies all its characters, regardless of gender. So the 'objectification' argument needs to be viewed as a separate issue from the misogyny argument— which in many, maybe the majority, of cases is very real.

The 'women enjoying themselves' question: it's been decades since I saw any of it, so my opinion now might be at odds with my more naive opinion of the past— but I remember Tina Russell (late 60s–early 70s) as being both a good actress and as enjoying what she did very much. She (like me) was a product of the 60s, of free love and the hippie movement and all the rest, and porn was a far cry from the big business it is now. For a nice, pretty, sweet-looking, and educated girl like her, making porn was a transgressive, if not downright subversive, act, and I'm sure that fact flavored both her attitudes and her enjoyment.

https://cdn03.bdsmlr.com/uploads/photos/2019/01/363296/bdsmlr-363296-6BIlRD9U1B.jpg
https://cdn03.bdsmlr.com/uploads/photos/2019/01/363296/bdsmlr-363296-alebqjZPpj.jpg

Tina Russell with her photographer husband John Sanderson​

 

[glBock]

good porn vs.bad porn

IMHO, what y'all are trying to get a handle on in this thread turns out a matter of individual opinion and taste. As I understand it, you aim to work out the difference between watchable porn that turns one on, and unwatchable porn, which does not.

The way I see it personally, in good porn videos or pictures, women are portrayed who differ from the norm; it's as simple as that. The norm requires "properness" from women, while deviating from the norm means women acting hornier or "hungrier" than usual. To me this cannot be shown any other way than thru a story, which evolves. And here's where bad porn fucks up usually. When a pornvid begins with a woman already engaged in sex, it can never become a good one.

IMHO a horny woman cannot debase herself when she acts out her horniness, quite the contrary. And exactly how she acts, leads to the difference between bad and good. You can also say between plump and sophisticated.

Now granted, when a woman looks highly spectacular, like Alia Janine for instance, she needs not much sophistication; simply her facial expressions, in combination with her spectacular figure will do the trick. Very different from ordinary-looking women; here we need sophistication definitely. What gets me every time is a display of NEED. Highly critical women may argue that the need some women display in porvids is unrealistic. Maybe it is to a woman, but when a man like me looks at a woman who seems needy, he will get excited. Simply because women they usually meet DO NOT display their need openly, or simply just don't have any.

Of course it works best, when a need develops gradually throughout the plot; makes it far more realistic this way. I remember a video that takes place in a French lingerie store, pretty bad video quality actually, and it takes forever until she becomes aware of any needs she has, or makes her needs clear to the two men working at the store. But once that happens, the video becomes interesting. For me, anyway.

And then "politically correct" videos do even star any men at all; I find women masturbating by themselves, or two or three of them getting together get across the same message to me: here is a woman, or here are several of them, who possess a strong sexuality, and who are not afraid to let it "hang out", and who go – more or less openly – for getting their sexuality responded to, or who satisfy it by themselves.

Anyway, those were my two cents worth on the subject.

 

[Scareltt]

Wow.. that’s a great piece..

I just read this piece this morning, and thought it kind of interesting, although I'm not sure I agree with everything in there.
I have real problems finding porn I actually like, for a lot of the reasons that are discussed in this article, which fundamentally boil down to the fact that the women just don't seem to be enjoying themselves (or even acting as though they're enjoying themselves). In the end, I just stopped watching it because it was so disappointing.

That’s a lot to think about. I’m not a big porn person. I do love the written word, or even “good smut” on audio. However I might be willing to pay for the right type of porn. It would need to be produced by women for women. I would need a type of story line, and I’m not sure what else..